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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Gilligan on April 18, 2012, 05:45:20 PM
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And it just doesn't get any better.
Coated 10 screens last night back to back and the last one felt just as bad as the 2nd one (the first was was VERY awkward).
Trying one handed... maybe I need to get a jig and use the two hand technique. I gave a half hearted try at two handed a while back and just managed to drip emulsion on my screen so I didn't really like that way... but maybe I need to try again.
Can't be much worse that my piss-poor attempts now!
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And it just doesn't get any better.
Coated 10 screens last night back to back and the last one felt just as bad as the 2nd one (the first was was VERY awkward).
Trying one handed... maybe I need to get a jig and use the two hand technique. I gave a half hearted try at two handed a while back and just managed to drip emulsion on my screen so I didn't really like that way... but maybe I need to try again.
Can't be much worse that my piss-poor attempts now!
rest the screen against something at an angle at waist height (make sure it can not move when you push against it). Use two hands, bring the coater to the mesh level and tilt it. The side of the scoop should be resting flat against the mesh. Hold with both hands and put your fingertips on the tiny lip on what's now bottom of the coater (almost touching the mesh). Hold wide apart. Push in pretty hard and move up slowly and evenly. It should take you almost three seconds to go to the top of the big screens, probably about two or just slightly more for the 20x24's. You should be pushing hard enough that the mesh should be making crackling noises and you should be worrying about breaking it. The noises are usually coming from the side where the mesh is glued to the frame. I am almost tempted to say, push until you break one and then back off, but that would be too much.
let me know how that works out for you.
pierre
p.s. see signature!
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I never could get the hang of one handed coating but I didnt try to many times. I was trained to do it two handed and im used to it now. I also got away from using the sharp edge, I pretty much coat everything 2/2 now.
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Not sure if you're doing this already, but
rest the frame on top of a shirt box/milk crate with one hand, coat with the other.
The hand holding the frame is also used to flip it around.
After both sides are coated, learn to set the scoop down without any slop.
Having a higher table close by helps.
Place the frame wherever you're drying it and grab another.
If you get any slop on the edges of the coater, wipe it off, or you will have extra grief.
I angle the frame as I'm setting the coater into position against the mesh, then tilt the frame
up to it..almost vertical, I believe, then do the coat..hard to explain, but it's a fluid motion.
Gotta tip the coater to the mesh tight and quick.
You will make a mess, I'm sure we all have as we learned.
Fortunately, there are always more screens to coat, so you will get lots of practice.
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I've done it both ways and one handed is by far easier once you get the hang of it, at least it is for me. I learned coating two handed with it resting on a table and wall and it worked great at the time. I coated about 20 screens with one hand the traditional way with the frame on the ground and leaning over and using one hand, I'll never go back to using a two handed coating technique. I just have more control and have a much smoother coat by pulling up rather than pushing forward and up. I'd recommend everyone who does it two handed to coat a full rack using the one handed technique and tell me if you don't get better at it than the two handed method. I've got gorilla hands so that might play a roll but I doubt it.
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On the ground you say huh?
Doesn't wear out your back? Just counting some shirts in a box today I had to stand up and stretch! LOL
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I use my light table. I put an open newspaper section where I'm working.
I cut a few cardboard "squeegees" cut to the profile of the inside of my coater. These are to help return the unused emulsion to the bucket when I'm through, but also help with drips and/or minor spills. I keep a paper towel handy as well.
I hold the frame at a slight angle, maybe 25 degrees, with the bottom against the table (not my big belly as may have been reported elsewhere.) One hand on the coater, and then it's pretty much just holding the coater level (not spilling out of one end or the other, angling it so the flat spot is touching (or in my case, almost touching) the mesh, and a steady trip up the print side of the mesh. probably take about 3-4 seconds to make the 24" trip. Flip end to end and repeat. That usually achieves the glisten state.
Rotate to the squeegee side and repeat.
However many coats on the print side it takes to get an even and glistening look on the inside, always finish with two in there.
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for what it is worth have a look
mooseman
coating screens #2 DSCF0803.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4jDunOBEvQ#)
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One handed for me, the closer I get to the to top of the screen the more vertical I make the screen so when I'm finished with my stroke I can shear off the emulsion without any drips. Any soft areas I card out the best I can but a good way to avoid that is not using a coater that's too wide to begin with. I find this to be the best way so your not turning your wrist with the screen keeping a constant angle and force.
I used to card on my emusion and smooth it out the best I could as they show you on speedball kits.
I can tell you I hated the coater for awhile until I got the hang of it and spilled alot of costly emulsion!
You'll get it!
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I cant even imagine doing it with 2 hands, that sounds crazy.
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Hey, it'll get worse, sooner or later you'll dump some emulsion in your shoe. :o
One handed was easier for me to pick up than two, and at this point I would at least double if not triple my time coating if I did it two handed...but I got 'gorilla hands' too. (great description ;D )
The other thing you might want to try is switching hands--I write, draw, and bat right handed, paint and coat left handed, and print ambidextrously.... go figure.
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It just seems to me 2 handed with the screen in a fixed position would give you a more even coating. When I did 1 handed a few times the coating was so uneven. Not saying that 2 is better than 1 handed but it seems the beginner would have an easier time coating when first starting out. I guess in the end if you are satisfied with your end result screens then what's it matter.
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practice is the only answer! I would suggest learning one handed, the emulsion rep even teaches it that way.
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last I tried was about a month ago and its a back killer, well for me anyway. 6 ft 240 lbs bent over like that doesn't take long for pain to set in, lol
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for what it is worth have a look
mooseman
Nice demonstration Mike.
I've been meaning to call you, but I'll ask here. We have had conversations before about taping and i know how you tape the inside. I don't know if I ever asked. Do you tape over the locking strips when you're done for protection? And if so, any special tape or just what you got from the dollar store?
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Hey Wayne,
for mesh protectors we use Gorilla Tape. the stuff is duct tape on sterroids or how ever youi spell it.
Roll out a length slice it down the middle with a razor knife and throw it on the mesh as a protector.
We cut the corners at @ a 45 degree angel to help keep the corners from coming up. We have been BETA testing this so to speak for about 3 weeks so far so good. It holds up well to reclaim with franmar chemicals, (so far) we do not use dip tanks so i can't comment on that. But this stuff sure does put a real barrier to mesh damage. Not sure how it will come off but duct tape on sterroids is putting it mildly.
About $10.00 / roll at America's gateway to china ....walmart
mooseman
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coating screens is something one`s gotta keep doing
otherwise after a few months not coating the mechanical motion can become rusty
Nice technique Mike
Gabe
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Hey Wayne,
for mesh protectors we use Gorilla Tape. the stuff is duct tape on sterroids or how ever youi spell it.
Roll out a length slice it down the middle with a razor knife and throw it on the mesh as a protector.
We cut the corners at @ a 45 degree angel to help keep the corners from coming up. We have been BETA testing this so to speak for about 3 weeks so far so good. It holds up well to reclaim with franmar chemicals, (so far) we do not use dip tanks so i can't comment on that. But this stuff sure does put a real barrier to mesh damage. Not sure how it will come off but duct tape on sterroids is putting it mildly.
About $10.00 / roll at America's gateway to china ....walmart
mooseman
Thanks Mike. Just so happens, with all the other tapes I have here, I actually do have a roll of Gorilla tape I got from the "subway" to China...Home Depot. Hell, there are so many gateways to China, it looks like an exploding Super Nova sitting on top of the country.
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for what it is worth have a look
mooseman
coating screens #2 DSCF0803.AVI ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4jDunOBEvQ#[/url])
Holy crap, a vid made just for my sorry a$$! Thanks man... VERY much appreciate it.
Now, the questions:
How is that working... I feel like if I were to tip my coater over that much I'd have a HUGE mess. As it is now I get a pretty heavy bead running where my coater stops because of it basically "coming around the side" as I coat. That seems to defy the laws of physics... it looks like your coater is almost upside down on that mesh.
Should the coater be turned against the mesh to the point that the edge rides flat along the top (open) area of the coater? Is that how it keeps from spilling around the edges as you go?
I'm just baffled by that... gonna watch again at full screen and look more carefully.
For the record, I've been pretty good and haven't really spilled much... those few drips when I tried the two handed way and a few spots here and there, mostly from getting the FULL emulsion gallon into the scoop coater when I first got it. Luckily my drips were on my "test screen" anyway so it didn't much matter that I screwed it up.
I kind of feel like it's one of those things... if you aren't making a mess then you are doing it wrong... at least in the learning phase. Because I'm not making a mess and I'm certainly not doing it right!
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last I tried was about a month ago and its a back killer, well for me anyway. 6 ft 240 lbs bent over like that doesn't take long for pain to set in, lol
Wow Gerry... I had the exact opposite image of you. I thought of you as a scrawny little guy. (not that there is anything wrong with that... I was scrawny till I got fat! LOL )
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Lol that's funny cause that's how I pictured you! I guess it's the Gilligan picture I have in my head. About 13 years ago when I first met my wife I was 150 lbs soaking wet but now I get 3 hefty square meals a day and 90 lbs later... Yeah all my wife's fault!
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Should the coater be turned against the mesh to the point that the edge rides flat along the top (open) area of the coater? Is that how it keeps from spilling around the edges as you go?
I'm just baffled by that... gonna watch again at full screen and look more carefully.
Tada!!!!!
Watched it again and I saw that the coater had emulsion on that top perpendicular edge and that the emulsion had coated a line almost straight up the center of the sidewalls!! So that IS the trick... no wonder the coater is designed like it is *doh*! It's all so obvious now.
Well, I bet I can do twice as good now that I've seen how a "Pro" ;) does it!
Now, I'm geeked up to try it again!
If a picture is worth a thousand words I must owe you BIG time for that vid!
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Lol that's funny cause that's how I pictured you! I guess it's the Gilligan picture I have in my head. About 13 years ago when I first met my wife I was 150 lbs soaking wet but now I get 3 hefty square meals a day and 90 lbs later... Yeah all my wife's fault!
Well, I had that pic of me holding up that big ol Black Drum on the fishing thread... but that was about 30lbs ago.
I also partly blame the wife... she went to school for cooking... so she LOVES to cook (bake specifically) and LOVES the use of Butter and Cream!
Hell, she made a "cookies and cream" desert the other day and I was like... wow, this is pretty good, what is it? She replied "cookies and cream"... yeah but what IS it... how did you make it... she said, no... I got that... COOKIES and CREAM!
LOL.. it was pretty awesome.. couldn't eat too much though, it was so damn rich!
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I'm casting my lot with the one handed guys. I went to a workshop where the presenter showed two handed coater technique. I nearly snorted.
I know I have pretty "good hands", but even people who have average (or even less) hand skills can learn the one handed technique, but it just will take a little practice. And it should take about half the time as a two hander. (edit: half the time to coat a batch of screens, that is. It is just faster.)
I use one hand on the top of the frame, resting it on a folding multipurpose table like you might see at a church fellowship....just at a slight tilt away from the scoop coater. I move quickly, somewhat faster than Pierre's 3 seconds, 2+2 in opposite directions, finishing on the squeegee side. I get along better with the Sharp Edge, but I'd probably recommend using the round edge from what I know about EOM.
I'll echo those voices shouting "practice" out there in the wildeness. You oughta see my wife crochet or knit! It is a thing of beauty to watch practiced hands. You can get this. Do some without emulsion for practice.
And like Frog said, if I understood him correctly, you don't necessarily need to force the flats of the end caps completely into the mesh even though that seems to be a design feature. I get along better if I don't.
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THAT"S what he meant by flat spot "almost touching"... I didn't get that at all. I was like "how is he coating if his coater isn't really touching... clearly he has something odd going on"... Like I said... I was missing the whole point of the design of the scoop coater!
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I'm trying to wrap my head around why 1 handed would be better? Has anyone ever done testing as far as eom is concerned? Or is that not the argument between 1 and 2 handed.
And Gilligan I love watching those cooking shows from down south when they throw 2 whole sticks of butter in a recipe! Man now I'm hungry lol.
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That's the wife... often I'll say "man this is GOOD... what's in it?" and she will simply say "Butter".
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My wife and I took a customer to tepanyaki for lunch when they cook the fried rice they add at least a whole stick, it was so delicious! The chef said it was lowfat butter from skinny cow!
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Those Habaci guys can be pretty comical... some can just be terrible though.
Almost always tastes great though!
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I'm a one hander as well. To be honest, I am pretty sure I did it that way because I didn't know any better at the time. I have tried two handed, but it feels really akward.
What is the biggest screen ya'll have coated with one hand? I am thinking that I might have to move to two hands now that I am going to a 36"x43" frame. Maybe I could lean the screen against my waist and pull towards me with both hands? Best of both worlds?.
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Tada!!!!!
a guy goes into a hardware store to buy a saw to cut trees down...salsman says this little baby is the newest thing on the market it will cut 100 trees a day without a doubt, guaranteed.
The guy buys the saw, comes back 3 days later looking like crap and complaining the best he could do was 3 trees a day no matter how he tried. The salesman says gee i don't understand why, the salesman takes the saw to the floor pulls the chord and the saw fires up with a roar. Customer says WHATS THAT NOISE.........Tada!!!!!
glad the vid helped
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for what it is worth have a look
mooseman
coating screens #2 DSCF0803.AVI ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4jDunOBEvQ#[/url])
Sheesh Moose!
I missed your page 1 video post completely!! My first read through was on my smartphone and the vid didn't show up on the browser I chose. (I'm a NoMoPhob. No Mobile Phone Phobic. Ie, it's always right there as my encyclopedia, ready to check texts, emails, and of course "Hook Echos" on the radar. If you live in tornado alley you probably know what a hook echo is.)
I'm completely impressed with your contribution.
This skill is basic to printing success. Like how to hold your violin, or suture, or your Weatherby 308--no matter. It's a skill and benefits from practice, like playing music or eating with chop stix. If I had someone in my shop that could coat emulsion I'd give them a raise, but alas....It's only me that can do it.
Having said that, my technique is just SO totally different than yours. I'm a sharp edged guy, only because I get along better with it. Most Americans use the rounded edge, I read, and most Europeans and Asians use the sharp edge. Dunno.....
I coat at 90 degrees to your technique. in the same direction as the squeegee travel. One coat on shirt side, then I turn the the screen end for end and apply another coat in the opposite direction. Then I rotate the screen to the squeegee side and repeat the process, one coat up, then flip the frame end for end and coat upwards for the final pass. So all 4 passes are in opposite directions. 2 on the shirt side, 2 on the squeegee side. AND FAAAAAST .... compared to your stroke.
My travel speed must be around a second, or at most 1 1/2 seconds per stroke. Watching you was extremely instructive. THANK YOU! I'll bet your EOM is higher than mine. I went all whackadoodle one day and ordered a dry film micron meter from Bill Hood for testing EOM. I rarely get it out. I guess I just do what works, and what I do WORKS... for me anyhow. Zero pinholes (well...nearly zero) and my plates develop just fine with ~1000 psi, wand held 18 - 24 inches from the mesh, moving constantly. But honestly, I wouldn't know a 2% dot if it jumped up and clamped onto me arse. That is another topic for a thread sometime. (LPI? Check. Screen Angle? Check. Dot percent? Not so much...)
Mulling over what I've seen over the years, most recently what you've so graciously offered, I'm left with the conclusion that there is more than one way to skin a rat. If you get an employee on board that can learn to make perfect stencils, treat them REAL nice.
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I never could get the hang of one handed coating but I didnt try to many times. I was trained to do it two handed and im used to it now. I also got away from using the sharp edge, I pretty much coat everything 2/2 now.
Funny, I learned one handed, then picked up a coating stand at an auction, really liked it, but now, on the odd occasion where I'm pressed into service in the screen room, I prefer one handed, coater in the right hand and holding the screen in the left hand.
Steve
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For those who require higher tolerance and consistency with the two handed method consider this: Picture an artists easel with aluminium construction. The top is wall mounted with a piece of aluminium angle iron that grips the top of the screen. The bottom has the same piece to catch the bottom of the screen. Attached to this piece is a hydraulic shock from an auto supply store. This holds the screen firmly in place and accommodates different frame sizes. Downward motion applied to the screen releases it. A quick flip and you now coat the other side.
These have been made. Some even have a swivel so you don't even have to release the screen to coat the other side.
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I never could get the hang of one handed coating but I didnt try to many times. I was trained to do it two handed and im used to it now. I also got away from using the sharp edge, I pretty much coat everything 2/2 now.
Funny, I learned one handed, then picked up a coating stand at an auction, really liked it, but now, on the odd occasion where I'm pressed into service in the screen room, I prefer one handed, coater in the right hand and holding the screen in the left hand.
Steve
But what if you're left handed? :D
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For those who require higher tolerance and consistency with the two handed method consider this: Picture an artists easel with aluminium construction. The top is wall mounted with a piece of aluminium angle iron that grips the top of the screen. The bottom has the same piece to catch the bottom of the screen. Attached to this piece is a hydraulic shock from an auto supply store. This holds the screen firmly in place and accommodates different frame sizes. Downward motion applied to the screen releases it. A quick flip and you now coat the other side.
These have been made. Some even have a swivel so you don't even have to release the screen to coat the other side.
I have seen that and if I had the space I would get one. Load the frame , coat, spin, coat, looks like fun lol.
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It is and its fast and accurate
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It is and its fast and accurate
I cant find that thing, I have looked at it many times online. Who sells them?
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The company who built them for me is no longer around. A metal fabricator could build you one if you found a picture
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Why not go the whole nine yards and get an automatic coater?
http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=0§ionID=109&subSectionID=42&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=42&catTab=sub_section&productID=514 (http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=0§ionID=109&subSectionID=42&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=42&catTab=sub_section&productID=514)
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Because it says "request price"... that's never good.
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Why not go the whole nine yards and get an automatic coater?
[url]http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=0§ionID=109&subSectionID=42&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=42&catTab=sub_section&productID=514[/url] ([url]http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=0§ionID=109&subSectionID=42&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=42&catTab=sub_section&productID=514[/url])
Maybe the cost difference between $500 and 10K? that might do it lol.
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They talk about people when you give them an inch they want a mile... when Gerry wants to spend an "inch", Frog wants him to spend a "mile"!
FYI, I'm on lunch break... just got all my screens burned (9 of them)... I'm fast huh?! ;)
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I remember seeing the rack that Tony is talking about. It seems like it was a Sefar piece. I can't find it though. I did see Grunig (with two dots over the "u") has a semi automatic machine for doing one at a time. I haven't seen them in person, just saw it on their site. I know I'm spoiled by having an automatic coater, but I can't imagine going back to hand coating.
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What is an entry level coater run nowadays? I know the longer I wait the better.
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What is an entry level coater run nowadays? I know the longer I wait the better.
I figure about $8/hr should do it.
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What is an entry level coater run nowadays? I know the longer I wait the better.
I figure about $8/hr should do it.
LOL I shoulda seen that coming.
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One of those clampy jobbers is in this handy dandy chromaline video, http://youtu.be/SRVASoNCOcQ (http://youtu.be/SRVASoNCOcQ) The first time I saw it, it didn't have terrible music over the top of what he was saying.
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That is similar but the one I saw actually had a swivel on it which was pretty cool.
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Here it is! Took me about an hour though.
http://www.lawsonsp.com/lawson-equipment/pre-press/roto-coat-holder (http://www.lawsonsp.com/lawson-equipment/pre-press/roto-coat-holder)
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Well, I like 1 handed coating, but if I had a mind to use 2 hands, that looks like an easy DIY project.
Just sayin'
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Well, I like 1 handed coating, but if I had a mind to use 2 hands, that looks like an easy DIY project.
Just sayin'
Absoluetly, I am just try this one.
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What is an entry level coater run nowadays? I know the longer I wait the better.
I figure about $8/hr should do it.
:D
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Here it is! Took me about an hour though.
[url [url]http://www.lawsonsp.com/lawson-equipment/pre-press/roto-coat-holder[/url] ([url]http://www.lawsonsp.com/lawson-equipment/pre-press/roto-coat-holder[/url])]http://www.lawsonsp.com/lawson-equipment/pre-press/roto-coat-holder[/url]
You can also find it here http://acescreensupply.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=16&products_id=284 (http://acescreensupply.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=16&products_id=284)
It's called the EZ Coater 360.
I guess some T-Slot extrusions for non welders will make it much more affordable tool for the shop.. Grainger for the gas shocks if you decide you prefer the one in the chromaline vid.
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Cool thanks
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FYI, I'm still amazingly bad at coating screens.
It's MUCH better as far as not having drips where the emulsion was oozing out of the edges because I was a dumbass and didn't know how to "work" a scoop coater. ;)
Still uneven and other oddities.
I'm having an issue where it will be really thick along the edge of the coater (3" from each side)... do I need to push hard to make the screen stretch out or am I pressing too hard and causing a "valley" in my screen as it coats?
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Its so hard to describe pressure but yes I would say quite a bit of pressure. You may even hear the popping of the mesh, at least on the edges of static frames.
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Little more pressure Gilly and that should help even things out. As you get better at it you will be able to reduce the pressure a tad but not much. I've taught a few people how to coat recently and they have to use more pressure than I do but they usually start getting decent screens after doing 25-40 screens. If you've coated a lot more than that and you're still bad, we might have a problem somewhere that we need to fix.
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for what it is worth have a look
mooseman
coating screens #2 DSCF0803.AVI ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4jDunOBEvQ#[/url])
Mooseman, I just read this for the firs time and love your vid. Well spoken and clear to understand. This is what makes this place so great and you're a great contributor. Thanks!!!
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No Alan... I've only coated a few screens and these 9 were the first ones I've done "the right way" so I guess I still have a few more to go through before I can start to panic. ;)
Still don't know if I should try two hands or if I need a contraption like Gerry was looking for.
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Two handed here Kev, just make a jig that will hold the screen and put it against the wall. I just have not practiced enough one handed to give any sort of advice on that technique.
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hey Thanks Dan it was very kind of you to offer that........it is very nice to feel like you can sometimes help the folks you look up to.
mooseman happy :)
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Still getting UBER thick deposits along the sides where the end clamps are.
I'm able to make it work but yuck... I got drips and all sorts of nasty stuff going on.
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Are you scared of putting pressure on the mesh? The couple people I have shown are always scared they are going to break something and I just keep telling them they have to push harder. Another thing, what size frames? And what size scoop coater are you using? If your scoop is to wide that may cause a problem.
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I pushed pretty damn hard this last time because everyone said to push till it almost broke the mesh.
I could definitely see the end caps making a profile on the backside of the mesh.
My coater is a fair amount smaller. Too larger for long ways but kind of short for coating side to side. I end up with almost 2" of uncoated mesh on each side.
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Something ain't right Kevin. If you put an extreme amount of pressure and you still get that uneven emulsion deposit on the outside versus the inside then there has to be something strange going on. My new screen tech was getting results like you are describing and we increased her pressure and sped up her speed slightly and now the stencil is even across the mesh. One of the embroidery ops has been helping us out the last few weeks and I taught him how to coat and he was having a much heavier deposit on the outer edges and more pressure fixed his issue as well. You should shoot a vid of ou coating so we can see what's going on.
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Gilligan,
I didn't read every post but it sounds like you need to use less emulsion in your coater and make sure your keeping the coater flat against the screen. Are you laying the coater down so the metal blade edge and the sides of the coater is down against the screen. I use about a half to 3/4th full coater. The emulsion is refrigerator temp to make it thicker. This helps with controlling the emulsion when coating and also makes it easier to get a thicker stencil. (another reason to keep it in the refrigerator is that in my shop in the summer it gets way too hot for the emulsion)
In this video Steve (great guy) shows how he does it. (I didn't have time to make a video)
Emulsions and Screen Coating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI4Zm5B48a0#ws)
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Maybe too much.
I just watched that vid and Mooseman's vid again.... I am pretty sure I'm using more pressure than they were. Maybe I'm just a pussy... very possible, I am a liberal. ;)
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take an uncoated screen and an empty coater. put the lip on there, turn the coater until the top sides ("guides" really) are touching the mesh. now hang out there for awhile and feel what's going on. do some dry pulls and focus on your form. you want those guides on the coater in parallel with the screen. now, feel that drag on the dry screen and dry coater? you should be feeling some of that during actual coating. our screens whistle a little bit while being coated just like when printing. play with the pressure and watch how the mesh moves with the coater edge. it's not just pressure, you want that perfect shear, again, just like when printing in many ways.
now get an old bucket or a sample quart you don't want and get in there and coat until you get it right. it's frustrating but it's controllable. once angle, pressure, amount in the coater and environmental variables are in control it's just a matter of moving evenly and consistently up each screen.
...and I almost forgot, coat with safe back lighting. You'll be able to see what is going on and how your adjustments are effecting the coating.
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i bet it's that liberal-lip-wristed coating style. ;D
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You mean LIMP smartass. :p
Zoo,
I do plan on getting some cheap emulsion to play with EOM, burn times, washout procedure and all those other little things that won't DIRECTLY translate to the emulsion I really use (burn times for example) but will let me get a feel for when we are doing it right once we are doing it with the "real" stuff.
Anyone got suggestions for CHEAP emulsion... if it's decent at the same time then that's just a bonus because maybe I'll find a use for it. :)
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dang you lazy fingers!!! press the keys hard enough next time!!!!
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dang you lazy fingers!!! press the keys hard enough next time!!!!
Hmm, maybe you got a little LIMP wrist in you too. ;)
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hehe.
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Simple solution. We coat about 100-150 a day too.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/garu45/bc76dc44.jpg)
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Interesting... could you explain the process a little more... I just don't want to be missing something obvious via ASSumption.
Ask Mooseman... I am pretty good at that! ;)
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You know..
this is a really hard technique to teach, even more difficult when trying to type it out.
I've been at this for a mere twelve years now, and I've had to 'instruct' five new kids in that time.
I suck at teaching, this is no secret.
One thing I've found though, out of those five, only two ever got it right.
Hell, they coated better than I do.
Why?
Because they wanted to.
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I have always coated with one hand, the screen held by my other hand. With a little practice anyone can do it that way. No matter how it is done always be consistent. After two and a half decades I think I finally got the hang of it.
Coating a 48"x52" Frame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scyTMWEKNr0#ws)
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That's awesome!
I can do OK these days... I've tuned it and got it down... but I have to move fast (I think that is because of the "flaws" of my scoop coater.
My printer is finally getting some screens coated (I'm very glad not to have to do them all now). He's having to go two handed.. he just couldn't put enough pressure behind it one handed. Guess those young kids just can't keep up with this old man. ;)
I just have to help him understand he can't just take a break while coating. After wiping off a coater because we had to stop for a second he then just walked off because he was tired of hearing the microwave beep in the other room. So we had to wipe off the edge again, because the beeping "got annoying". *sigh*
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Gilligan, I've had pretty good luck "fixing" nicks with a sheet of double strength plate glass covered with fine sandpaper. (But a wide coater like that wouldn't work.) Actually, they come out like new on the business edge, as long as you can remove the end caps. Just work it so that the sanding strokes go the long way. I think any flat surface like a surface plate would work. Make the ham-fisted employee who knicked that sucker fix it and he'll be more careful next time. ;)
This is good video. It is exactly what I do, except I flip the screens end for end so that I travel in opposite directions with the coater from the screens perspective. Someone suggested that would help with pinholes--better "bridging". But I alwasys coat 2 over 2 and about your speed, finishing on the squeegee side, except I dislike using the rounded edge. I've never run one quite that wide though!
Thanks for posting!
Stan
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Oh, no he didn't nick it. He just let the emulsion sit too long so the thin layer on the edge started to dry up... needing to be wiped before going back to screen.
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Ahhh..... Yeah, you said that but I just missed it. I sometimes scratch off dried on emulsion with a Scotch Brite pad if it gets bad enough over time.
(Hey Gilligan, ping me offline about your server deal. I am still struggling with this setup. I might call you if I can't figure it out. Just put in an email addy and/or phone number, and I'll send you my cell #. Windoze Sheesh.....)
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This mammoth screen is a 225 S thread that we will use for an all over print. I do coat 110x or lower mesh counts flipping the screens end to end. I also use the sharp edge. The speed of my coating stroke is a little fast which in turn introduces tiny air bubbles into the emulsion in the trough. On a lower mesh those tiny bubbles show up as "starlight pinholes", which requires you to add an additional two strokes on the print side after they are dried, to fill in the valleys of the mesh. An additional step, yes, but well worth the extra stencil thickness it gives you.
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If that is fast then I'm BLAZING!
BTW, I'm better.. but still terrible. I'm just as good as I was when I first started. LOL I had someone how gotten MUCH worse as time went on. now I'm back at square one.
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I have always coated with one hand, the screen held by my other hand. With a little practice anyone can do it that way. No matter how it is done always be consistent. After two and a half decades I think I finally got the hang of it.
That's how I was taught, really fast and clean on 23x31's, BUT, that's a big a z z z z scoop coater on those mamuth screens there though, wow!!! Nicely done!!
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I am sure that many have mastered the one arm method but I just don't believe that evenness and consistency can compare with two. This what I have. The lower arm is supported hydraulically and can fit a large variety of frame sizes without adjustment.
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I am sure that many have mastered the one arm method but I just don't believe that evenness and consistency can compare with two. This what I have. The lower arm is supported hydraulically and can fit a large variety of frame sizes without adjustment.
wholeheartedly agree.
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A correction to my earlier post, it is "starry night pinholes" not "starlight"
Just because you can't coat one handed is no reason to say your two handed method is better. :P ;D
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A correction to my earlier post, it is "starry night pinholes" not "starlight"
Just because you can't coat one handed is no reason to say your two handed method is better. :P ;D
Haha! Yes, there is no way in hell I could do what you did in the video and have a good screen....but I bet my two hander would be a little better and no starry night pinholes. Not thumping my chest b/c I think the two hand method is wildly superior or anything like that....but one big advantage is control of speed when using wider coaters. I coat slow, far slower than in that video and I would coat that identical mesh 2/1 thin edge so it may be putting more emulsion down.
We get those pinnners when there's some backspray issue or the water has some impurities but that's about it. It's not typically related to coating speed if you slow down.
I thought about re-learning that way but I would have to train myself and my printer. It's 6 of one, half doz the other to me really, just so long as everyone in the shop is doing it the exact same way.
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I know I've mentioned this before, but I learned to coat with the two handed method and then switched to the one handed because I feel the opposite of Tony but I can see the reasoning behind it. I can coat a better screen with the one hand, and my speed is much more consistent because I'm using the bending over and up to control the speed instead of moving my arms. I just feel that you can more consistently control your speed by using the larger muscles rather than the smaller ones. I think either method will give you great screens but the person doing the coating will dictate which method will work best.
Tony, I like that coating easel or whatever you want to call it. If I ever get someone in here that can't do the one handed method or if I realize two hands will absolutely give us a better stencil then I'm going to build something like you've got.
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Alan FYI the hydraulic shock can be purchased at any auto supply shop. The rest is just some welding. It's best to mount it to the wall.
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I am looking in to trying a different water resistant diazo emulsion, so I am on the manufacturers website checking the specs. When I get to the instructions section... low and behold, an illustration of someone coating a screen using one hand. Just saying. ;)
...the more you guys get to know me the more you will find i love to joke around, laughter keeps me young on the inside.
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Ok, tried the two hand method again today, now I know why I stayed with the way I was taught. Strength may play a factor in the 1 hander, but man did I make a mess going two hand technique lol >:(. I went to harbor freight a few years back and bought a saw horse. The top of it has two, actual 4, I only use the two, plastic holders that you would clamp something in. I butt the frame against them to keep it square and in place, and swipe, swipe, flip and swipe, clean and even all the time. I'm sure I could get the two hander down pact, but if it ain't broke, why fix it right! Excited to have my Richmond Screen Maker back up and running, never a pinhole with that bad boy. Went with the 7k bulb this time instead of the 10k. Honestly, there is no time difference in exposing. I went with the 7k since it's an older machine and the extra draw of the larger bulb on it was giving an issue, All good now thought. Those units Rok!!!! I use Chroma blue for plastisol and Ulano 925 wr for discharge, love the combo!!
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Alan FYI the hydraulic shock can be purchased at any auto supply shop. The rest is just some welding. It's best to mount it to the wall.
I was looking at your contraption there Tony and telling the wife... I really need to learn how to weld... and get a welding machine. ;)
My problem is that I want one with a generator built onto it and I think those are mainly stick welders... I've tried my hand at that when I was a kid. LOL I'm worse at stick welding than coating screens!