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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on August 14, 2014, 01:17:51 PM
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What have you paid and what brand?
Looking for about 24-28 cfm with an onboard chiller.
I have seen pricing anywhere between 5k-10k.
Also how about rotary vane compressors? I know JBlue runs one. Any others?
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I found that the following website offers good pricing and they have good service. Might want to check them out.
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/ (http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/)
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I got a Chicago Pneumatic rotary, 7.5hp with chiller attached for $5150. This was last December. It was this one: http://www.compressorworld.com/rotary-screw-air-compressors/tank-mounted-rotary-screw-air-compressors/7-5-hp-chicago-pneumatic-rotary-screw-air-compressor-with-tank-and-dryer-208-230-460-3-60-qrs7-5-hpd.html (http://www.compressorworld.com/rotary-screw-air-compressors/tank-mounted-rotary-screw-air-compressors/7-5-hp-chicago-pneumatic-rotary-screw-air-compressor-with-tank-and-dryer-208-230-460-3-60-qrs7-5-hpd.html)
Got it on sale.
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I hear the elite brand is the Kaesers? What do those run?
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I got an ir 7.5 unigy. It is a total piece of garbage. In 5 years I had it running less than 120 days total, not straight. It was just over $8k. Please just make sure that you buy from someone that has a good reputation so that you are covered if something goes wrong.
Good luck,
matt
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Chicago Pneumatic (aka Atlas Copco) QRS15. Bought it lightly used for $4500, costs $8k new. Rotary screw so no more yelling to the person beside to make sure they hear.
Kaeser is the elite brand but they run 30-40% more than most rotary screw compressors. Finding a lightly used well taken care of compressor is the way to go.
edit:
our 7.5hp reciprocating Champion was about $3500 with a chiller and filter separate.
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We have the 7.5 QRS Chicago Pneumatic Rotary Screw with chiller and have not had a single problem so far in 6 years.
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Chicago Pneumatic QRS 7.5 with chiller here too. Bought in March of 2012. Was right over $5K to our door. Not a single issue with it. The embroidery machine across the shop is louder than the compressor.
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Kinda surprised with all the Chicago Pneumatics, ill give them a look
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This seems like a good buy but a little light on the CFM
http://www.compressorworld.com/rotary-screw-air-compressors/total-air-systems/7-5-hp-quincy-rotary-screw-air-compressor-with-60-gallon-tank-dryer-208-230-460-3-60-qgs7-5hpd.html (http://www.compressorworld.com/rotary-screw-air-compressors/total-air-systems/7-5-hp-quincy-rotary-screw-air-compressor-with-60-gallon-tank-dryer-208-230-460-3-60-qgs7-5hpd.html)
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We have several Ingersol Rand compressors that have been very dependable. They are amazingly quiet. I just received a quote a few weeks ago.
10HP (38cfm) for $7K and 15hp (55cfm) for $7.6K
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Chicago Pneumatic 7.5 with chiller here too - we were able to find one on Craigslist new with a small dent on the top for about $4200.
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I noticed on some compressors it makes you choose operating pressure, like 125 psi and 150 psi, which would you choose and why?
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Lower pressure delivers more CFM and is easier on your equipment. If you have the option, choose to regulate to about 100psi. If you don't have the option, you'll want to be your own regulator so you can adjust the psi delivered to the press.
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I have an Ingersoll Rand 5hp 3 phase 125 psi. I paid just under 5k with built in chiller. I would opt not to have the built in chiller next time. My last chiller ran on demand. Built in chiller on IR only runs when comp is running. I LOVE that it's quiet, but the moisture meter goes just to moist before the compressor actually turns on. We have a bunch of air stuff and a 10/12 sportsman and it doesn't run all day. Even running a 4 color job at 700 pieces an hour is plenty of time for the comp to get a two or so minute break between start ups.
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I hear the elite brand is the Kaesers? What do those run?
We have a BOGE 25 horser out here.. I don't want to know how much that cost :o
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I have a 7.5 kaeser, separate chiller. When I looked I believe the all-in-one unit was in the neighborhood of 8k. Buying separately I saved around 1k-$1500 dollars. More space but cheaper price
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So nobody ever looked into rotary vane compressors? Been researching and it seems the better way to go and priced about the same.
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So nobody ever looked into rotary vane compressors? Been researching and it seems the better way to go and priced about the same.
When Jason brought it up a year or so ago I looked into them and I liked what I saw... But I know nothing more than what you do probably.
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Lots of cfm, lower pressures, generate a lot of heat. Used in many cases for "fluffing" dry bulk material to pump it where you need a lot of volume and less pressure. Vans and barrel are prone to wear, usually higher hp to achieve higher pressure. Also prone to a loud hum or whine noise not unlike most employes.
If the vanes wear to a certain point they can fall out of their slot which usually ends up being a catastrophic failure.
Not saying don't get one but be sure you know what your getting.
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So would the rotary vane require a high temp air dryer as opposed to a regular refrigerated dryer? I think I may need a high temp anyway. I noticed on some that the recommended ambient temp for a refrigerated air dryer is 110 degrees. I know it's hotter than that in my shop during the summer.
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The air is not as hot as a piston type but the pump it self gets hot just from the friction of the vanes and air.
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hmmm they (rotary vane mfgs) tout them as having less friction and less wear than the rotary screw and will outlast a screw 2-3 times over due to that.
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Less friction then a screw yes but wear I find hard to believe. But you would also have to compare apples to apples to make that statement. We had vane type that would be overhauled by the factory every 10-15k hrs as per their service schedule. Screw compressors sitting next the them with 30-35k hrs and other then routine service were never touched.
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Thanks Brian, got alot to consider. Hard to make a decision when it cost between 6-8K. I have a tough time spending 100 bucks!
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Now another wrench... Variable speed or fixed speed rotary screw?
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We have a variable speed screw compressor that we bought new from Atlas Copco. I think all together it was $10k. We already had a seperate chiller that was compatible.
Nothing to complain about. Runs great, easy to use, and service for A.C. is awesome.
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I just thought of something. Could I buy a base mounted rotary screw and plumb it into my existing air compressors tank?
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I just thought of something. Could I buy a base mounted rotary screw and plumb it into my existing air compressors tank?
Absolutely you can do this.... just get the right size hoses/fittings, and away you go.
You do want to make sure that your existing tank is in good shape and ASME stamped to handle the pressure.
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One last question and I am done with my research I hope. I noticed most compressors you have to specify your psi when ordering, like 125 and 150 psi are most common. What is recommended as it pertains to us since most press specs are xx cfm @ 100 psi. Would a 125 psi compressor run more often than a 150 psi?
I think what im trying to ask what difference would a 125 psi over a 150 psi be since the air is regulated at the press to be about 100 psi?
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One last question and I am done with my research I hope. I noticed most compressors you have to specify your psi when ordering, like 125 and 150 psi are most common. What is recommended as it pertains to us since most press specs are xx cfm @ 100 psi. Would a 125 psi compressor run more often than a 150 psi?
I think what im trying to ask what difference would a 125 psi over a 150 psi be since the air is regulated at the press to be about 100 psi?
More PSI in the tank the less it will run.
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One last question and I am done with my research I hope. I noticed most compressors you have to specify your psi when ordering, like 125 and 150 psi are most common. What is recommended as it pertains to us since most press specs are xx cfm @ 100 psi. Would a 125 psi compressor run more often than a 150 psi?
I think what im trying to ask what difference would a 125 psi over a 150 psi be since the air is regulated at the press to be about 100 psi?
More PSI in the tank the less it will run.
Cool 150 psi it is!
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One last question and I am done with my research I hope. I noticed most compressors you have to specify your psi when ordering, like 125 and 150 psi are most common. What is recommended as it pertains to us since most press specs are xx cfm @ 100 psi. Would a 125 psi compressor run more often than a 150 psi?
I think what im trying to ask what difference would a 125 psi over a 150 psi be since the air is regulated at the press to be about 100 psi?
More PSI in the tank the less it will run.
Cool 150 psi it is!
Will also take a bit longer to get to that PSI from empty, but on these screw compressors it takes no time.
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That shouldn't be an issue with them running so quiet. I am getting really tired of hearing our compressor run and run and run and run
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That shouldn't be an issue with them running so quiet. I am getting really tired of hearing our compressor run and run and run and run
My Screw is right next to my press.
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Isn't it the more psi the less cfm? At least on std piston type.
Shane
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I believe you are correct but if you have a regulator at your press regulating air at 100 psi does it matter whether your compressor is 125,150 or 175 psi?
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But that only controls psi not CFM. That was my point the higher the psi the lower the cfm usually. A regulator doesn't effect that part. But if the press eats air(CFM) up, then less psi unless you get a bigger compressor to compensate for higher psi if needed. Since I don't have 3 phase I had to biggest 7.5 single phase I could find, and when not in use I disconnect and block of the head I don't run to minimize compressor running more than it has to. That why I keep think of newer press as well as other things.
Shane
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I thought the lower the psi the higher the cfm regardless of your compressor of being 125 or 150 psi.
Lets say a compressor puts out:
25 cfm @100 psi
23 cfm @125 psi
20 cfm @150 psi
My thoughts were even if your compressor is running 20 cfm or 23 cfm at 150 and 125 psi respectively that when it gets to the regulator and you regulate that down to 100 psi you would end up at the 25 cfm since the lower the psi the higher the cfm. Im sure im probably wrong as im no expert whatsoever but that's how my brain is processing it.
Although looking at the specs on these 2 machines makes me wonder:
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/FS-Curtis-SEG0723012R-Air-Compressor/p11331.html (http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/FS-Curtis-SEG0723012R-Air-Compressor/p11331.html)
http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/FS-Curtis-SEG0723015R-Air-Compressor/p11333.html (http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/FS-Curtis-SEG0723015R-Air-Compressor/p11333.html)
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Our will very likely be for sale in the next month or two. Also a 7.5hp CPN, total air system.
One thing about the psi...I would go for the 150. Unless you have a perfectly laid out, closed loop system with quality, smooth wall pipe and few 90s than your going to see serious pressure drop. I think common air runs are branched all over and a mish mash of different piping and fittings, so it's something to consider.
I was also surprised at how fast you can outgrow a 7.5hp, looking at 15hp now, would like 25 with extra tanks really.
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That is my point, I personally would look at the 28 cfm at 90psi first.
Shane
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Higher pressure = more stress = more heat as well.
But that's all I know, Brian would be the one I'd like to hear from.
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IMO run higher pressure and larger pipe to the press, give it all you can and let the regulator do it's job. Pressure drop shouldn't be a factor under 100' run, average of 1psi drop per 100' @ 100psi. Each fitting in a system including couplings is equal to 5' of run. That being said 50' of run and 10 fittings is equal to 100' of run.
At this point your splitting hairs on CFM and pressure. Another thing to consider is the compressor outlet, filters and dryers, if they are 1/2" the flow is restricted anyway down to roughly 18 CFM.
Personally I would rather have a free standing compressor unit and remote tanks preferably someplace out of the way like the overhead or wasted space above a office or something. For larger volume add compressors and tanks for redundancy and needs. In a perfect shop two screw compressors with dryers maybe 15-30 cfm each and tow or three 200 gallon tanks. Set it up to have a high and low, the high does most of the work the low kicks in when needed. Go one step further and set it up so you can run one as the high for three months then switch it to be low for three months. In reality if a 10 color press is rated for 20 cfm chances are most of the time it's only consuming maybe 10 cfm. The rated cfm is it running full bore all heads, on an eight color and most of your jobs are three your only using roughly a third of the rated cfm. Not saying to short yourself but consider it.
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Running our CHIIID 12 color on a 5hp screw. Never a issue. :D
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Thanks for the write up Brian.
My current 5 horse delivers about 15 cfm and the M&R tech who assembled the press said that it wasn't enough and could not get the press to index smoothly due to it, so the press runs rough and does not table lift smoothly and hits the reg gates thus my search for a new compressor. I believe he said the press would need at least 28 cfm if I remember correctly for him to be able to get the press to run smooth.
This is what FS-Curtis said the difference between the 125 and 150 psi units are:
When the compressor is assembled for the 150 psi maximum pressure the pulleys are sized for that maximum pressure. The air end will run slower than the 125 psi pressure. You will not see a rise in cfm if you set the un-load pressure lower than the 150 psi because the speed of the air end is the same. Cfm is based on speed and time.