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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: BrazosDesigns on August 06, 2017, 07:48:33 PM
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Hi fellow printers,
I started off a couple of years ago with an Epson 1430, added a cis, and then purchased the 'hybrid screen ink' from inkjetcarts.us
https://store.inkjetcarts.us/screen-positive-black-hybrid-ink-p4487.aspx
Prints were good.
About a year ago I was able to purchase a used Epson 4800 for about $350. After a lot of head cleanings and getting it all working, I set it up for 200ml refillable cartridges with 1 black channel with the 'hybrid screen ink' and the other 7 with clear cleaning solution and moved to a 17" roll film. I haven't used the 1430 again for screens until just recently with the 4800 had a clog and and I was in a bind. (working fine now).
The 1430 with the screen positive ink listed above printed darker on the same film than the 4800 with the same ink. I print the 4800 with finest detail, high speed off, edge smoothing, and highest print features, but realized it wasn't as dark as the 1430 and that some of my fine detail issues may be because of the film isn't printed as opaque as needed.
Does anyone have any special setting recommendations to make it print really dark? Maybe my films are dark enough, but I realized recently I need to increase my exposure time on my fluorescent unit and darker films may help with edge definitions.
I use Corel Draw 8 and print regular separations straight off that, and for anything with an underbase or chokes/etc I use SimpleSeps 4.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Darren
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You need to get a RIP. FilmMaker is probably your best choice.
Pierre
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Oh yes, get a RIP, and maybe work on upgrading your light source if you can.
Steve
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the 4800 is a huge improvement over the 1430. but yes, settings at default, the 1430 will put more ink down. 4800 requires - right ink. and rip.
and yes, upgrade that flo unit ASAP. LED is an option. used MH units are always falling out the market as more people go to LED. they are mostly pretty easy to get back in factory spec.
there are inks that say they are UV blocking and ARE NOT.
it's not worth not printing with a known to be good option. chromaline accuink.
https://www.chromaline.com/product/accuink/ (https://www.chromaline.com/product/accuink/)
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Pierre Do you prefer Filmaker to Accurip?
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You need to get a RIP. FilmMaker is probably your best choice.
Pierre
.... if you want to try Filmmaker, to see how much it improves the ink density..... you can download the full test version, free for 30 days .
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Pierre Do you prefer Filmaker to Accurip?
It has been a while since I did the head to head comparison, but FM had much cleaner output and is more customizeable. I still hear ppl bringing up issues that FM does not have, so in my eyes FM is better. It was much better few years back.
pierre
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if buying, pick it up from Scott Fresner, he runs a banner on the top. CadLink has no support (for all practical purposes) and Scott knows that RIP inside out and will take care of you.
pierre
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I thought SimpleSeps 4 would be a good sep and rip program, but everyone is recommending others.
I do have an older copy of Wasatch Softrip (6.0) that I got with the printer, but it won't work on windows 10. I can upgrade to the newest version for $249 (or $299?). Would this be a good rip program and help make dark films? What does Wasatch Softrip do and what is it really good for?
Thanks,
Darren
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I thought SimpleSeps 4 would be a good sep and rip program, but everyone is recommending others.
I do have an older copy of Wasatch Softrip (6.0) that I got with the printer, but it won't work on windows 10. I can upgrade to the newest version for $249 (or $299?). Would this be a good rip program and help make dark films? What does Wasatch Softrip do and what is it really good for?
Thanks,
Darren
I am not at all familiar with the program, but does it include settings for ink deposit?
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Not sure as I can't get it to load until I pay for an upgrade :-( I don't want to fork over $250-$300 if it isn't going to be worth it. Thanks for the reply.
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OK I'm not understanding! I'm actually looking into purchasing SimpleSeps Smart RIP 4.0 and what I'm reading is that it's a Rip and Separation Software. So why is everyone saying he needs a Rip, am I not understanding what this software is??
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Go back to my post a couple of posts above. It may be a separation program with a RIP, but that RIP may not also have the ability to override the printer settings for control of ink deposit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_image_processor
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtKD0upuJw&list=PL5-TSr51OI-7oFNvqPXqEAn404Oe8YceV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtKD0upuJw&list=PL5-TSr51OI-7oFNvqPXqEAn404Oe8YceV)
from the looks of this video it looks like a very dark button and rich black button so maybe no way to actually apply a setting or amount of ink manually.
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though I'm not familiar with SimpleSeps, a lot of sep programs will RIP the image into halftones for you by using an action to convert each channel to bitmap mode in Photoshop, where you can set the line count, dot shape, and angle so you can send each channel separately to the printer, where as RIP like Filmaker and AccuRIP actually control the printer, and I THINK does a better job. But SimpleSeps might be different, I don't know. For most of us, a stand alone RIP runs the printer and is preferable. Of course, it does depend on your budget too.
Steve
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Rips and programs only control what is printed on the film. If you want dark images.. get ink with a high Dmax value and UV resistance.
https://www.chromaline.com/product/accuink/ (https://www.chromaline.com/product/accuink/)
Another option.
http://www.ink2image.com/screenseparation.html (http://www.ink2image.com/screenseparation.html)
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I think a RIP do more, it take control of the printhead parameters that the standard epson driver can not make.
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Wasatch RIP is a very good RIP. It has many more controls than I have found in other rips. To get darker images you can modifiy the pico liter dots that the inkjets print with. So if you have a 7.0pl dot, going up to 12 will darken your image nicely. I can also pre-curve the film output so tonal values read correctly, or linearize it with common transmissive densitometers, so that I can get the tonals correct. It also has a second curve function after the intitial to modify tonal output for dot gain on press (an elusive target due to different squeegees and set up, but none the less you can modify within Wasatch RIP and save unique curves. For example the press curves for a low priced open end could be totally different than a 24 singles fine face shirt. It also has a multitude of dot shapes, line out put, etc. It can power 4 film printers at once with good CPU and memory. It allows for nesting of images to maximize film usage. You can set up multiple printers with their own curves and dot shapes. You could have 4 4800's and each will have it's own quirks of output that need to be controlled to get accurate tonal values. You can save each printer set up with curves, dot shape, resolution, image darkness etc. That way all printers can be linearized uniquely and outputs will match. (However use same printer for replacing film on a previously output job. Registration can be affected depending on age of printer and roll tension.) In the curve function there are unique curve functions already built in like 'more contrast' and other curves that can improve the printed images. Especially useful on darks. One of the really unique features I like is Hybrid output of Stochaistic and halftones on the same film. You can roll off halftones below 20 or a percentage of your choosing and convert to stochaistic dots, helps with Vignette moire. Nothing wrong with other RIP's mentioned here, but if you are after a RIP with tons of control over film output, Wasatch is a great choice.
Al
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Wasatch RIP is a very good RIP. It has many more controls than I have found in other rips. To get darker images you can modifiy the pico liter dots that the inkjets print with. So if you have a 7.0pl dot, going up to 12 will darken your image nicely. I can also pre-curve the film output so tonal values read correctly, or linearize it with common transmissive densitometers, so that I can get the tonals correct. It also has a second curve function after the intitial to modify tonal output for dot gain on press (an elusive target due to different squeegees and set up, but none the less you can modify within Wasatch RIP and save unique curves. For example the press curves for a low priced open end could be totally different than a 24 singles fine face shirt. It also has a multitude of dot shapes, line out put, etc. It can power 4 film printers at once with good CPU and memory. It allows for nesting of images to maximize film usage. You can set up multiple printers with their own curves and dot shapes. You could have 4 4800's and each will have it's own quirks of output that need to be controlled to get accurate tonal values. You can save each printer set up with curves, dot shape, resolution, image darkness etc. That way all printers can be linearized uniquely and outputs will match. (However use same printer for replacing film on a previously output job. Registration can be affected depending on age of printer and roll tension.) In the curve function there are unique curve functions already built in like 'more contrast' and other curves that can improve the printed images. Especially useful on darks. One of the really unique features I like is Hybrid output of Stochaistic and halftones on the same film. You can roll off halftones below 20 or a percentage of your choosing and convert to stochaistic dots, helps with Vignette moire. Nothing wrong with other RIP's mentioned here, but if you are after a RIP with tons of control over film output, Wasatch is a great choice.
Al
And that should straighten us all out, thank you Al. I think a lot of folks who are newer can get misled when talking about RIP's (that control the printer) vs. Photoshop RIPping a Grayscale image to a Bitmap half-tone. Once an image is converted to a bitmap halftone, it's a spot color, and the printer prints it just like it's a line of black text, it doesn't do anything other than map out where the ink goes of the film, as opposed to processing the grayscale and applying linearization.
Steve
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The cadlink RIP i have used since re-branded of Scott Fressners since 4.5 version or their abouts.
It has where its ask you to print a sample and tell it which 1 is darker. I have always used 2 blacks and rest cleaning fluids. I got 12 years out of my 4800. I am using it on my T3270 with the XL version. The XL and the std versions has curves and which locations has the black. I have little problems with with it all. Usually it art. Either Scotts version of cadlink or cadlink is one of the best in my opinion. Not a fan of accurip. I use http://www.filmdirectonline.com/ (http://www.filmdirectonline.com/) for my ink and have good density. Pierre can attest to that. I had him help me linearize my setup. Just a lot cheaper than Wasatch.
Shane
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I have been using the open source Gutenprint / CUPS driver for my Epson 7600, which allows you to control the ink deposit very well. Best part is it is free, downside is it only runs on a Mac. You do have to generate your own halftones. It also seemed to take a lot of fiddling at first to get the results I was looking for, which is typical for open source.
I actually ended up going that route when my Photoscript Rip petered out on my old epson 3000. The word was that it was the print heads and you just had to get a new printer, but the Gutenprint driver didn't have this issue. Just have to be careful not to dump too much ink on the film.
http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/)