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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Fleetee on October 18, 2018, 08:25:53 AM
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What mesh count do you guys use to make half tones? I've never done half tones before and I'm planning to order a big bulk of screens. I would like the include the screens necessary to make half tones. Thanks guys!!
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order some 305 and 230 mesh screens. Once you spend some time with them, you'll know better how to fine tune the mesh selection.
pierre
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I can't remember where I got this formula, but if you take the mesh count and divide it by 4.5, you'll get the maximum LPI that the mesh can hold.
For example: 230 mesh, divided by 4.5 equals 51.111111. So 51 LPI halftones is the highest you can go on that mesh.
Also, look into S-Mesh (Smart Mesh) from Murakami. The thread diameter is thinner and you can hold smaller halftones on lower mesh counts than you can on regular mesh. I can hold 50 LPI on 180 S-mesh. It allows me to get good ink coverage and still have small halftones. You can get pre stretched S-Mesh screens from Spot Color Supply. $35 each if you get the permanent blockout around the edges.
Hope this helps!
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I can't remember where I got this formula, but if you take the mesh count and divide it by 4.5, you'll get the maximum LPI that the mesh can hold.
For example: 230 mesh, divided by 4.5 equals 51.111111. So 51 LPI halftones is the highest you can go on that mesh.
Also, look into S-Mesh (Smart Mesh) from Murakami. The thread diameter is thinner and you can hold smaller halftones on lower mesh counts than you can on regular mesh. I can hold 50 LPI on 180 S-mesh. It allows me to get good ink coverage and still have small halftones. You can get pre stretched S-Mesh screens from Spot Color Supply. $35 each if you get the permanent blockout around the edges.
Hope this helps!
I agree that S mesh is the way to go, but in my opinion, not the mesh to start with. It is too fragile and if not experienced, those screens will only last few washes before they pop. Start with regular and after you get used to them move to the S mesh.
On the other hand, if you don't mind breaking screens in the beginning, start with S. It will have a much steeper learning curve, but you will be learning on the best possible option. 'just be ready for some hair pulling!
pierre
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What mesh count do you guys use to make half tones? I've never done half tones before and I'm planning to order a big bulk of screens. I would like the include the screens necessary to make half tones. Thanks guys!!
Remember, if your in NC Spot color supply is very close and They have great screen and re-stretching pricing.
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to start off with buying 230, 280, and 305 mesh counts and playing with them to see what works best with what type of half tone. I'm thinking i'll use the 305 for the most detailed half tone, 280 for mid-level half tones, and 230 for the least details half tones. What do you guys think? If I play with the half tones and mesh counts, eventually I will get a good feel for what mesh count works best with what halftone?
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I can't remember where I got this formula, but if you take the mesh count and divide it by 4.5, you'll get the maximum LPI that the mesh can hold.
For example: 230 mesh, divided by 4.5 equals 51.111111. So 51 LPI halftones is the highest you can go on that mesh.
Also, look into S-Mesh (Smart Mesh) from Murakami. The thread diameter is thinner and you can hold smaller halftones on lower mesh counts than you can on regular mesh. I can hold 50 LPI on 180 S-mesh. It allows me to get good ink coverage and still have small halftones. You can get pre stretched S-Mesh screens from Spot Color Supply. $35 each if you get the permanent blockout around the edges.
Hope this helps!
I agree that S mesh is the way to go, but in my opinion, not the mesh to start with. It is too fragile and if not experienced, those screens will only last few washes before they pop. Start with regular and after you get used to them move to the S mesh.
On the other hand, if you don't mind breaking screens in the beginning, start with S. It will have a much steeper learning curve, but you will be learning on the best possible option. 'just be ready for some hair pulling!
pierre
Pierre,
Since you bring up S-Mesh along with lpi conversion (multiplying line count by 4, 4.5, or 5 to get lowest mesh count......) I have to ask, for S-Mesh, what's your conversion? Meaning, when you're calculating lpi on S Mesh, what do you use to calculate minimum mesh count per lpi? 4, 4.5, 5x?
Thanks a bunch!
Will
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You might be best off to start with 4.5 multiplier and work from there when you need to go higher in lpi.
I get good results with my halftones at 45 lpi on 230 mesh. But I'm pretty much a low volume guy and not in the class of most here. Retirement does that, lol.
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I can't remember where I got this formula, but if you take the mesh count and divide it by 4.5, you'll get the maximum LPI that the mesh can hold.
For example: 230 mesh, divided by 4.5 equals 51.111111. So 51 LPI halftones is the highest you can go on that mesh.
Also, look into S-Mesh (Smart Mesh) from Murakami. The thread diameter is thinner and you can hold smaller halftones on lower mesh counts than you can on regular mesh. I can hold 50 LPI on 180 S-mesh. It allows me to get good ink coverage and still have small halftones. You can get pre stretched S-Mesh screens from Spot Color Supply. $35 each if you get the permanent blockout around the edges.
Hope this helps!
I agree that S mesh is the way to go, but in my opinion, not the mesh to start with. It is too fragile and if not experienced, those screens will only last few washes before they pop. Start with regular and after you get used to them move to the S mesh.
On the other hand, if you don't mind breaking screens in the beginning, start with S. It will have a much steeper learning curve, but you will be learning on the best possible option. 'just be ready for some hair pulling!
pierre
Pierre,
Since you bring up S-Mesh along with lpi conversion (multiplying line count by 4, 4.5, or 5 to get lowest mesh count......) I have to ask, for S-Mesh, what's your conversion? Meaning, when you're calculating lpi on S Mesh, what do you use to calculate minimum mesh count per lpi? 4, 4.5, 5x?
Thanks a bunch!
Will
We don't convert. Not really sure it's necessary. I would imagine most here will agree that 305 mesh and 55lpi is the industry standard. 230S mesh for underbase will hold almost all of the 55lpi halftones (down to about 5%). In theory regular 305 will hold down to 3%, but we have not had much luck with that and stop around 5-7%. 330S has been good down to 3%, but it's not easy to get the smallest dots to open. I remember working the screens for up to 15 min to get everything to open. I should mention that this is with calibrated output so it is closer to 65lpi out of FilmMaker and AccuRIP before adjustments.
45lpi looks pretty good and is much easier to hold even on lower count meshes. If you are trying to figure out what to do, start with 45lpi and make sure you hold down to 5-7%. If you are doing good with that, try 55lpi. We have won some awards with 63 and 61lpi, but to be honest, those were just done as marketing gimmicks and I can't see any customer needing that level of detail. We print 99% of our jobs at 55lpi and every now and then will go to 45lpi to make things easier.
pierre
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oh, and I should mention that not all mesh will like all the lpi and all the angles. Murakami has a nice chart showing the best options for each mesh count. Unfortunately, tension and uniformity of the stretch are not really same from screen to screen so what worked for them might not work for you or somebody else. I remember testing some of the results they showed and it did not mach our experience.
Easy answer to anybody looking to get into it is 55lpi and 22.5 degree angle will get you what you want. If 55 is not working, go to 45 or even 35 until you dial things in. . . Print a halftone pattern going from 0-20% and see what opens. The smallest one that has ALL OF THE DOTS OPEN is what you can hold. So if 5% is completely open, but 4% has some openings blocked, than you can hold 5%.
pierre
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I can't remember where I got this formula, but if you take the mesh count and divide it by 4.5, you'll get the maximum LPI that the mesh can hold.
For example: 230 mesh, divided by 4.5 equals 51.111111. So 51 LPI halftones is the highest you can go on that mesh.
Also, look into S-Mesh (Smart Mesh) from Murakami. The thread diameter is thinner and you can hold smaller halftones on lower mesh counts than you can on regular mesh. I can hold 50 LPI on 180 S-mesh. It allows me to get good ink coverage and still have small halftones. You can get pre stretched S-Mesh screens from Spot Color Supply. $35 each if you get the permanent blockout around the edges.
Hope this helps!
I agree that S mesh is the way to go, but in my opinion, not the mesh to start with. It is too fragile and if not experienced, those screens will only last few washes before they pop. Start with regular and after you get used to them move to the S mesh.
On the other hand, if you don't mind breaking screens in the beginning, start with S. It will have a much steeper learning curve, but you will be learning on the best possible option. 'just be ready for some hair pulling!
pierre
Pierre,
Since you bring up S-Mesh along with lpi conversion (multiplying line count by 4, 4.5, or 5 to get lowest mesh count......) I have to ask, for S-Mesh, what's your conversion? Meaning, when you're calculating lpi on S Mesh, what do you use to calculate minimum mesh count per lpi? 4, 4.5, 5x?
Thanks a bunch!
Will
We don't convert. Not really sure it's necessary. I would imagine most here will agree that 305 mesh and 55lpi is the industry standard. 230S mesh for underbase will hold almost all of the 55lpi halftones (down to about 5%). In theory regular 305 will hold down to 3%, but we have not had much luck with that and stop around 5-7%. 330S has been good down to 3%, but it's not easy to get the smallest dots to open. I remember working the screens for up to 15 min to get everything to open. I should mention that this is with calibrated output so it is closer to 65lpi out of FilmMaker and AccuRIP before adjustments.
45lpi looks pretty good and is much easier to hold even on lower count meshes. If you are trying to figure out what to do, start with 45lpi and make sure you hold down to 5-7%. If you are doing good with that, try 55lpi. We have won some awards with 63 and 61lpi, but to be honest, those were just done as marketing gimmicks and I can't see any customer needing that level of detail. We print 99% of our jobs at 55lpi and every now and then will go to 45lpi to make things easier.
pierre
This
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Would anyone recommend 280 standard mesh to the OP (Fleetee)? I see he's thinking about getting some, but I've never heard anyone talk about using that count. 230, then jump to 305 seems to be the standard, and my own experience. Higher end printers use 355 on occasion, too. But do you bother with any other "middle ground" counts for halftones?
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I would not to start with. There is a time and place for it, but that's a little later in the learning curve.
Again, this is not to say it's not usable or doable, but my suggestion would be to start with 230 and 305. Get a really, really good foundation with those and then check out the other mesh counts. Important thing is to be very familiar with what you are doing so when you make changes you understand how it's different. Somebody just starting will not get all the nuances of differences between the regular and S mesh. I'd suggest printing for a year or so with regular and then trying S.
pierre
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I am under the understanding that standard 280mesh is the same size thread as 305 but has fewer threads so they are actually a lot more tender than a standard 305.and in personal experience our 305 have lasted longer than 280.