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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: GraphicDisorder on July 07, 2023, 09:13:26 AM
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Couple months back we added a Blue Water Labs reclaim unit. So far its really been great for our flow.
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Nice! bluewater team rocks. We have machine number 7.
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Nice! bluewater team rocks. We have machine number 7.
Great team for sure. Had a small hiccup after install and they were all over it.
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yeah, they are very responsive when it comes to issues. it's awesome.
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Do these actually work? I haven't seen any promotional material from this particular company but all the other
company videos always seem to fade out as the screen is exiting if you know what I mean.
If there's one thing I've learned in screen cleaning is that ink (of any type) removal requires physical abrasion and not
just chemicals being shot at it. IE the new M&R squeegee clean thing is a non-starter.
The benefit of automated screen cleaning is super obvious, maybe directly in line after automated printing, but it
would have to be "put dirty screen in one end retrieve completely clean screen from other".
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Do these actually work? I haven't seen any promotional material from this particular company but all the other
company videos always seem to fade out as the screen is exiting if you know what I mean.
If there's one thing I've learned in screen cleaning is that ink (of any type) removal requires physical abrasion and not
just chemicals being shot at it. IE the new M&R squeegee clean thing is a non-starter.
The benefit of automated screen cleaning is super obvious, maybe directly in line after automated printing, but it
would have to be "put dirty screen in one end retrieve completely clean screen from other".
Most screens come out needing zero done to them, totally perfect. Small percentage will require a quick touch up by hand, talking seconds, this only generally happens if too much ink is left in the screen or some tape is left on the screen that blows off onto the screen. Beyond that we've had great results.
My guess is the reason you don't see videos of these things of a dirty screen going in and the same dirty screen coming out now clean is that's about a 10 minute ride or something through the thing. Would be a long video. But I agree, they all could do a better job showing that in some way, maybe speeding up the video in the middle or something.
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Interesting that it's all HDPE (or is that polypro?).
Does it degrease and dry as well? We have an IT machine that spits out coat-able screens.
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Interesting that it's all HDPE (or is that polypro?).
Does it degrease and dry as well? We have an IT machine that spits out coat-able screens.
I am not sure which it's made of.
Yes it dry's as well, I wouldn't say they are coming out 1000% dry but they are pretty dry.
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We have one as well, not as extensive as the one in the pic, but we don't need it to take plastisol ink off so they made them a bit different. We have 2 units and love them. We are lucky enough to be like 45min from the factory so they have tested a few things out here. Also shot a lot of video, it is odd there is not video of them out there. Either way, I 100% recommend them. The people at the company and support(not just Alex) has been awesome!
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Worth noting Alex came from M&R and was there when service/part availability was impeccable. So he gets it.
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We have one as well, not as extensive as the one in the pic, but we don't need it to take plastisol ink off so they made them a bit different. We have 2 units and love them. We are lucky enough to be like 45min from the factory so they have tested a few things out here. Also shot a lot of video, it is odd there is not video of them out there. Either way, I 100% recommend them. The people at the company and support(not just Alex) has been awesome!
Alex, interested to hear about what your process is with your machine. We are running into some roadblocks with being exclusively WB, and Alex and I have been brainstorming new ideas weekly.
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Ours is literally a power washer on steroids in a box. I didn't want the emulsion remover built in, I have had my experience with that and just not interested. Screen goes into a dip tank then into the washer. Same person does that and does basically the reverse on the development side. Super smooth!
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Ours is literally a power washer on steroids in a box. I didn't want the emulsion remover built in, I have had my experience with that and just not interested. Screen goes into a dip tank then into the washer. Same person does that and does basically the reverse on the development side. Super smooth!
how much time do you believe your saving? Or hell, not even time -how much man power / effort are you saving? I'm all about increases in quality of life...
which model? I see variations...this has my interest
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No idea the model number, think he made it for me because I had been hounding him for years.... The "quality of life" increase at least for that particular job for that person is great. We will automate as much as we can then the 1 person just moves the screens and pushes buttons. It has been great. You can set it for as many "passes" as you want, we had it at 2 passes and it was just under 90 seconds per screen, so we upped it to 3 passes, it is right around 2 min now. I can ask Alex what they call this model and update you if you want.
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No idea the model number, think he made it for me because I had been hounding him for years.... The "quality of life" increase at least for that particular job for that person is great. We will automate as much as we can then the 1 person just moves the screens and pushes buttons. It has been great. You can set it for as many "passes" as you want, we had it at 2 passes and it was just under 90 seconds per screen, so we upped it to 3 passes, it is right around 2 min now. I can ask Alex what they call this model and update you if you want.
Is this the one ?
https://screenprintingsupply.com/collections/hot-and-new/products/bluewater-labs-high-pressure-cleaning-system
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That is it. That is also my slender self in that video.... ;D
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Nice lol.
I have a bunch of pictures and videos of the full unit. if anyone wants them.
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No exp w/ Bluewater but have had an M&R auto reclaim and now a Lotus Holland. M&R had too many chains that required quite a bit of maintenance to keep clean and working well. If ignored, you may see them on Digitsmith. Also did not care for the single chemistry approach (get it out of whack and you had to drain and $tart over). The Lotus 3 chamber works much better; do not have to worry about chemical inbalanceand far less maintenance. Uses only one chain to travel the screens and it never gunks up. It uses brushes for ink removal and the reclaim chamber uses a high tech tubular belt. Very different approach to the M&R. In any case IMO all these units require a certain degree of care and maintenance. They are not plug and play push a button and Bobs your Uncle. And again, I have yet to see all screens come out perfect every time. Tape adhesives, ink pigments, water PH, and many other variables come into play. For us a quick spray of 701 and pwash fixes any troubles. Summary, they are huge time savers for the multi task screen making op. We can auto coat/ image/ de-tape/reclaim with one or two people depending. And finally, with both units we scrape the screens with a 3" stainless steel paint scraper (beveled and sanded) to clean screens before entry. It puts way less strain on the chemistry and moving parts.
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I'm not trying to get into a contest with anyone, argue or beat my chest. I just want to share some real numbers. I am using the Bluewater Reclaim and Developer. Yesterday was a pretty typical day. We did just shy of 200 screens (195 to be precise). I have three people total in pre press and reclaim. My pre press has two people. Between them they coat, image, expose, develop, and tape screens. My reclaim is one guy. He hauls screens off the production floor, removes tape, and runs the reclaim machine. That's my short story. Nobody was busting their ass, just moving at a good pace. We could have done a fair amount more had we needed to. Again, my number in my shop using Bluewater equipment.
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Mr. Dave I appreciate this info and the info you emailed over.
One point you had mentioned was water usage. I didn't ask about it in my original request but
that's actually kind of a big issue. This year is all good but the last few have been a little parched out west.
For those of you using these and are able to see water usage have you noticed a big increase?
I would like to think that a robot would be more precise than us lowly humans.
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Mr. Dave I appreciate this info and the info you emailed over.
One point you had mentioned was water usage. I didn't ask about it in my original request but
that's actually kind of a big issue. This year is all good but the last few have been a little parched out west.
For those of you using these and are able to see water usage have you noticed a big increase?
I would like to think that a robot would be more precise than us lowly humans.
I don't know what the actual measurement of usage refers to on the bill, gallons used maybe? But the usage is about 3x since adding our machine. Which roughly doubled the bill water bill. The neat thing about ours is we have 2 water services here at my building. Suite 2 ONLY uses water for our reclaim, no other water is used back there. So we can see easily the bill difference.
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I don't know what the actual measurement of usage refers to on the bill, gallons used maybe? But the usage is about 3x since adding our machine. Which roughly doubled the bill water bill. The neat thing about ours is we have 2 water services here at my building. Suite 2 ONLY uses water for our reclaim, no other water is used back there. So we can see easily the bill difference.
Excellent point of data, interesting that you have that ability.
Do any of these machines recycle water at all? Seems like a possibility what with the giant pumps and whatnot.
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I don't know what the actual measurement of usage refers to on the bill, gallons used maybe? But the usage is about 3x since adding our machine. Which roughly doubled the bill water bill. The neat thing about ours is we have 2 water services here at my building. Suite 2 ONLY uses water for our reclaim, no other water is used back there. So we can see easily the bill difference.
Excellent point of data, interesting that you have that ability.
Do any of these machines recycle water at all? Seems like a possibility what with the giant pumps and whatnot.
Ya when we bought our building it had 2 suites, we rented out the other. When our building caught fire we kicked them out and knocked the wall down and its all one building again, but still has 2 water services.
To get the city to combine the services was complicated/added time/cost. So when we took the back over we just turned on the second water service. It only is used for the Blue Water machine and the wash out booth (blowing out burnt screens). So we can see specifically what changed pretty easily.
I know everything that goes through the machine goes back into it, filters it and reuses, I do not know at what amount its evaporated/turns to mist/etc. I know we have to add some chemistry to it every X amount of screens. I could ask my guy what we are doing specifically there if you want.
Over all the effort needed to reclaim is a fraction though, so quality of life is way up. I haven't heard a peep about that being a shitty task since adding it. Plus the nice thing is any one can be trained to do it so fast.
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Who said "Dave 's not here man"? As usual our results are similar but different to Barth's with regards to how many per hour however we dont reclaim 8 hrs per day. The difference for me is that it is no longer an interruptive, independent job function. It is something we now do while we are doing other things simultaneously. I believe the Bluewater units have the air knife jet exit advantage BTW. Only ones I know of.
Best, Tommy Chong aka tonypep
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Both my reclaim and developer have the air knives. Coming out of reclaim, screens can be coated immediately. Coming out of developer, ready to tape. These are two bottlenecks I'm glad I have no more.
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I haven't heard a peep about that being a shitty task since adding it. Plus the nice thing is any one can be trained to do it so fast.
It's much like the difference between manual and auto printing. Sure auto printing is still *work*, but it's consistent and much easier to train someone to do it right.
We have a new (replacement) IT SWR here. First one ran for 23 years.
It has separate ink removal and stencil remover tanks that are recirculatory (with vertical brushes, a la car wash). The final rinse after degreasing is not recirculated. Warm air knives at the end. The whole thing is a 27 foot long monolith of stainless steel. :o
There was some futzing with chems to get the right dilutions at first but now it's humming along. I don't have an idea if there was an increase or decrease in water usage, as it was basically a swap out. I'll need to look at the water bill history in a few quarters.