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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: 3Deep on December 09, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
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Any one using One Strokes new water color plastisol inks Pros/Cons this what they say
Replace water-based inks with a plastisol inks and get your freedom back. No longer do you need a special emulsion. Ink will not dry in your screen. You won't need excessive cure times to evaporate the water in the ink. Watercolor solves so many problems.
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Waiting for my sample kit.
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looks interesting...
Steve
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Link would be helpful, is this it? http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/war_paint.pdf (http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/war_paint.pdf)
This is not plastisol though. I thought the whole 'replace water based inks and it's easier than ever' and you mentioning it's plastisol was all a joke...
Sounds like the Excalibur Evolution series 2 ink to me? PVC free - Hopefully less expensive though.
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Here's a link to the tech sheet. http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/tds_watercolor.pdf (http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/tds_watercolor.pdf)
To me, though, it seems to match a description of based-down plastisol.
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Here's a link to the tech sheet. [url]http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/tds_watercolor.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.onestrokeinks.com/assets/tds_watercolor.pdf[/url])
To me, though, it seems to match a description of based-down plastisol.
Yea I wonder how easy it would be to replicate with soft hand base / curable reducer mix.
Currently we just use QCM Softee base and higher mesh counts when going for soft hand feel.
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We like Rutland's Chino base, and WM Plastics Just So Soft base/additive for this.
I feel like it's a stretch claiming it's a replacement for Waterbased ink.
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All of the plastisols that try to emulate wb have fibrillation issues imo.
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Don't water base have the same characteristics (fibrillation)? when I first started screen printing all I knew about was water base inks, but I did a lot of white and very light color shirts back then too, so that might not have been a problem or I didn't have sense enough to know. If DC inks was not a difficult beast and worked on any garment color I'd go DC, but I'm interested in this ink from One Stroke, but I know it will come with a nice price tag if it's what they say it is.
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All of the plastisols that try to emulate wb have fibrillation issues imo.
yep. I havent tested this one, but of all the weird bases and inks I've tried, none of them act like actual waterbased inks, especially once the garment has been washed. Black waterbased inks (good ones at least) stay super black for dozens of washes with no hand or weird lightening due to fibration because the fibers are actually dyed black from the ink. Black plastisols, stock or pigmented bases of all kinds, tend to lighten up due to the fibration and tend to still have a hand, even if it is "soft" compared to standard plastisol prints.
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Another approach to taming errant fibers is to do so with water-based ink. This can work well with white shirts, the ones that show fibrillation the most. Water-based ink can penetrate and color the fibers of the shirt so that, even if they do pop up, they’re mostly the proper color. ~ Rick Roth
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Don't water base have the same characteristics (fibrillation)? when I first started screen printing all I knew about was water base inks, but I did a lot of white and very light color shirts back then too, so that might not have been a problem or I didn't have sense enough to know. If DC inks was not a difficult beast and worked on any garment color I'd go DC, but I'm interested in this ink from One Stroke, but I know it will come with a nice price tag if it's what they say it is.
Not if done right. The pigment wicks into the fibers themselves so nothing can fuzz out after wearing/washing due to the fibers breaking loose of the ink film. Think dyeing v. coating here.
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Bringing this back up again because I got a call from One stroke this morning, trying to get me to buy a sample, I don't buy sample's not at there price. I told them I ask about this ink here and didn't get much of a response which I found odd because you guys are pretty much up on the new inks hitting the market, so I ask again has anyone tried there new water color inks which is from what they say a plastisol water base ink without the drying properties of true water base ink. Oh and one stroke is some very pricey azz inks ;)
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Here, if a job calls for waterbase like softness....... we just print waterbase.....
With that said: We use Rutlands Ultra Soft Primer Clear. It has better long term matte abilities than Chino, Fashion soft etc.... BUT, it will build up if you print it wet on wet. We usually use it for one color stuff that needs to be really soft and tonal on colored garments. Typically blends.
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I haven't used it, but after talking to our rep a few time about it...It sounds like a good idea in theory and I'm sure it's got a market out there...But here if we need an ink of that sort we mix it in house.
Murphy
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I look forward to those who will receive a Watercolor sample kit in the near future. I would love to answer a few of the questions. The Watercolor ink will allow for "the fuzz" to come through the ink in much the same way as regular (not high solids) water-based ink. It is plastisol but we have formulated it to wick into the fabric far better. Additives, reducers, and bases will not produce this effect to the extent that Watercolor will. This is due to your inability to remove the fillers and additives which are already in the ink you are trying to base down. The down side of Watercolor is the need for a discharge base on dark fabrics if you are looking for vibrant prints. Much like regular water-based inks, Watercolor is not opaque. Without the discharge base, you will have a nifty vintage/worn look. I hope this clears up any questions about the new ink.
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good to see you are on the board Rob. Miss you as my sale rep.
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I look forward to those who will receive a Watercolor sample kit in the near future. I would love to answer a few of the questions. The Watercolor ink will allow for "the fuzz" to come through the ink in much the same way as regular (not high solids) water-based ink. It is plastisol but we have formulated it to wick into the fabric far better. Additives, reducers, and bases will not produce this effect to the extent that Watercolor will. This is due to your inability to remove the fillers and additives which are already in the ink you are trying to base down. The down side of Watercolor is the need for a discharge base on dark fabrics if you are looking for vibrant prints. Much like regular water-based inks, Watercolor is not opaque. Without the discharge base, you will have a nifty vintage/worn look. I hope this clears up any questions about the new ink.
Not exactly trying to pick apart your product claims (as many have read over the years, I'm a fan and was an early adopter of One Stroke products when I could get them 20 or so years ago in Oakland) What about when someone just adds pigment to a soft base of curable reducer?
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Andy:
If he is stating that it actually coats the shirt fibers similar to waterbase, then he has a different binder than traditional plastisol.
Curable reducer/Primer clear/softee base/fashion soft all have very soft resin choices: i.e plastisol that's extremely soft like soft lure baits. Which is why the print can be as soft as it is, along with additives enhancing that effect.
But what he is describing would have to go beyond that. Maybe some waxes that get ultra runny and can get into the fibers n stuff..... Throwing ideas to get the ball rolling.
Rocky definitely does not work along the lines of standard plastisol.
I am very curious.
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Andy:
If he is stating that it actually coats the shirt fibers similar to waterbase, then he has a different binder than traditional plastisol.
Curable reducer/Primer clear/softee base/fashion soft all have very soft resin choices: i.e plastisol that's extremely soft like soft lure baits. Which is why the print can be as soft as it is, along with additives enhancing that effect.
But what he is describing would have to go beyond that. Maybe some waxes that get ultra runny and can get into the fibers n stuff..... Throwing ideas to get the ball rolling.
Rocky definitely does not work along the lines of standard plastisol.
I am very curious.
I think the whole point is that non-opaque waterbased inks don't coat fibers as much as penetrate, more like a dye.
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I might order one of those kits, but DC has not been very good for us as we tend to print many different blends and colors which DC is very effy on.
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How much is one of these kits?
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Good Morning everybody.
Just to answer the question of pricing on the Watercolor Production Kit.
The kit comes with :
White
Black
Silver Gray
Gold
Scarlet
Med Royal
&
2 Port & Company PC450 Ring Spun Tees
$89.00
I also attached the spec sheet.
Thanks Guys
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Did a limited test with this ink last week, comparing the "Watercolor" white to our in-house vintage white mix (plastisol), as well as CCI's RFU mixing white (wb). No wash test yet, but here's what I've got so far:
Print parameters: 1-color design through 230 mesh, 70 duro squeegee, single pass flood/stroke on the 2 plastisol inks, double hit on the true wb. Printed to Bella Canvas 3001 black 100% cotton, and Next Level charcoal triblend.
Results: The differences were subtle. Printed thin onto dark colors, all three inks yield a tonal light-to-mid grey, as you'd likely expect. CCI wb is still the softest, but the Watercolor was very close; and the appearance of the two was virtually identical on cotton; on triblend, the CCI wb was faint - took 3-4 hits to match the Watercolor. Our own mix gave the brightest print, and is still soft enough to legitimately be in the same ballpark.
A few more observations on the Watercolor...
It was very thin, & moved on the screen much like the CCI wb. Much less viscous than our own mix, which itself isn't especially thick. Remarkably easy to print, and produced a very even deposit & tone. It probably had the softest hand of any plastisol I've felt... but it's a step away, not a world away, from what we do ourselves.
At this point, I'm interested in what I'm seeing, but the jury is still out. I'm looking forward to doing more tests, but I'm not yet convinced that it's that far beyond what we already do. I suppose if you're looking for an "out of the bucket" plastisol to use in lieu of wb, and don't want to mix anything yourself, this would likely be a great choice. (Um... as long as you're going do discharge when you need bright color on dark tees.) Whether it will supplant the soft hand mixes some of us already use remains to be seen.
And let me stress: this is a "first glance" opinion. I have in no way put the ink through it's paces. Just wanted to post since no else has yet said they've printed it I'm impressed with the innovation, and interested in looking into it more. Hopefully some others will join in & post their opinions as well!
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:)Thanks for the info - understand it's preliminary but your effort is appreciated and helpful.
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Good info for sure, my initial thoughts on this ink was an ink that would have the same characteristics as wb/dc without the fuss of mixing and ink drying in the screens.
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Good info for sure, my initial thoughts on this ink was an ink that would have the same characteristics as wb/dc without the fuss of mixing and ink drying in the screens.
It looks like it's getting into WB territory, but not DC. If you want bright colors on darks, you're still going to need a DC base. Now... if One Stroke manages to conquer that mountain, and gives us an opaque ink this soft, they will have truly built better a mousetrap.
One thing I could wish for in this ink: low cure, like their ELT series. With the ever-increasing number of finicky fashion fabrics we have to deal with, low cure is something we're really considering going with now. And ink this soft would be a good fit for such fabrics. (But I'd happily take a "close enough" additive that would work with their ELT series. The stretch is nice, but soft hand is needed, too. If they could do that, I think they'd give our shop some really good tools to work with.)
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I was wondering if you have had a chance to try any of the other Watercolor colors besides the white? The white is a slightly different formula than the colors in order to build in acceptable opacity. The other colors actually have a better hand on the shirt than the white does . And yes as soon as I find the time I am going to be working on an ELT version of the Watercolor ink.
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Could this be used with some kind of plasticharge additive to achieve the best of both worlds? I realize that would give the finished ink a shelf life/screen open time limit, but could avoid some of the pigment separation issues on the mixed ink (minus the additive just before printing).
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Used the inks on a job this morning. Right up front let me say that I've never printed waterbase, so I don't have anything to compare. Other than that I'm happy with the print and the hand is pretty soft. All the inks in the pic are One Stroke except for the cardinal which is Union. Print is on a Gildan sand color tee.
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Just got off the phone with One Stroke, thanks Tom for the pic that's what I'm looking for printed feedback, I would love to replace my DC inks with this ink because of the limits garments and disadvantage of my shops setup to run DC. Also Tom what about the drying in the screens? does it really act like a plastisol and you leave it and come back with no worry.
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Also Tom what about the drying in the screens? does it really act like a plastisol and you leave it and come back with worry.
No drying in the screens. Has a consistency slightly thicker then process ink. All colors were printed through 300 s-mesh. White was hit twice while wet, flashed, then the last three wet on wet.
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No drying in the screens. Has a consistency slightly thicker then process ink. All colors were printed through 300 s-mesh. White was hit twice while wet, flashed, then the last three wet on wet.
Did you print the white underneath anything other colors, or was that to it clean where white butted up against other colors?
If you printed on top of the white, how'd that go? Still super soft? Good texture?
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Prince Art, none of the colors were underbased.
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Yeah, didn't really expect so on sand tees. Still, curious what these ink would do if underbased, or used as an underbase. (I know they're intended to be printed w-o-w.)
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Just ordered One Strokes sample kit of water color inks, so once it gets here I'll see what it's all about or I've just tossed a little money away, but hoping it will take the place of some DC inks.
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It won't replace discharge. We ran a couple jobs with it. It has it's place. We are doing some on Next Level's heavy metal. I will try and post a pic.
It does give you a nice soft handed print. Not very bright though.
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That's what I'd like to us it for Next Level and Ringspun light color shirts, which will have nice pastel color
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Ok got my kit of inks awhile back, still have not used them all but what I do like is the black inks, most of us might say black ink is black ink, but it does have a print difference. Printing my regular black inks on light colors say white shirt without a nice medium to hard stroke or double stroke you can see something like pinholes in the ink if you hold the shirt up to light, but with One Strokes water color black it penetrated the shirt nice in one pass leaving a nice black solid print. what made me thing of this was reading another post and they talked about printing two blacks one for the picture the other for texts to get a nice solid black text, I believe if you use 1 Strokes black you could achieve this in one print pass and get a nice black text and pic with halftones. These inks might have a place in my shop once I get more into them, plus the print is soft hand.
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We just ran our first sample of the white, a single hit on a Canvas tri-blend dark heather, then a PFP; the PFP looked a little, well, plasticky... the single hit didn't cover, but looked perfectly natural, and the customer really liked it, which counts the most. Through a 230 mesh for those wondering. As someone said, it has it's place...
Steve
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Hi everybody,
I just wanted to post some Watercolor pics from our great customers. These guys & gals have pushed the Watercolor series to new limits with great success.
We have a wide range of mesh that was used, everything from 158 - 305.
WOW printing, not a problem.
Soft prints, not problem.
Golf towels, not a problem.
If you are looking for something new, something that will speed up your production. Look no further. Give this series try, you will not be sorry .
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Show me white on CC pig dyed Crimson ;)
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I don't think these are intended to be bleed resistant Tony.
But let's see these after 5 wash/dry cycles. Fibrilation is always the enemy in this application.
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I do like the idea of bringing small towels back into the fold for some customers and may also be something nice for a couple of yoga clothing customers I have, though they are very happy with our work, all plastisol.
Steve
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Hi everybody,
I just wanted to post some Watercolor pics from our great customers. These guys & gals have pushed the Watercolor series to new limits with great success.
We have a wide range of mesh that was used, everything from 158 - 305.
WOW printing, not a problem.
Soft prints, not problem.
Golf towels, not a problem.
If you are looking for something new, something that will speed up your production. Look no further. Give this series try, you will not be sorry .
Can you tell use what the print procedure was for the whites we're seeing? I was under the impression a discharge base (or a heavier plastisol base) was necessary to obtain bright colors & whites on dark substrates with this ink.
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Also Tom what about the drying in the screens? does it really act like a plastisol and you leave it and come back with worry.
No drying in the screens. Has a consistency slightly thicker then process ink. All colors were printed through 300 s-mesh. White was hit twice while wet, flashed, then the last three wet on wet.
I was wondering about the white, double stroke of course. When we tested the white, the single hit was pleasing, but PFP not so much. Sometimes I'm so busy I forget the obvious.
Steve
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This print was all Watercolor
156 WC White
Flash
Colors was put thru 200 mesh ( WOW )
156 Highlight White
Cure 320
Very soft print !
Hope this helps
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Any one using One Strokes new water color plastisol inks Pros/Cons this what they say
Replace water-based inks with a plastisol inks and get your freedom back. No longer do you need a special emulsion. Ink will not dry in your screen. You won't need excessive cure times to evaporate the water in the ink. Watercolor solves so many problems.
I have been using their water color inks for about 6 months. PRO's Prints like water color soft feel. CON's you need a spoon to get it from the bucket to the screen it is runny, you got to be fast using spatula. Also using their white Hybrid, flashes fast. Good opacity. One pass works on some things, other need pfp.
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This print was all Watercolor
156 WC White
Flash
Colors was put thru 200 mesh ( WOW )
156 Highlight White
Cure 320
Very soft print !
Hope this helps
It does, thanks, keeps the guess work down...
Steve
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digging this back up. Who has continued working with the Watercolor series?