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Embroidery => General Embroidery => Topic started by: ebscreen on October 31, 2011, 02:35:36 PM
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Looking again at getting a machine in house. Currently sub everything out, and we don't even
advertise for embroidery. Some general questions:
Single head is out, but how many heads is enough to begin with?
I'd figure average order to be in the 50 piece range, and probably %95
of the work to be 3,000 stitches or less. But we all know how quickly
that changes.
Looking at Toyota and Tajima. Any other brands I should add to the list?
Will continue to send out digitizing to begin with, but would like to bring
that in eventually as well, if only for edits or whatnot. Any recommended
software?
And lastly, no offense to theshirtboard, but is there a place that maybe has
a bunch of general information on embroidery, a forum to search back posts, etc?
So much of the process seems to be on the computer and machine side that
it's hard for me to wrap my head around controlling quality. Whereas when
I started screen printing much of the quality control was literally at my fingertips.
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Tajima, Barudan, SWF.........................................................Happy, Brother
As fas as how many heads, I have a single head, and I wish that I have more. But as far as 50 piece order, you can do it on single, especially with the low stitch count, not recommended, but you could do it regularly (it gets old after 50). I would be looking for a 4 head soon, but I have to figure out where to put it, I can not fit anything bigger than a single head into my basement (narrow staircase and doors).
As far as the software, Wilcom seems to be a king. I have pulse that I got with my Tajima and I like it. With it, you can direct connect to your Tajima and be able to send digitized files from your comp to the macine. Other software can not do that with Tajima.
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Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
I know there are a lot of variables, but can you give me an estimated
time to sew (sewing only) a 3500 stitch design? That would help with
estimating how many heads would be appropriate.
Thanks again.
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And, Dennis (and others) do have any other specific forum recommendations?
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We started out with a used 6 head Tajima, still have it, and another, they've been good solid machines, AND, I'd like to add that service from Hirsch has been extremely good on them. Looked at Barudans, they seemed really good too, highly recommended by other owners but at the time they didn't have anything as compact as Tajima (I'm sure that's different now). Get as many heads as you can afford, there are lots of 4 and 6 head machines out there used.
3.5K stitches *should take* less than 7 minutes on average, but every file is different and some have multiple trims/color changes or whatnot and take longer. You will be asked for huge designs, it's only a matter of time...more heads means less total run time per order. I think our average is more in the 5-8K range and about 50 pcs.
We have Wilcom, and we overpaid for it, you need software but you don't need all the bells and whistles that cost major bucks. Wilcom is good software, tech service is okay. Learning to do edits yourself will payoff big time when your digitizer can't get back to quickly enough, but I'd recommend you keep outsourcing the digitizing as a whole unless you have mega orders and time.
I never look at forums for Embroidery, guess I should but couldn't begin to tell you where. I took seminars at trade shows, took digitizing training, but most of what I know has come from experience and day to day operations.
If you take a seminar or 2 you can find out what Software package will suit you.
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I had a ZSK. Was great for flats, not so good on caps. Had an 8 head.
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3500 stitches, that depends on how many heads. e, with a single head, I can not afford to run optimal speed of 600-650 stitches/minute that you could run on multi head. I run mine around 800-850, and machine will max out at 1200. Also, like squeegee said, it depends on the number of trims and color changes.
As far as the forums, I'm not member of any "embro specific forums" but I am member of two Yahoo groups for Tajima and Pulse owners. A lot of good info if you can stand Marv's rumblings and crying (I guess he is one of the big shot digitizers in the US).
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Thanks guys, I'm starting to get a better idea of what's involved.
Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and ask specifics here. Things like trims and backings and
stitch speed and hooping procedures and post stitch steaming (they do that right?) are still a mystery to
me. I'll be learning along with the employees so hopefully I don't look like
a total jackwagon.
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Wow that is a low stitch count......I looked back over the past year and I did not have anything under 10k.....Wat does a 3K logo look like?....
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Don't know much about embroidery, but I do know Barudan is a great machine. My boss has one that is like a 1975 model that still runs. It has no technology whatsoever, but it runs. Newer ones look a lot nicer then the one he uses and I'm sure they're just as reliable. I would personally go with 4-6 heads minimum.
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Single lines of text across the left chest. Seriously almost all of our
embroidery has been like that.
Had forgotten about Hirsch being support for Tajima. Glad to hear
they do a better job on that than the MHM side.
Barudan used Tajima heads at one point?
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No, Toyota machines USE Tajima heads now and are made in the same facility.
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E you are way low on stitch count you really should revise that for an absolute minimum of 7K to 8K stitches minimum. Typically we see 12000 to 15000 and you need to figure in trims and color changes.
Realistically if you use 600 SPM you will actually run slightly higher but with trims etc the 600SPM is pretty accurate for real elapsed time when actually running 700- 750 ish.
mooseman
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Tell me of these trims. Manually cutting thread between elements of a design?
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Tell me of these trims. Manually cutting thread between elements of a design?
LOL
Most of the never machines have automatic trimmers. Then stop and start on their own.
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Do I sound like a first year diesel mechanic looking for spark plugs?
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I have a Tajima Neo single head... Great starter machine as it is portable for those booth jobs.
I just outsourced a 78 piece job with 27k stitches on left chest design...
I also outsource our digitizing as I am doing a lot more dye sublimation and screen printing than embroidery until Mid November then it kicks in for Christmas.
We are also looking for a 4 or 6 head but have a 2 head Barudan in my sights right now at a great price.
Frank
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eb, embroidery is simple once you have it down. I have some great resources built up over the years for our supplies.
I can share some things with you, drop me a line sometime.
I am willing to share them here, I just don't have the time to type them all out right now.
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Right on. I was wondering how much operator error there is.
Also, embroidery suppliers don't seem to be a dime a dozen like the ink
slingers are.
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Yikes, I must be seriously challenged
Been embroidering for more than 20 years and I'd never use the adjective "simple" to describe the process
guess it may be time for me to start buckling down, huh?
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It's easy once you have the hang of it. I find it easier than screen printing.
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Had forgotten about Hirsch being support for Tajima. Glad to hear
they do a better job on that than the MHM side.
Eb, you know I wonder if your MHM's age has something to do with your bad experiences with Hirsch? Remember, Hirsch got into the game with MHM back in 2005-2006. Seriously because I've had no issues getting parts or service with my machines. Not M&R or Workhorse instant gratification, but nonetheless I would rate my experience as above average. I just wouldn't want anyone reading this to go away thinking that Hirsch is terrible, because I would certainly disagree. Maybe I have a better rapport with them than most? I dunno.
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You sound like one of customers........"don't you just press the start button? and the machine does all the work?"
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Squeegee, on some things I would agree. But many (~%95) of the parts are the same as the new machines.
Maybe things have changed recently, I haven't contacted them in a year at least. When I did, if I could even get
someone on the phone, I was usually referred to Action Engineering (pallets, squeegee's/floods) or Gaylen at MSI
for any parts. Occasionally they would direct me to MHM Austria? I've heard horror stories from others as well, I'd consider
yourself lucky Squeegee.
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Lucky I guess, because I've never been refered to Austria for anything, and only have been refered to Gaylen at MSI for buying his flashes, and to Action only as a state-side source for squeegees and pallets as you said. I've been dealing with Hirsch for close to 10 yrs and though it's not been a perfect relationship (which is normal), I'd still say overall it's still been better than other companies I've dealt with in this industry, my opinion, sorry I will shut up now.
Oh yea, back to your post, yes we steam our embroidery after most jobs to remove the hoop marks. We use hooping presses as well, which are worth a look if you want to make your life easier. I'd say overall, aside from digitizing that embroidery might be a bit easier than screen printing. Very low losses with a well trained operator and a well maintained machine.
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One more thing, Hoopmaster is a must!!!
As far as Hirsch, no issues with the. I live about 30 miles from their offices and they have been nothing but helpful to me with anything concerned with my Tajima.
Rob Giradot (or something like that) is my sales guy, and he is great an very helpful.
Make sure you negotiate a hell of a deal, I got a lot of extras with my machine (that is if you look new). And If you want something nice that will not turn you away from embroidery, I would buy new if the money is there. With an used machine, you can buy someones headache, especially if you do not know what you are doing,
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I have worked on tajimas, barudans and melcos. I have also worked on single heads to 18 head machines. They are all the same to me. There may be a few things you may prefer over the other but I bought the machine that I had the most experience with and new I could fix on my own since it is very costly to get a tech. out. The main thing is to know your machine inside and out. It's like your car, take care of it from the start and the less issues you will have with it. Know how to clean it, oil it and fix it and you will be a happy camper. As far as starting out I would get a double head that way you can take on more jobs and when you do get the full back order you aren't spending the day just doing only a few jackets.
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Awesome advice BJ. Yet another machine to become intimate with. I don't like not knowing the inner workings
of my my tools. It's good to hear that it is possible to know these machines, I was under the impression
that they were a bit like rocket ships or something.
Care to divulge what brand you use?
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I only buy Melcos because it is the machine that I have the most experience with. I saw at my old job how much it costed for them get a tech. out to fix their machines. The guy lives on one of the islands across the puget sound so they had to pay for his travel(ferry), his hotel, labor. It was outragious, so I knew when I had my own machines I would buy the one that I knew the most about, how to oil it and fix it. Knock on wood-I called a tech. once because it always happens of course when you are in the middle of a rush job but I finally figured out what was wrong and was able to cancel the tech. Like I said-it's like a car, if you grew up with a certain type of car you can change the oil in your sleep but buy a different brand and then you have to take the tire off just to find it, get out the manuel and eventually end up taking it into the garage because it is just too complicated and you don't have the time. When you buy your machine make it part of the deal that they will train you and show you how to maintain your machine.
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For what it's worth, I think BJ hit the nail right smack on the head.
We all tend to 'like' the machines that we're most comfortable with.
Each may have slight idiosyncracies but basically they're all the same.
Baraudan, and even Happy have good reputations..............but if you browse the forums for those machines, folks are having the same issues that folks with (lowly) Toyotas and SWF's are having.
Over the years I've worked with Melcos, Toyotas, Tajamas and Happy.
We're now using SWFs
Am I happy? Yep
When I bought my double-head, it wasn't much more then a singlehead Tajima
Now all that being said, you can get a lemon anywhere
Just exactly like cars.
First and foremost make sure, make really, really sure the machine comes with top-notch support.
Especially for a newbie, I firmly believe that might be the most important factor in the whole darn (complicated) equation.
Diane