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Direct to Garment => DTG - General => Topic started by: Fleetee on October 17, 2018, 08:45:18 AM
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I am doing some DTG research on the side. Any videos, blogs, articles, or anything at all that you guys can recommend to someone as new as me? What made you make your decision on which DTG printer to purchase, what are the important things I should REALLY be considering.
Pretty much, what would you have told yourself when you first started looking into DTG with the knowledge you have now?
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Don't just look at machine costs, which is what a lot of people focus on and that is a mistake.
You have to consider:
Machine Costs
Ink Costs
Maintenance Costs/Time involved to complete.
Actual print quality
Print speed
Availability of support
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Look at the hidden costs....like maintenance. I think M&R has the best maintenance system and their inks are about the cheapest.
I wouldn't go with the Epson, I think it's slightly above consumer grade. I also wouldn't buy the previous gen Brother, the GT-3 series. The white ink maintenance will about kill you.
I've heard good things about the new Brother GTX, but I haven't seen one.
If I was buying one now, I would probably go M&R. But I would also check out the Brother. The Anajet has come a long way as well.
I would avoid any sort of modified Epson printer.
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I agree. Absolutely stay way from epson based machines. Heard a zillion stories.
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We got one of the new Epson 2100 in the shop about a month ago and so far so good. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but it's what we ended up with and it's working well. I would definitely stay away from any of the Epson mods though. We were using two of those before this upgrade and had constant issues. Ink is cheaper than brother, but still not "bulk" rates. At our volume though (hundreds of prints a day) we needed cheap redundancy and the epson fit the bill for now (we will likely be getting 3 to 5 more once we are sure it works for our needs). I have to admit we were definitely scared away from the m&r being discontinued even though i know they will continue to support it for a while...
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We got one of the new Epson 2100 in the shop about a month ago and so far so good. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but it's what we ended up with and it's working well. I would definitely stay away from any of the Epson mods though. We were using two of those before this upgrade and had constant issues. Ink is cheaper than brother, but still not "bulk" rates. At our volume though (hundreds of prints a day) we needed cheap redundancy and the epson fit the bill for now (we will likely be getting 3 to 5 more once we are sure it works for our needs). I have to admit we were definitely scared away from the m&r being discontinued even though i know they will continue to support it for a while...
Where did you hear it was being discontinued? Rich said it wasn't and that even if it was being discontinued they would support it for at least 7 years.
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We got one of the new Epson 2100 in the shop about a month ago and so far so good. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but it's what we ended up with and it's working well. I would definitely stay away from any of the Epson mods though. We were using two of those before this upgrade and had constant issues. Ink is cheaper than brother, but still not "bulk" rates. At our volume though (hundreds of prints a day) we needed cheap redundancy and the epson fit the bill for now (we will likely be getting 3 to 5 more once we are sure it works for our needs). I have to admit we were definitely scared away from the m&r being discontinued even though i know they will continue to support it for a while...
What shop are you working at now?
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Has anyone had any experience with Omniprint? Their promo materials speak of very low maintenance, though they are a modified Epson...
Steve
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Eric: Bumperactive. They bought me to bring screenprinting in house. We have grown like crazy. When I looked yesterday our saber already has almost 350k impressions since install in may...
Mk162: there was a thread about discontinuing the m link a month or so ago and it has been brought up a few other times. I just re-read the thread and rich didnt confirm or deny that it was being discontinued. For the price though we could buy two or 3 of the Epson, and the redundancy of multiple machines was appealing.
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Another thing I should mention: pretreating. We have us3d the Wagner gun and the viper for a while, but upgraded to the newest shulze. That thing is a game changer and worth the cost if you're doing volume. Very well designed machine and consistent controllable results. Solved a lot of nagging little issues with that part of the process.
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Report back on ink cost, curious. Says 4x4 and a big back.
Shane
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Eric: Bumperactive. They bought me to bring screenprinting in house. We have grown like crazy. When I looked yesterday our saber already has almost 350k impressions since install in may...
Mk162: there was a thread about discontinuing the m link a month or so ago and it has been brought up a few other times. I just re-read the thread and rich didnt confirm or deny that it was being discontinued. For the price though we could buy two or 3 of the Epson, and the redundancy of multiple machines was appealing.
that's awesome. Kyle rules.
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Hey,
If you are looking at volume DTG here is a link of the process we created. The software and pretreat is available separately. Let me know how else I can help! The process is set up and running at the SGIA show for a closer look!
https://vimeo.com/237962184
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Hey,
If you are looking at volume DTG here is a link of the process we created. The software and pretreat is available separately. Let me know how else I can help! The process is set up and running at the SGIA show for a closer look!
https://vimeo.com/237962184
Does Vimeo buffer like mad for everyone else? I've tried 5 times to watch it and I get 11 seconds in.
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Eric: Bumperactive. They bought me to bring screenprinting in house. We have grown like crazy. When I looked yesterday our saber already has almost 350k impressions since install in may...
Mk162: there was a thread about discontinuing the m link a month or so ago and it has been brought up a few other times. I just re-read the thread and rich didnt confirm or deny that it was being discontinued. For the price though we could buy two or 3 of the Epson, and the redundancy of multiple machines was appealing.
that's awesome. Kyle rules.
It's been a good fit overall. Growth has been INSANE this last year. Big things coming in the next year as well. I've frankly been too busy to ask a lot of questions I have, but should have time in a month or so. Ill be posting a lot of higher level and more obscure topics soon!
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Hey,
If you are looking at volume DTG here is a link of the process we created. The software and pretreat is available separately. Let me know how else I can help! The process is set up and running at the SGIA show for a closer look!
https://vimeo.com/237962184
Pretty legit Steve... Keep pushing!
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The video finally worked for me...that is really cool.
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Seems pretty consistent that an Epson DTG is not the way to go.
Through my research, these are the options I plan/planned to do more research in
- Epson (probably not anymore since everyone is telling me to stray away from them)
- Brothers
- Anajet
- T-jet
- Kornit
- M&R
- Coldesi
- Omni-print
Would you guys eliminate any options right off the bat? Or have any other brands that I should add into consideration?
Would you guys suggest me start with a wagner sprayer for pretreatment opposed to going directly for a pretreatment machine?
And for the most part, heat presses are all pretty similar right? No real reason to dive super deep into them?
Thanks a lot guys~
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Don't just look at machine costs, which is what a lot of people focus on and that is a mistake.
You have to consider:
Machine Costs
Ink Costs
Maintenance Costs/Time involved to complete.
Actual print quality
Print speed
Availability of support
will do! thanks
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Hey,
If you are looking at volume DTG here is a link of the process we created. The software and pretreat is available separately. Let me know how else I can help! The process is set up and running at the SGIA show for a closer look!
https://vimeo.com/237962184
Hello. Are you an employee of Brothers?
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Hey,
If you are looking at volume DTG here is a link of the process we created. The software and pretreat is available separately. Let me know how else I can help! The process is set up and running at the SGIA show for a closer look!
https://vimeo.com/237962184
Hello. Are you an employee of Brothers?
President of Sales at Brown.
They make that slick dryer.
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Seems pretty consistent that an Epson DTG is not the way to go.
Through my research, these are the options I plan/planned to do more research in
- Epson (probably not anymore since everyone is telling me to stray away from them)
- Brothers
- Anajet
- T-jet
- Kornit
- M&R
- Coldesi
- Omni-print
Would you guys eliminate any options right off the bat? Or have any other brands that I should add into consideration?
Would you guys suggest me start with a wagner sprayer for pretreatment opposed to going directly for a pretreatment machine?
And for the most part, heat presses are all pretty similar right? No real reason to dive super deep into them?
Thanks a lot guys~
T-jet is closed, omni plus prints that i have seen are impressive on polyester. ask all to send sample and ink cost and print time of said sample on dark.
That will help you i think.
Shane
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And for the most part, heat presses are all pretty similar right? No real reason to dive super deep into them?
Thanks a lot guys~
I'd compare the range of heat presses with what's available in the motorcycle market.
Bikes range from Chinese copies of old honda 50's for less than a grand, to easily over $20,000 for a bike that you could ride to California and back confidently.
So, if it's just an occasional trip for a six pack (or a dozen shirts a week), get the cheap Chinese knockoff.
If you're going to be putting on some serious mileage and hours in the saddle, look at the BMW (name brand press, George Knight, Stahls, Insta)
Then it's a matter of bells and whistles or not.
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Just to clarify, the actual Epson brand dtg (F2100) is a lot different from the rebranded epson head mods, which are all over the board when it comes to design, quality, support, etc.
For heatpresses, we have two hix, 3 geoknights, and 2 hotronix. we also have one of the cheapo chinese made ebay deals. The best quality and service in my experience has been from geoknight. Stahls would be next, though the build quality is a little iffy for something being used hundreds of times a day. The hix are ok, but have some design flaws that are always a source of frustration. The chinese ebay press is collecting dust and a horrible choice. I have not used an Insta.
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Hey guys, I have another question, does each dtg printer have their own specific ink? So say if I were to purchase a Brothers, I would be forced to only purchase Brothers specific ink? Is there no universal dtg printing ink? Or is there a dtg printer that can use all brands of inks, and if not all brands, at least multiple different brands of inks?
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Hey guys, I have another question, does each dtg printer have their own specific ink? So say if I were to purchase a Brothers, I would be forced to only purchase Brothers specific ink? Is there no universal dtg printing ink? Or is there a dtg printer that can use all brands of inks, and if not all brands, at least multiple different brands of inks?
Generally correct. Most saying they will void your warranty if you use some other ink.
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Just to clarify, the actual Epson brand dtg (F2100) is a lot different from the rebranded epson head mods, which are all over the board when it comes to design, quality, support, etc.
For heatpresses, we have two hix, 3 geoknights, and 2 hotronix. we also have one of the cheapo chinese made ebay deals. The best quality and service in my experience has been from geoknight. Stahls would be next, though the build quality is a little iffy for something being used hundreds of times a day. The hix are ok, but have some design flaws that are always a source of frustration. The chinese ebay press is collecting dust and a horrible choice. I have not used an Insta.
I agree 100% on the heatpresses. We just bought a GeoKnight hat press and love it. Our Stahls is borderline junk. Our Hix is pretty old and has held up well with some mods to the auto open feature.
The current Epson DTG would be my 3rd choice if I was to buy one today. I have owned at least a dozen Epson printers and the only one I can say I miss the the Stylus Color 3000. That one was a workhorse.
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Another thing I should mention: pretreating. We have us3d the Wagner gun and the viper for a while, but upgraded to the newest shulze. That thing is a game changer and worth the cost if you're doing volume. Very well designed machine and consistent controllable results. Solved a lot of nagging little issues with that part of the process.
my viper has been down 3-4 times this year. the guy we outsource dtg to occasionally has a gtx and the shulze and those things are awesome. i'm not sure if i'm going to reup my investment in dtg after this thing breaks and the warranty runs out though... it feels marginally profitable at times.
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We had constant issues with our viper. It felt like we were constantly repairing it and cleaning it just so it worked as intended, and as intended gave us basically the same level of control and repeatability as hand spraying, just a little faster and cleaner. The schulze is night and day vs the viper. Tons of control, quality design, well built, etc. We havent had it long, so whose to say if it will have issues down the road (pretreatment chems are a dick to work with in general), but it has made that part of the process incredibly easy.
You definitely have to have a dedicated market for DTG to work from my experience with it. It can't be a process you use occasionally for a few jobs here and there. Everything needs to run everyday and all day or you end up spending a lot of time and money just maintaining the machines vs making money with them. If you want to keep doing DTG or get into it, I would definitely suggest having some kind of on demand market, whether its a store with your own designs, or some kind of low volume retail client who needs constant stock, then pushing as much low volume work to the process as you can to keep the thing running (like increasing your minimums from 12 to 24 to 36 for screenprinting). Even if it makes some of those jobs take a little longer or less profitable in the beginning, it will make you better at the process and keep the machines running.
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Hey guys, in terms of the wagner sprayer, is this the specific sprayer that i must use for pretreatment?
https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Spraytech-0529010-FLEXiO-Sprayer/dp/B00FBP4QT0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1540131726&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=wagner+sprayer&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Spraytech-0529010-FLEXiO-Sprayer/dp/B00FBP4QT0/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1540131726&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=wagner+sprayer&psc=1)
can i use any of the flexio series options on their website?
https://www.wagnerspraytech.com/products/paint-sprayers/flexio-series/ (https://www.wagnerspraytech.com/products/paint-sprayers/flexio-series/)
and how about any of the "control series" options?
Also is the pretreatment chemical I am using different from color garment? (or even material-type such as cotton vs polyester)
I know for black/dark and white/light garments, it's just a matter of more or less and also that pretreatment is not even absolutely necessary for white/light garments unless you want to get a better/vibrant on them. But how about those red, green, blue, purple, etc. colored garments? is there a separate pretreatment chemical that i am supposed to use?
- where do you guys purchase your pretreatment chemicals and what brand do you guys use?
- also when manually pretreating, do i need a stand? can i just place the shirt on a flat surface or table? i see a lot of people using a stand, some of them make their own pretreatment stand with particle wood
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quality and washability of your image is directly related to your pretreatment. If you put a little bit more on one side than the other, the image will look different. Repeatability and consistency of the pretreatment deposit is crucial to successful DTG operation. If you are spending money on a DTG find the money for a proper pretreatment solution or wait to get both. Buying one without the other is only good for RnD.
There are pretreatments for light color and dark color garments. Get both!
pierre
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There are basically 3 pretreatments: lights, darks, poly. The light pretreat doesn't react well with the white ink so it can't be used to print with white, it is just designed to improve detail, vibrance, and washab okklity on lights when printing cmyk. The dark pretreat is for printing with white, but it will often stain lights, but not always. We really don't use the poly pretreatment so I can't speak on that.
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really appreciate the quality feedback guys
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hey guys, i see that people use conveyor dryers or sometimes even a flash instead of a heat press. i have both because i am a screen printer. does that mean i wont be needing a heat press at all? or is it absolutely necessary to have a heat press either for before or after the pretreatment process or for the final cure?
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Heat press is helpful in matting down the fibers before printing (like a roller squeegee)... also, in general, it's nice to have a heat press around the shop really.
It's a great bandaid that you often need as a screen printer.
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I would say it's a must for pretreating darks.
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You will need a heat press and IMO the Shultz (spelling) pretreat machine was a must as well, just made it very easy to repeat pretreat for us.
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You will need a heat press and IMO the Shultz (spelling) pretreat machine was a must as well, just made it very easy to repeat pretreat for us.
Yea im getting a lot of consistent reviews/recommendations on the schulze pretreatment machine
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looks like im going to go with omniprint 330 tx. does anyone have this dtg printer?
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Can't speak to that printer, but when it comes to heat press vs conveyor: DTG inks will require a very, very long dwell time from everything I have read, like 2 or 3 times what discharge would require (think 5 to 8 minutes in the chamber). We have 4 heat presses to handle our printer output, all in a line, 2 or so feet apart. Cure time is around 2 minutes per garment. We can out cure our print output easily...
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Can't speak to that printer, but when it comes to heat press vs conveyor: DTG inks will require a very, very long dwell time from everything I have read, like 2 or 3 times what discharge would require (think 5 to 8 minutes in the chamber). We have 4 heat presses to handle our printer output, all in a line, 2 or so feet apart. Cure time is around 2 minutes per garment. We can out cure our print output easily...
Yea, I think a heat press may be necessary for heat pressing the pretreatment down before printing on dtg. Without the heat press, the fibers don't get push down for a vibrate print.
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think I gotta do more research before ordering. try to look up reviews on the omniprint and all the reviews that i come across look pretty staged and fake. all of them have that fake vibe/language to it like you see on commercials and all of the reviewers only have 1 review making it suspicious... also it is suspicious that the inks are either equal to or more than half the ink cost of other companies. there has to be a reason, things arent cheap for no reason.
whats your guys' thought on this? how did you find the confidence in the dtg printer you guys ended up buying. i dont know who to trust lol
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Have you been to an industry show where you can see a variety of equipment to better compare head to head?
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Who is using the omniprint? And is anyone using the pretreat they make too?
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think I gotta do more research before ordering. try to look up reviews on the omniprint and all the reviews that i come across look pretty staged and fake. all of them have that fake vibe/language to it like you see on commercials and all of the reviewers only have 1 review making it suspicious... also it is suspicious that the inks are either equal to or more than half the ink cost of other companies. there has to be a reason, things arent cheap for no reason.
whats your guys' thought on this? how did you find the confidence in the dtg printer you guys ended up buying. i dont know who to trust lol
there are 3 common options
kornit - expensive
brother gtx - faster economy option nice prints
epson f2100 - slow economy, good warranty
everything else... can't vouch for it, wouldn't touch it.