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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: mimosatexas on July 27, 2017, 10:07:07 AM
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Going to be running my first job with this stuff today and wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row before it hits the press. I have done a fair amount of foiling in the past, but always with a plastisol glue or tinted clear. Looking for better adhesion and a softer finished product and have seen time and time again this adhesive mentioned as the best.
I read through all the threads I could find on the forum related to foiling, and couldnt really nail down the "best" practices.
Questions:
- Do you need to fully cure the adhesive through the dryer like other waterbased inks (long dwell vs just getting up to temp like with plastisol) before heat pressing?
- Would a 180S p/f/p work or should I use a 135S or even a 110T? Not much detail in the print, but not sure exactly how runny this stuff is (picking it up later today from River City). For typical waterbased inks I rarely print with anything lower than a 180S.
- Any difference once I get to heat pressing vs plastisol glues? Pressure, time, warm vs cold peel?
- I've seen it mentioned a few times that the ink dries on press quickly and needs a retarder. I usually do not use a retarder with other waterbased inks for short run stuff (and this is a short run). Do I likely need it?
One print location also needs black, and my go to waterbased black in Matsui Spot Black. I dont remember having issues with waterbased inks sticking, but does anyone know if this specific ink will pickup any of the foil?
Thanks!
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Do you need to fully cure the adhesive through the dryer like other waterbased inks (long dwell vs just getting up to temp like with plastisol) before heat pressing?
yep
Would a 180S p/f/p work or should I use a 135S or even a 110T? Not much detail in the print, but not sure exactly how runny this stuff is (picking it up later today from River City). For typical waterbased inks I rarely print with anything lower than a 180S.
Recommend 135 for this product.
Any difference once I get to heat pressing vs plastisol glues? Pressure, time, warm vs cold peel?
bout the same
I've seen it mentioned a few times that the ink dries on press quickly and needs a retarder. I usually do not use a retarder with other waterbased inks for short run stuff (and this is a short run). Do I likely need it?
We run the retarder. Our dryer can handle it and this is basically HSA glue. You cannot risk having any voids whatsoever in the printed adhesive film so it's cheap insurance to help there.
I have seen our WB black (CCI Spot Black typically) stick a little but not excessively.
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Great info! Thanks!
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anytime. Also see the white paper from Amagic on this product.
A core truth I've found is that you don't really need a lot of heat/pressure to adhere the foil, that stuff will adhere perfectly to a piece of packing tape. It's all about that smooth surface to drop the foil onto. Heat and pressure are band aids to fix that initial issue in this case.
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The best foil adhesive for sure.
We use it on press with a hot head, and it is magic.
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Tested yesterday and this stuff is the real deal. Zero pitting, 100% clean release, super sharp edge definition, prints easy. The Matsui Spot black gave me no issues either.
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Quick update after actually doing the print run with this stuff instead of just the testing. First, should have definitely run a retarder. The stuff was drying in like crazy after about 15-20 minutes. Had a few small details drop out completely mid-run and will be reprinting unfortunately (about 18 shirts). The dry-in was really, really bad. Worse than any other waterbased ink I've printed for sure. The areas that didnt drop out though are beautiful. 100% release still and super smooth. Very easy to work with an great results on the finishing end of things, but have to troubleshoot the printing for sure.
edit: Does anyone know if the matsui retarder can be used in place of the virus retarder?
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I realize there are all these apparent cutting edge products out there but we run a lot of foil. we run the rutland glue. 110 flash 110 flash then the roller. heat press at 350 for 15 seconds pull cold . great results every time. no drying in.The customer doesn't know or give a hoot what your doing. all they want is a great end result. just sayin man.. why struggle?
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I've run two different plastisol glues before (I believe neither was the rutland), and neither released as cleanly as the virus. More than anything I just wanted to see what all the hype was about.
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What mesh print order did ya use?
We use the virus retarder at max here.
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Used 135S hard flood, print>clearing stroke>flash>print
Results were excellent, minus the drying in on smaller details. No pitting issues anywhere on the larger areas. I think the retarder is just a must for this stuff.
Anyone know about the matsui retarder vs virus retarder?