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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Shanarchy on August 27, 2011, 10:29:48 PM
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Any idea why my press prints in different locations on every pallet? There is up to a 3/4" difference in the horizontal location of prints from pallet to pallet. This is only the 4th job I have attempted to run on this press. I bought the pressed used and went through Anatol who had the independent tech they recommended contact me to do the press install and set up. The press is holding registration and will print dead on the film I register the screen to on the pallet I register to. I really don't know what to do and am pulling this job and going to run it on the manual press. I don't know if there is something I am doing wrong or if the tech did not set it up properly.
All I know is I have a torn labrum and I need an operation to anchor my shoulder back in the socket and manual printing is not helping me with the pain and severe inflammation. I'm really at wit's end and am desperate for help. For the first time I am considering throwing in the towel. My body just can not take the manual printing in this condition.
On the flip side, if someone is interested in a 7/8 Horizon mini PM me.
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I am going to guess that the pallets are not on center, that is an easy fix from what I have seen.
pierre
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Is each color moving or holding reg on each pallet but location on shirt up and down? Could be pallets moving or off center or screens moving. Get the tech to come back and make it right.
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I think Pierre is right, if the pallet brackets can themselves be adjusted then it would be easy to fix. This was always a potential problem on our Javelins when leveling pallets as the bracket bolts were fitted to slots in the pallet arm, so if you weren't careful you could throw a pallet off side to side by accident. I would never let a tech leave without printing at least 2 color with tight reg on every pallet.
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I am only familar with M&R platens. Do you have the clip on style platens? Do your platens have a top/bottom or front/back? Could be as easy as measuring and maybe flipping some platens around. To get around this without killing yourself on the manual figure out which ones are off and put a piece of tape on the platten and you can move the shirt up/down to abjust. I move shirts all the time, if i have mens ,ladies,youth or v-necks to be printed on the auto for the same order.
Peter
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something else that might help you out. . . go to harbor freight and pick up a laser. Print one shirt and place the laser line through the center of the print. Now when your press turns you can use this line to align the shirts (so you can finish the job) and then use it later to line up your plattens. Best $5 you will spend ever!
pierre
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Sounds like the tech did not split the arms properly on the bottom carousel prior to registering the machine. If so that is a bad install and should be redone. Put a center line on one screen and on the pallets as well. At head one center the screen to the pallet then check every pallet to that head. Should be within1/8. If off the arms will have to be recentered. I am not familiar of where the registration bearings are but if they are attached to the arm the press will have to be registered again. If not the arms can be moved and then recheck level and you should be ok.
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Sounds like 244 is right. The pallet arms need to be set. The Reg bearings are not attached to the pallet arms, so adjusting it won't mess up the registration. If you want to give me a call I can walk you through adjusting them. It's pretty simple. Or call that tech back in, that step is a necessary part of the install.
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I just want to clarify that I did not buy this press from Anatol. I bought it on the used market. Nor did they do the install. I did ask them to do the install and they ended up giving me the name and number of the independent tech that they recommended. That is who I used because I waned to be sure to not have any issues once I started using the press; the independent tech that Anatol recommends.
Bink, holding registration on each pallet but print location is different on every pallet/shirt
Broadway, they are the Anatol quick release pallets.
I want to thank everyone who has replied trying to offer help: Pierre, Brian, Squeegee, Broadway, Rich, Brannon, and asdf who called me early this morning to offer help and volunteer to try to walk me through it over the phone. All of your offerings of help is very generous and sincerely appreciated.
The tech complained the whole time that he was here that it was such a long ride and he wouldn't have came if he realized how long the ride was. I think (insert conspiracy theory here), he wanted to get out of there asap and try to avoid rush hour traffic. Therefore he did not do everything that should have been done.
We were without power at the shop today due to the hurricane, but I am going to take this advice and try to do some trouble shooting when I get power back.
I will keep you posted and be back with more questions I am sure. I may just need to bite the bullet and get a different tech here and make sure it is done right.
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are you serious? complained the whole time huh? I would have kicked his a s s right out the door. DO YOUR FKIN JOB and be happy you have one - and now I can't do mine because you didn't put my address in mapquest. . .that burns me up because I know of the problems you have been having. . I feel bad for you, it shouldn't be this hard. . .good luck. . .
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are you serious? complained the whole time huh? I would have kicked his a s s right out the door. DO YOUR FKIN JOB and be happy you have one - and now I can't do mine because you didn't put my address in mapquest. . .that burns me up because I know of the problems you have been having. . I feel bad for you, it shouldn't be this hard. . .good luck. . .
You know, half of me wanted to tell the guy point blank, do the F'ing job I'm paying you to do and shut up. But the other half of me figured if I seemed like a good guy he may be more motivated to not F me. Just very frustrating. I'll make it work. It's just an obstacle, but it sucks nonetheless.
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are you serious? complained the whole time huh? I would have kicked his a s s right out the door. DO YOUR FKIN JOB and be happy you have one - and now I can't do mine because you didn't put my address in mapquest. . .that burns me up because I know of the problems you have been having. . I feel bad for you, it shouldn't be this hard. . .good luck. . .
Amen. You should also give Anatol a ring and let them know about your experience with this guy. If they are recommending him, I'm sure they want to know about his behavior.
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I took a staic frame and drew a line down the center with the t square to see how off and how the pallets are aligned to each other. I also drew a horizontal line to check straightness from pallet to pallet. I am also noticing that some pallets are considerably lower than others.
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It's not uncommon to see center lines being off on non-adjustable home made boards on some manual presses. They are just not mounted on their brackets in a consistent manner. You are lucky enough to have that as an adjustable feature on your press.
Neither that nor the varying board height sound that drastic, though I agree, that this was supposed to have been taken care of.
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It's not uncommon to see center lines being off on non-adjustable home made boards on some manual presses. They are just not mounted on their brackets in a consistent manner. You are lucky enough to have that as an adjustable feature on your press.
Neither that nor the varying board height sound that drastic, though I agree, that this was supposed to have been taken care of.
It's not an adjustable feature on my press. The quick release platens clip on in one spot and can not be slid in and out to be adjusted for print height.
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The way I understand it is that though they may not be adjustable to you, they are to a tech. Perhaps each arm itself?
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I was just talking to asdf and with your approval would like to come up to your shop tomorrow or Tuesday and correct the issues with your press. I feel the issues could be resolved in a few hours.
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The way I understand it is that though they may not be adjustable to you, they are to a tech. Perhaps each arm itself?
Oh! Gotcha! I would imagine they are. I am guessing the arms themselves were just not properly aligned. But then again, I can barely figure out how to print shirts, let alone press configurements.
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I was just talking to asdfg and with your approval would like to come up to your shop tomorrow or Tuesday and correct the issues with your press. I feel the issues could be resolved in a few hours.
Brian, that would be great! Give me a call (508)617-7498 so we can coordinate.
Thanks!
Shane
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I took a staic frame and drew a line down the center with the t square to see how off and how the pallets are aligned to each other. I also drew a horizontal line to check straightness from pallet to pallet. I am also noticing that some pallets are considerably lower than others.
A better way to do a quick check is to center your floodbar in its holder with a center line marked on it and then draw a center line on each pallet. Slide print carriage to the front edge of the pallet, then all the way to the back edge and make sure the marks stay lined up.
Brian is fully capable and qualified to set you up correctly given the similar construction between Printex and Anatol.
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Its perfect registration
but not delivered at the same place on all pallets ?..How long has it been since your tech set it up..6 months?
4 jobs attempted on it since then...? On all pallets is the print what you want?...( I sold the Anatol to him. and wish him well)..You cant adjust the pallet to the arm that holds the pallet but you can adjust the arm..should have been done with set up. Dont be afraid of the machine,,,This should have been corrected a long time ago..maybe you wouldn't have pulled a muscle...like I did on the old manual..
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The pallets can be adjusted if yours is like my Anatol mini and the side clamp screen holders can be adjusted allso, but should not have to mess with those. I,m thinking your pallets are out of wack, I would start with head one get it right and level every other pallet to that head then check the rest it may take a few hours. I,m going post some pics of how Tom leveled our pallets that might help you out.
Darryl
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It sounds like a poor install for sure.
I wouldn't call that guy back though, he's just going to be more mad about a return drive and probably screw up something else. I would for sure let Anatol know about your results out of that installer. They may have a better suggestion or at least the next guy wont have to deal with it.
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If he gets a good print on every pallet, buy its too high, or too far left..or right...on the shirt. then adjust the arm that holds the pallet...does it vary on the same pallet?..tighten something..bad set up, but fixable the way its designed. I would gladly help him personally if he were closer...set it up on EVERY job, fix whats wrong and Gooo...dont sell it cause its not set up wrong! Fix and enjoy..An Anatol has fixed heads, if they dont move..perfect registration...the pallets rotate, and if they dont move..the image is just as perfect. If the pallets are not in allignment, the image is high, low, left, or right..but perfectly printed...MOVE THE PALLET TO THE CORRECT POSITION!..We dont hire a tech to do mechanical thing, lossen some bolts, allign then tighten..we hire techs to do the wiring and and higher adjustments.. Some things you have to think through..everything goed out of warranty..the ones that are trash are the ones you dont work on.
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Shane here are some pics of how Tom leveled our pallets on the install
First he got a piece of angle iron and cut it to fit between the screen clamps, then he zeroed the the off contact. If you look there are four adjustment bolts under each pallet everypallets has the same height from front to back when slide the iron back and forth just barely touching the pallet. Hope this helps you out some if you need more info just call me 334-983-6472.
Darryl
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keep at it Shane, the frustration can be a killer, but if you get it right, it'll be the stones. If you need to print something to take care of a customer, give me call, it's in my profile.
Steve
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I wanted to follow up on this thread so if anyone is searching info on the mini horizon they know the end result of my problem.
The press works fine. It was not a manufacturer issue.
The install was not done correctly. The pallet arms were not properly aligned. The pallets were not leveled. The screen holders were not adjusted for off contact.
I am going to make a separate post regarding it being fixed, but I want to sincerely thank everyone who replied here and called. It is amazing how many people in this industry are here to help you!
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Everyone here is happy for you, and probably many share my hope that you also follow up with both Anatol and the Tech himself for the absolutely unacceptable service you paid for initially.
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If your press isn't parallel to a reasonable tolerance, it can make printing a nightmare. I remember when I didn't understand the need for the auto to be so dialed in in that regard, and when I did bring our press back to a reasonable parallel, many issues just disappeared. Setup times will diminish greatly when everything is parallel, no more test printing 8 times on a 3 color job. I'm always looking for a better way to achieve a "somewhat" perfectly parallel press and have tried several different methods of doing it, and so far, my dial indicator tool gave me the best results. I know and understand the drawbacks of using that method, but I guess we are lucky in that our pallets have remained more flat than most. The method that makes the most sense, using the floodbar worked well, but I did notice some inconsistencies that I didn't have when using the dial indicator tool.
If you decide to bring a tech in, watch his every move and within minutes you'll see that next time you need to calibrate your press, you can do it yourself very easily. And honestly, I've seen and had techs in our shop and some of them I would consider "very good" and none of them dial in the press to a better tolerance than I do. It's all about how precise you want your press to be, so whoever does it, make sure you're satisfied when they start loading their tools up. And I'd also suggest that you check your press every 20K imprints to make sure everything is still parallel. Our printer likes to spin the press in free wheel mode by pressing down on the pallet's corner and pushing it and it was causing all of our pallets to be low in that corner he was using. If at all possible, mechanically index your press to the next station or grab the pallet arm underneath the pallet to spin the carousel.
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Everyone here is happy for you, and probably many share my hope that you also follow up with both Anatol and the Tech himself for the absolutely unacceptable service you paid for initially.
I spoke with Anatol on Tuesday. They called me to see what they could do to help. I followed up with them today to inform them what was and wasn't done correctly by the tech they recommended. Hopefully this info will help the next person get their press installed correctly.
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Our printer likes to spin the press in free wheel mode by pressing down on the pallet's corner and pushing it and it was causing all of our pallets to be low in that corner he was using. If at all possible, mechanically index your press to the next station or grab the pallet arm underneath the pallet to spin the carousel.
Thanks Alan!
As always, you have great information to offer.
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Alan, our installer told me the same thing about manual spinning the table, grab it from the bottom and allso he said don't let people come in and lean on the print arms or pallets...you know how people like to lean on sh!t and shoot the breeze he said.
Darryl