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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ericheartsu on July 26, 2017, 10:22:25 AM
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I tried looking for that original post, but I couldn't find it. So apologies for the double post.
We are getting ready to move our unit, and replace the heads in about a month's time, but in the mean time, is there anything i can do to clear up my heads? They've gotten pretty rough over the past month, and i'd like to try and fix them, so we can get some finer detail that we seem to be losing.
so any tips for a quick fix, with switching out the heads being the ultimate goal?
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Did you keep up on the maintenance? Filters are important. You can also clean around the head by moving the head to the left towards the maintenance hatch. It's kind of difficult to point you in a direction with out seeing the issue
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I tried looking for that original post, but I couldn't find it. So apologies for the double post.
We are getting ready to move our unit, and replace the heads in about a month's time, but in the mean time, is there anything i can do to clear up my heads? They've gotten pretty rough over the past month, and i'd like to try and fix them, so we can get some finer detail that we seem to be losing.
so any tips for a quick fix, with switching out the heads being the ultimate goal?
I suggest you call our digital service department and see what they suggest.
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I tried looking for that original post, but I couldn't find it. So apologies for the double post.
We are getting ready to move our unit, and replace the heads in about a month's time, but in the mean time, is there anything i can do to clear up my heads? They've gotten pretty rough over the past month, and i'd like to try and fix them, so we can get some finer detail that we seem to be losing.
so any tips for a quick fix, with switching out the heads being the ultimate goal?
I suggest you call our digital service department and see what they suggest.
we've tried, they weren't really any help in this particular instance. going to try our local tech in a sec.
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I tried looking for that original post, but I couldn't find it. So apologies for the double post.
We are getting ready to move our unit, and replace the heads in about a month's time, but in the mean time, is there anything i can do to clear up my heads? They've gotten pretty rough over the past month, and i'd like to try and fix them, so we can get some finer detail that we seem to be losing.
so any tips for a quick fix, with switching out the heads being the ultimate goal?
I suggest you call our digital service department and see what they suggest.
we've tried, they weren't really any help in this particular instance. going to try our local tech in a sec.
Get in touch with service of course, ask for a syringe kit. They can walk you through how to shut off the upper ink tank above the heads and connect the syringe. You can fill the syringe with either the cleaning solution, alcohol or distilled water, and gently push through the heads several syringe fulls. Finish with a couple 100% distilled water. If the heads aren't totally shot, that should clear them out. We started "wet" capping our head at the end of the day. they can walk you through how to do that properly too. It made all the difference in the world for our environment. If you had headstrikes on tape, gunk ect. and you can't clear them out using the syringe, you may need to replace, but honestly, I'd give this a try first, but like I said, make sure and have a tech walk you through the steps.
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I tried looking for that original post, but I couldn't find it. So apologies for the double post.
We are getting ready to move our unit, and replace the heads in about a month's time, but in the mean time, is there anything i can do to clear up my heads? They've gotten pretty rough over the past month, and i'd like to try and fix them, so we can get some finer detail that we seem to be losing.
so any tips for a quick fix, with switching out the heads being the ultimate goal?
There is a reason you don't see much if any "tech answers" on the internet about these machines. The best TIP I can give, is to always follow the maintenance schedule to the letter faithfully. Do that and you will not have an issue with clogged heads or heads "going" bad.
After reading that you might bring in an outside Tech, I need to mention that you will want to use an M&R Tech. I don't know of any other people (and can't imagine anyone else yet), who have the training needed to work on these when there are issues.
The reason being, These things don't operate the same as any other DTS. Software is different, Parts are different, and printing characteristics are different therefore, Issues are handled differently than other DTS or digital printing machines. One might think that any good Digital Tech from anyplace that has had experience working on random DTS printers can "figure this out" after a little digging. I can tell you that would be a mistake. It may end up costing you a lot more than just biting the bullet and calling in an M&R tech. Trust me, this is one of those rare times where I know, I would be able to come back and say. "I told you so", but I'd never really do that. Everyone wants to save a little $, so I don't blame you. This is not one of those areas. Someone could and more than likely will FUBAR that easily.
On a lighter side, You may not have it as bad as you may think.
I've brought heads back from the brink of death with some love and care. An M&R Tech probably will just make the "due diligence and if they can't get it done fast enough, just replace the heads. Not for the money, but for just getting the deed done so you are up and running again for sure. The goal is a short time span on recovery.
Let me say (now that I'm an outsider). M&R is NOT going to be trying to make money on this. If anything, they try to break even and more often then not, you come out ahead. It's not a profit center. They make $ on selling you a good reliable product and that machine IS.
There are methods to get heads back up and running. A syringe kit is just one of the methods but be warned, That can be messed up and costly as well. It's possible with too much pressure, to blow a gasket, literally. It's possible that you may not really need heads for a few more years. More importantly, you need a refresher on maintenance. An M&R tech can walk you thru everything on the phone. It will be a more difficult and very tedious process to do it over the phone, (taking more than several hours) but it can be done. With a Tech on site, nobody has to go thru the tedious part, you go about your business and within 1-4 hrs, it's back up and running like new without buying new heads. At the most, new heads can be installed at that time without chance of your employee or an outside tech messing up the process on their own (in that case, you more than likely would then have to pay for new heads again.
Lastly, I do not have insurance to do repair. I only consult/train, so go with M&R on this.
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Thanks for the info Dan!
There is actually an M&R tech in Houston now, specifically for I-Images!
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Really? That's awesome. New Orleans is not that far away so sooner or later will have to get the tech over. Sweet. Cheap flight too
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Went through all this with Dan in person the other day. Learned a lot!
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Watch out. Our heads literally died within a week time frame.
5k later we learned something
M&R Switched inks, from D ink to D2 ink to D2A ink. Each ink supposedly needs a different head temperature, and negative pressure. We were never told this... could this lead to premature head failure....they didn't directly answer. Now you know. Call in and make sure your settings are correct.
Pink stuff. Put this in your capping station over the weekend. I would do it every night, but I don't have the time or memory to make sure our screen guy does it.
If you see your lines getting air in them, even though it prints fine. Get the air out. Causes issues.
Our tech had just installed our new heads, a week later the damn thing had air in the lines one morning. We literally had changed nothing since he left. Nozzle check was still perfect and was printing perfect.
Make sure your nozzle checks are perfect everyday. Any head that starts to show missing spend some extra time to clean it up, make sure everything is good to go. Usually indicates an issue.
We had 1 head that had just a little weak area, next thing we know all heads went to crap. 1 year and 10 months from install, on a well maintained machine. Used for 4-5 hours a day 4 days of the week. 200 ish screens a week.
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Watch out. Our heads literally died within a week time frame.
5k later we learned something
M&R Switched inks, from D ink to D2 ink to D2A ink. Each ink supposedly needs a different head temperature, and negative pressure. We were never told this... could this lead to premature head failure....they didn't directly answer. Now you know. Call in and make sure your settings are correct.
Pink stuff. Put this in your capping station over the weekend. I would do it every night, but I don't have the time or memory to make sure our screen guy does it.
If you see your lines getting air in them, even though it prints fine. Get the air out. Causes issues.
Our tech had just installed our new heads, a week later the damn thing had air in the lines one morning. We literally had changed nothing since he left. Nozzle check was still perfect and was printing perfect.
Make sure your nozzle checks are perfect everyday. Any head that starts to show missing spend some extra time to clean it up, make sure everything is good to go. Usually indicates an issue.
We had 1 head that had just a little weak area, next thing we know all heads went to crap. 1 year and 10 months from install, on a well maintained machine. Used for 4-5 hours a day 4 days of the week. 200 ish screens a week.
You had to pay for the heads? I would not have tolerated that if there was mfg change to the masking media that caused it and the heads were installed by their tech. These machines cost far too much to let something like that slide.
We have a different CTS and I can say they all have issues but when an issue like this comes up that is not on our end every penny has been covered by the mfg to repair it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ)
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Pink stuff in the capping station?
I like that idea.
Lucky, have you encountered any issues with that? Just do a clean in the morning and you are off and running?
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we do it daily. just do a clean, and it gets rid of it!
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Awesome :)
TY!
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so valves halfway allow the cleaning fluid to be run through the system? What does that mean "Allows Cleanse" ( In the video)
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Mike that's an excellent vid! Very good info. There is more but this is good for the frequent maintenance.
If I were going to wet cap, I don't know if I would use the pink solution. It's a cleaner. (Degrading agent). It is designed to break down ink and then you wash/flush it away. Any long term contact with soft plastic "rubber" could degrade that area. May wear out the rubber seals on the cap station sooner than is expected. You may not know it for a long time and one day you find out your head plate is not getting cleaned by the rubber blades well, or, your ink starts to puddle and fill cap stations over a long period of time. Like after (1-4 months of using pink in cap station). It's just not designed to sit on soft plastic/rubber. There are other options. Distilled water (cap full) but that evaporates. Maybe try Glycerin gel. Wipes off easily and nothing harmful to rubber.
The D, D2, and D2A, should not be switched around by your own choice. You need someone to do that for you (when you let them know that you want to switch). People switch for different reasons. They keep the original D because some people don't want to change things up and are running fine as is. Thus the need for M&R to keep all. The difference between them is simply the ability to work better in one environment than anither. Believe me, there are extreme differences.
The ink should not be ordered (by mistake) and loaded in on your own. You should not use something that is different than what you are set up for. Yes, they require different settings to be in that "sweet spot".
Can you ruin heads by using the wrong ink? I would imagine yes. Never had it happen to me, but I have come across some shops that were mistaken using I-Screen ink in an I-Image. That's to be a no no also, but I was able to get that to run good again. They didn't even know they were using it. The distributor shipped it to them by mistake. I've seen that several times so always confirm with them what you need and what you actually get.
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so valves halfway allow the cleaning fluid to be run through the system? What does that mean "Allows Cleanse" ( In the video)
The valves at top are three way valves. TOP = CLOSED. MIDDLE (facing out towards you) = opening the pink cleaning solution flow. This does not flow out on it's own. Some people have the idea that it's in there so it must send it through on it's own every so often. To use it, you must go into Printer Control and into the Manual Clean and ....well, it's a process that you don't want to get wrong, so call M&R and have them send you the PDF to do this part.
I myself, suggest you use the pink cleaning solution only to flush the heads once every three months as part of your general maintenance. It's not in the maintenance manual to do so, for good reason? Most people get the process wrong, so M&R wants you to call them when you have a tough block that won't come out with multiple auto cleans. Pink is to do a good flush, or a better job then just flushing black ink out of the lines. Flushing black ink out is good and fast for just kicking air out that has built up over time. The pink, breaks up any collecting aging debri. Once done, you then flush that out with black in..and then keep the blank ink in.
One other thing. Yes, indeed, you will get air in the lines. While it's all closed off and running all of the time, you will still eventually get an air bubble built up no matter who well you do maintenance. You may be printing great today with that air bubble in the line, but that air bubble that you see just above your print head, will eventually work it's way down into your head and cause some empty spots in your print soon. That's (hoping that it actually gets pushed out of the heads). If it just sits in the head in a corner, what does air eventually do with wet ink? It dries..and eventually blocks. So always, always kick out air bubbles. Always do nozzle checks. It's not 100% sealed off all the time. You open the cap, you shake ink around in the container, you push and pull on lines to the receiving tank, etc. So yes, when you see it, you need to purge/flush that out. Call M&R and get the PDF for flushing and purging.
LuckyFlyinROUSH, I did your install and if you remember, I did a 2 part audio and video at your location for your machine. The first on on nozzle checks, the 2nd on purging/flushing. Then gave you a copy to keep. You may still have that around somewhere. I then gave a copy to my boss as a training tool to pass out to other techs to give to customers, but it was suggest that it's not a good idea to pass that around as competitors may find it useful. Rich doesn't like enabling the competition, but like you see above, the customers will eventually come out with their own useful vids/How too's. It's inevitable but I guess M&R didn't want to help the competition along none the less.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ)
I like how you also pull up the pusher frame and clean under the pusher frame. Junk can build up in some areas (more so for shops who change out often for different size frames). Junk gets under there and can raise the pusher frame out of level...causing a heavier halftone in that area cuz it's pushed up closer to the print head by a smidgen. Same thing for presses that have uneven platens.
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Thanks for the props Dan. Tim Foreman was in the shop earlier this week and he asked for a link of the video. This was a first attempt of my DTS guy showing his film making style. A more thorough script is being written. I have asked for it to be in a 50's style documentary and music. This maintenance is so important I want to motivate the team to carry out these tasks.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7EbRvu0WJQ)
I like how you also pull up the pusher frame and clean under the pusher frame. Junk can build up in some areas (more so for shops who change out often for different size frames). Junk gets under there and can raise the pusher frame out of level...causing a heavier halftone in that area cuz it's pushed up closer to the print head by a smidgen. Same thing for presses that have uneven platens.
some good things in that video, thanks for sharing!!!!!!
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You cannot order inks by mistake or mix them up by mistake. M&R Forced you to change from D to D2 to D2A. They did not tell you when they switched you what to change.
They only sell D2A and K ink now.
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I think we are still on K, knock on wood not a single hiccup from our i-image.
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Pink stuff in the capping station?
I like that idea.
Lucky, have you encountered any issues with that? Just do a clean in the morning and you are off and running?
No issues at all. Just run an auto clean or two and the blades wipe any excess off. If you preform your maint and replace the wiper blades and the rubber on the capping station whenever you notice any issues or every six months? Whatever it says in the manual you should be golden. Cheap insurance on 5k worth of heads + headache.
If you feel pink stuff may be too strong mix it 50/50 with distilled water. (Definitely cheaper) I just felt it was safer to go with a product designed for the machine.
One other note, and this has only happened on our machine twice, but it became so damn slow and bogged down we could barely start it. We realized it was creating temp files and filled the entire 500gb hard drive. Mind you...this machine doesn't have any other programs on it other than what came on it, and no files except the machine setup files are stored on this computer. I even deleted the internet, so no employee could be watching their porn during the day.
Watch your drive storage, then go through and delete temp files if you see its full.
- If you ever switch from K to D2A you'll need to call tech support to figure out all the processes needed to get it completely flushed/all new settings etc.
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You cannot order inks by mistake or mix them up by mistake. M&R Forced you to change from D to D2 to D2A. They did not tell you when they switched you what to change.
They only sell D2A and K ink now.
I know you mean no harm in the statement and may believe that 100% but it's not 100% correct in all cases. Mistakes can and have happened in all areas. Customer orders, Distributors, and even from M&R.
Also, M&R can stop selling or making a product like an ink type, but they should have made the needed changes on the settings or walked you thru that before the switch. I do think there is one of the ink types that ran very similar if not identical to the K. They know to do this.
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I think I'm just expressing to everyone to beware that you will have to put 5k into this machine every 2 years when your heads decide to go. Make sure it's well known. I would of much preferred to spend 5k to go to long beach every year instead.
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I think I'm just expressing to everyone to beware that you will have to put 5k into this machine every 2 years when your heads decide to go. Make sure it's well known. I would of much preferred to spend 5k to go to long beach every year instead.
That isn't everyone's experience though.
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I think I'm just expressing to everyone to beware that you will have to put 5k into this machine every 2 years when your heads decide to go. Make sure it's well known. I would of much preferred to spend 5k to go to long beach every year instead.
That isn't everyone's experience though.
Same here, we ran our I Image for 3+ years with zero issues.... As far as I know its still jamming every day with the same heads
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I think I'm just expressing to everyone to beware that you will have to put 5k into this machine every 2 years when your heads decide to go. Make sure it's well known. I would of much preferred to spend 5k to go to long beach every year instead.
No matter the why's., I'm sure it still stings to shell that out. I wouldn't want to.
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I think I'm just expressing to everyone to beware that you will have to put 5k into this machine every 2 years when your heads decide to go. Make sure it's well known. I would of much preferred to spend 5k to go to long beach every year instead.
That isn't everyone's experience though.
Same here, we ran our I Image for 3+ years with zero issues.... As far as I know its still jamming every day with the same heads
About to hit 40,000 prints on mine. Luckily, I've never had a bad nozzle test. I cap the heads religiously though, prior to using an STE I was running and repairing Kornit Avalanche 1000's. I've replaced scores of heads on the Kornit's, and honestly expected issues with the STE. Not the case for me, at least... *knocks on wood*
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread.
-Mike