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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: prozyan on September 27, 2011, 02:35:52 PM
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I think Wilflex Buffalo White is my favorite white ink. I do use about three different kinds though.
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Check out CCI's Festive White and Baja Black.
The Festive is incredibly print friendly, super soft out of the bucket.
Consequently not as opaque as most others but a great underbase ink, especially for
sim-process type stuff. Plus it's less than half of my current favorite for a 5.
Baja Black is a good basic printable black, also very inexpensive.
If CCI gets in the pigment game I think I'll have one supplier.
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I, my printer, realy like the white ink we get from printficiant. Aaaaaaa dang keep forgeting his name, (CRS)
It's smooth, ready to go, sometimes we use a little reducer, but after several different whites, I used to like International Coatings before, this is the one we get in 5 gallon buckets now. Almost mistook it for mayonases once?
Terry
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I use the Regular white from Xenon, covers well, creamy, but, dang, it climbs the squeegee.
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WM Plastics Ultimate white!!!
Smooooooth and easy to print......... :P
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We used Wilfex Buffalo white for years, my main objection to it (though we all liked it) was the blowing agent aka puff content in the ink. We got turned onto IC 7031 Ultra white a couple years ago and it prints opaquely like Buffalo but sans the puff, we like the looks of our prints better that way, detail prints/halftones suffer a bit IMO when there's puff in the ink.
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I use the Regular white from Xenon, covers well, creamy, but, dang, it climbs the squeegee.
Yea, what's up with the squeegee climbing? I use Union Premium 1030 and it's creamy and covers great but that squeegee climbing thing can be annoying with this ink too.
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I won't defend any ink that fails.
That said,
I think the squeegee climbing occurs more often when the grunt gets tired..not sure how that rolls on an auto.
Noticed it happening more often lately to myself.
( new kids get it non-stop though, so I gotta laugh a bit )
haha.
;D
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WM Plastics Ultimate white!!!
Smooooooth and easy to print......... :P
We use this and Xenon. The only thing I dont like about Ultimate white is they put to much puff in it.
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I use the Regular white from Xenon, covers well, creamy, but, dang, it climbs the squeegee.
Been awhile since I manually printed, but what is this climbing ink thing?
Is it static? Is it just your magnetic personallity?
Seriously, sounds like static?
Terry
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I was gonna ask about static. I was in the middle of printing a 100 pc run pfp on black shirts with white ink and started getting static. I would get shocked when pulling the shirt off and the ink would not clear the screen as easy as it did at the start of the run. This happened about 60-70 shirts in.
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It's that time of year. Static is building up.
I can't remember how to get rid of it,
Somebody here will remember and report
Terry
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Ugh, I remember getting shocked on the nipple a couple years back. The static was terrible and I was trying to avoid getting shocked every shirt, but I let it go to long and it arced about 2 inches to zap the piss out of my nipple. Ouch
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There isn't any magic whites out there.. unless you make them yourselves.
To thick.. add some reducer and stir it up.
To thin.. add some thickener paste or Cabasil powder.
Need a brite hilite-white, add a toothpick poke of reflex blue
Need it to flash faster, add fast flash additive
Take this to heart..
Ink can't think, only the idiot holding the bucket can.
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There isn't any magic whites out there.. unless you make them yourselves.
To thick.. add some reducer and stir it up.
To thin.. add some thickener paste or Cabasil powder.
Need a brite hilite-white, add a toothpick poke of reflex blue
Need it to flash faster, add fast flash additive
Take this to heart..
Ink can't think, only the idiot holding the bucket can.
This is the best advice. Well said sir!!!!!
Although the Epic Sprint white is pretty damn good. I just ran a gallon of it on a couple of jobs and I was pretty impressed. It wont work for 50/50's but I avoid those when I can.
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I use the Regular white from Xenon, covers well, creamy, but, dang, it climbs the squeegee.
Been awhile since I manually printed, but what is this climbing ink thing?
Is it static? Is it just your magnetic personallity?
Seriously, sounds like static?
Terry
No, what I'm talking about is due to one of the characteristics of the ink, I assume body, but we need one of our ink experts to help.
What happens is with some inks, they seem to collect on the squeegee, and eventually creep up past the blade more than other inks will.
I am pretty sure that it would do the same on a manual as an automatic. I also get the impression of these inks being whipped or aerated like some machine packed ice creams.
It's not a deal breaker, but it adds a little mess.
And I only thin an ink if it doesn't clear the screen otherwise. Most whites that I have seen for the last five or so years have greatly increased in printability, and I do nothing but stir, and warm when necessary.
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
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There isn't any magic whites out there.. unless you make them yourselves.
To thick.. add some reducer and stir it up.
To thin.. add some thickener paste or Cabasil powder.
Need a brite hilite-white, add a toothpick poke of reflex blue
Need it to flash faster, add fast flash additive
Actually JS you got it backwards there but I suppose most people got it.
Reducer=thins
Cabosil=thickens
Take this to heart..
Ink can't think, only the idiot holding the bucket can.
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
I have to say Sonny’s white (Xenon White) is the best one I have used to date. It does need some reducer. The price is great. I have to have it shipped and it is still cheaper than getting a low bleed white locally. I really wish Xenon would get a website. Maybe someone can build them one for trade???
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Just about every Union ink is sold as "Ready For Use", even the Maxo's. There is no way in heck that some of them can be used as is, even with pre-stirring. I think a lot if noobs may struggle at times because, well, Union said they're good to go straight from the container.
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I've used so many different whites over the last few years I can't even remember them. Right now we are using Rutland Snap and adding a tad bit of qcm 159 to it. On poly blends we use the 159 only.
The ultimate from wm plastics had way too much puff in it and we used every one stroke white they make and they were all ok, but I've been taking John's advice and pretty much making our own with 2 or more different whites and mixing them to make an ink with the characteristics that I like.
There are some major squeegee climbers out there right now and that is a deal breaker for me, I can't stand it. You have to put in so much ink on a long run and it ends up climbing so high that it will reach the squeegee and FB locks and then when you tear the job down, you get giant blobs of ink all over you. I've added reducer to them only to find that it takes too much reducer to get them to slump a little more therefore taking away the ink's opacity by a good margin.
Another deal breaker for me is flash time. I've never had any flash additive on hand to try so if the ink doesn't flash fast out of the bucket, that's it, gone.
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Just about every Union ink is sold as "Ready For Use", even the Maxo's. There is no way in heck that some of them can be used as is, even with pre-stirring. I think a lot if noobs may struggle at times because, well, Union said they're good to go straight from the container.
Actually, Union has addressed this in their Articles section (http://www.unionink.com/). Here are two myths they debunk that are relevant to this discussion.
My ink is ready to use, as is, straight from the container!
Inks are never ready to use, as is, straight from the container. For one thing, they must always be stirred, both prior to use and before adding any viscosity modifiers.
During storage plastisol often develops what is called “false body”—also known as the ink’s resting or static viscosity. Plastisol inks are thixotropic in nature, meaning they will become thinner during movement, such as when stirred or when the squeegee and floodbar push the ink around during the printing process.
Frequently, simply stirring the ink reduces its viscosity and saves the printer the cost of the reducer and the time it takes to mix it in. What’s more, if you unnecessarily add reducer and over-thin the ink, stirring would also have saved the cost of throwing out the unusable ink or adding a thickener to get its viscosity back.
Reducing my high-opacity ink will reduce my opacity!
Contrary to popular belief, you can reduce a high-opacity ink without reducing opacity. In fact, you can increase the opacity of such an ink by adding reducer. Because of the components and pigment loads used to give a high-opacity ink this quality, over time the viscosity may get to the point where a reasonable amount of stirring prior to use will not render it any easier to print. Additionally, with designs on black garments requiring finer detail and higher opacity, you will find yourself from time to time utilizing finer mesh counts that could pose a challenge to high-opacity inks completely clearing the screen and stencil. If this is the case, a small amount of curable or balanced reducer (2-5 percent by weight) can be added to the ink to lower its viscosity to a printable level. Depending upon the type of ink and its initial viscosity, a 2-5 percent addition of curable reducer can reduce the viscosity by as much as 20-25 percent, making it easier to print and more prone to clear the mesh. If all the ink clears the mesh and sits up on top of the garment due to this modification, it will actually look more opaque. Be careful to accurately measure the reducer because, in this case, you can quickly get too much of a good thing and cause the ink to penetrate into the garment.
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Loving the Streetfighter but as you can see we are all different. Works for me on all cottons, blends, performance wear. Phthalate free and $195 per five free delivery.
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I love the name Streetfighter. I think it's better than Ultimate, Special, Awesome, blah, blah.
It's nice to see an ink with a cool name. Tony, who sells Rutland around here?
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Call Mike Maccaroni @ ANC in Norcross. Quiet company , good resource. Also carries QCM. Bunch of other stuff. Love the no hard sell approach.
770-441-5900
PM me for cell if you like
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HAHA, the Maccaroni's, how long have they been in this business. I buy from them already, it's just hard to keep track of who carries what.
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Mike is an old salt and a classic vet of the industry. That guy gets around.
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I've been using the QCM158 for a while. No issues.
I think the squeegee climbing is more an issue for the autos than the manual. With a manual you can quickly drop a lot of the ink of your squeegee before your print stroke. I do this before every print stroke and never have an issue on a print run. With the auto I find it will climb and climb until you get in there and card it off.
Is their a connection between being a squeegee climber and being a pthylate free ink?
Sonny, if the ink is recommended to add a bit of reducer to it, why doesn't Xenon put a little in when they make it, making it RFU? I am probably missing something on this I am assuming.
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I've been using the QCM158 for a while. No issues.
I think the squeegee climbing is more an issue for the autos than the manual. With a manual you can quickly drop a lot of the ink of your squeegee before your print stroke. I do this before every print stroke and never have an issue on a print run. With the auto I find it will climb and climb until you get in there and card it off.
Is their a connection between being a squeegee climber and being a pthylate free ink?
Sonny, if the ink is recommended to add a bit of reducer to it, why doesn't Xenon put a little in when they make it, making it RFU? I am probably missing something on this I am assuming.
The ink prints fine. Plenty on squeegee. People panic with dry floods. If the ink is on the squeegee then the flood is not as important. I have always had as a procedure that anyone walking past the press look at the screens and push the ink as needed. This means anyone.
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
Is this the same Xenon?
http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx (http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx)
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Sure, that's their site. I figured that Screened Gear was talking about an interactive site from which he could order. If not, I'm sure that he appreciates your link.
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
Maybe the next gallon I order, you could include a cup of reducer. ;D
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Their CR is good stuff. I also like how they put it in a jug instead of a stupid bucket. A jug is so much easier to use.
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I don't think anyone has mentioned Wilflex Bright Tiger. I use this all the time and its great, it does puff up alittle bit but overall a very good white at a very low price.
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I don't think anyone has mentioned Wilflex Bright Tiger. I use this all the time and its great, it does puff up alittle bit but overall a very good white at a very low price.
I use it for highlight whites. It does have a blowing agent in it so sometimes that does get in the way but over all its a good top white. Are you using it for a base too? We have never had good results using it as a base white.
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I have used the Wilflex Artist white as a base or a highlight on my manual.
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I don't recall the Artist having the puff (or as much of it) as the Tiger. Hate the puff, hate it.
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
Is this the same Xenon?
[url]http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx[/url] ([url]http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx[/url])
That is the first time I have seen the site. Its worthless to me. No real product descriptions and no prices. Plus you can't order anything. Sorry Sonny but you need to put some of the money from your white ink into making the site better.
The white ink only needs a little reducer not a cup. Maybe an ounce or two per gallon then mix in good. I like printing with it right from the bucket on my manual. Mix it good then print. On the auto I have to reduce it a little more to keep the ink down and flowing. (I have 2 winged floods on their way from Action, can’t wait.)
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With our white (Xenon) the reason for the body it has is that we do not use puffing agents for our bleed blockers. We use a plasticizer. The ink is manufactured on the outer edges of its performance envelope. A little curable reducer is all you need to break the body and not lose any performance.
Is this the same Xenon?
[url]http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx[/url] ([url]http://xenonproducts.com/default.aspx[/url])
Yes. The website is not very informative though. The owners don't want to spend the money to update so that our prices can stay where they are
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I understand that since their products are mostly sold through distributors and usually they are more familiar with a shops needs and how a product should work for them.
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I am a One Stroke hybrid... tried Xenon but did not like to add reducer each gallon cost is about $12 per gal more but the flash and coverage is awesome! I had a little trouble with the Xenon white on the flashing. Sonny called and I talked to R&D but I just could not get it down on the flash-back to do right... I like to get my shirts a good 340 degrees going through the dryer and Sonny said his cures at 320 ( I think that was it ) and that I could over cure the white. Although I do know you can bubble ink if dryer is too hot. Have done that before :(