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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: print3r on November 16, 2017, 08:30:59 PM
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Over the past few months, we've been ordering a mix of S-Mesh and regular screens and over time they have gotten mostly integrated with each other. At first, I was told that S-Mesh screens were marked with the mesh count and diameter (e.g. 158/48), but now we aren't so sure.
On some of the lower meshes, I can see the mesh pattern itself (it seems to me that S-Meshes are in more of a brick pattern than a grid), but the naked eye won't suffice for anything above a 135.
Are there certain mesh counts that are solely used in S-Mesh screens? For example, it seems like all our 156s are standard screens and 158s are S-Mesh. However, I'm a real noob at screenprinting and this is pretty much just guesswork from this one job I've had in this one warehouse. Are there other ways I can tell--perhaps an S-Mesh looks different on a Mesh Determiner than a standard screen?
Maybe it shouldn't even matter? The only reason I'd like to discern them is because S-Meshes seem to hold more emulsion and hold it more stubbornly, so I don't always like printing halftones or thin lines on them.
Thanks for the advice and patience with my noobery. :)
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buy a ptouch label maker and strong adhesive tape to mark your screens. it will last through the reclaim / dip tank.
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buy a ptouch label maker and strong adhesive tape to mark your screens. it will last through the reclaim / dip tank.
I think you misunderstand--I was hoping to know if there's a way to find out if a screen is S-Mesh or not. I've been given some and don't know how to tell. :)
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buy a ptouch label maker and strong adhesive tape to mark your screens. it will last through the reclaim / dip tank.
I think you misunderstand--I was hoping to know if there's a way to find out if a screen is S-Mesh or not. I've been given some and don't know how to tell. :)
I've got a mix of mesh brands including S-mesh. Recognizing this possibility before it happened, I got a label maker and tagged the frames as well created a PC file for inventory identifying what screens had what, including tension and stretch date.
I just looked at some of my raw mesh here and comparing my 180 S-mesh to Sefar and Accumesh, my S-mesh has a darker yellow color, almost a golden yellow. You didn't say what the other mesh brands were in your inventory so that may help.......or may not.
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buy a ptouch label maker and strong adhesive tape to mark your screens. it will last through the reclaim / dip tank.
I think you misunderstand--I was hoping to know if there's a way to find out if a screen is S-Mesh or not. I've been given some and don't know how to tell. :)
i understand your current predicament, and unfortunately prevention is the best medicine to this problem. i'm just trying to help you moving forward.
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buy a ptouch label maker and strong adhesive tape to mark your screens. it will last through the reclaim / dip tank.
I think you misunderstand--I was hoping to know if there's a way to find out if a screen is S-Mesh or not. I've been given some and don't know how to tell. :)
i understand your current predicament, and unfortunately prevention is the best medicine to this problem. i'm just trying to help you moving forward.
Gotcha, I think that's sensible. Unfortunately I didn't have much control over the ordering of the screens and their movement once they got here, but maybe I can parse out the Smeshes over time. Thanks for your time!
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Get you a microscope camera or a 20-60X power magnification device of some sort. I own several different mag devices but this one is my favorite and it has helped me find out mesh counts if my markings have come off or I have mesh that isn't marked for whatever reason.
http://www.vitiny-usa.com/vitiny-vt-101.html (http://www.vitiny-usa.com/vitiny-vt-101.html)
It also has a reticle/ruler feature that you can turn on and you can then count the open areas and threads per line/lines and then compare it to a screen that you know for sure what the count is and then you're good to go.
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One more thing, you really need something that has a reticle with markers, preferably marked in microns. Another benefit of these magnification devices is you'll get to see exactly why some mesh counts should be outlawed for textile printing. When you look at a 156/64 up against a 150/48 it will all become clear as a bell. All those times you struggled to print white ink will flash through your head and then you'll kick yourself for not having figure it all out sooner.
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One more thing, you really need something that has a reticle with markers, preferably marked in microns. Another benefit of these magnification devices is you'll get to see exactly why some mesh counts should be outlawed for textile printing. When you look at a 156/64 up against a 150/48 it will all become clear as a bell. All those times you struggled to print white ink will flash through your head and then you'll kick yourself for not having figure it all out sooner.
(At what time it's preferential to want a more restrictive ink flow when you already have an optimized mesh inventory? ) That's the first production - calibration - situation that needs to be addressed..
Well that is what I interpreted by this statement..
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Hire a new screen person, get them to reclaim all the screens, the ones they bust first were S-mesh. ;D
Seriously though the only other way besides what Alan suggests is to get small squares of mesh of known mesh count and thread thickness and a high powered magnifier and compare both at the same time side by side, and even that is a little subjective. An experienced printer could probably do test prints on the various screens and tell you pretty quickly too.
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Get you a microscope camera or a 20-60X power magnification device of some sort. I own several different mag devices but this one is my favorite and it has helped me find out mesh counts if my markings have come off or I have mesh that isn't marked for whatever reason.
[url]http://www.vitiny-usa.com/vitiny-vt-101.html[/url] ([url]http://www.vitiny-usa.com/vitiny-vt-101.html[/url])
It also has a reticle/ruler feature that you can turn on and you can then count the open areas and threads per line/lines and then compare it to a screen that you know for sure what the count is and then you're good to go.
This is genius, thank you. I am just a worker bee here and couldn't drop $300 on something to help me screenprint, but I can't stop thinking about the uses for a microscope like that....
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For Murakami S Mesh, the S refers to the thread diameter.
SS is the thinnest
S is a thin thread mesh
M - rarely used
T - Standard thread
HD - Heavy duty thread.
http://murakamiscreen.com/smartmesh/mesh-chart-and-tension-guide/ (http://murakamiscreen.com/smartmesh/mesh-chart-and-tension-guide/)
As Alan mentioned, a good scope with a micron scale helps determine the thread diameter and whether it is an S or T mesh. There are some great digital scopes out in the 200 range that have measuring tools for exact micron readings.
The most common Murakami S meshes we offer:
90S - 71 micron diameter thread - 56% open area - Solid art, high density, gels, puffs
110S - 71 micron diameter thread - 48% open area - Solid art, athletic plastisol, discharge, HSA, puffs.
135S - 48 micron diameter thread - 55% open area - Solid art, some coarse <45 line halftone, discharge, waterbase, HSA
150S - 48 micron diameter thread - 51% open area - Solid or halftone art to 50 lpi, detailed discharge, water base, HSA, plastisol base plates
160S - 48 micron diameter thread - 49% open area - Solid or halftone art to 50 lpi, detailed discharge, water base, HSA, plastisol base plates
180S - 48 micron diameter thread - 44% open area - Solid/detailed discharge, solid plastisol overprints, water base, plastisol base plates, halftones to 55 lpi
225S - 40 micron diameter thread - 42% open area - Detailed discharge/waterbase/plastisol, solid plastisol overprints, halftone base plates to 65lpi.
For really high end sim process with stochastic/halftone screens:
350S - 30 micron thread diameter - 37% open area.
More Open area = less squeegee pressure needed to transfer the ink, especially white plastisol base plates.
For sim process, or where the print has hot tack issues, a solid plastisol base plate, I may choose a 300HD over a 300T just to get 30 newton screens and better peel off of halftones on a semi solid baseplate. Peel off is essential in sim process to preserve sharpness in WOW sim process printing, so in some cases a T or HD mesh to high tension can be a better choice when trying to limit ink laydown on overprints.
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Jumping on this one a bit late, but we use zip ties that match our color system to catalog frames. For example, a 160 mesh gets a single blue zip tie put on the corner of it. The ties we found cost a bit more than normal ones, but they are a bit more chemical resistant than the cheap ones. For the S mesh panels, we just toss a second zip tie on the corner of the frame so we can easily tell at a glance if the frame is a thin thread or standard thread. If your shop runs more thin than standard, just reverse that to have a single on the S and a double on the T.
You can download our color chart online and use the colors we do if you want to make it easy.
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I know the poster's original question was how to identify already stretched mesh on screens, but I love your response.
Insanely simple solution! Thanks.
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A great point was just emailed over to me... Make sure when you attach your zip ties that the "pokey" parts aren't exposed (wrap them to the inside of the corner) so it doesn't cut your vacuum table blankets or snag on anything else that is costly to replace!
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I used the zip ties for a bit, and had a color code chart for our counts. The only issue we ran into with that method is that it got annoying to replace them on every retensioning. If we didn't remove the tie during reten, it would through the frame out of flat.
I am back to using solvent resistant labels on top of our mesh protectors, but those also have to be replaced periodically. Maybe I need to go back and look at that system. I suppose if the zip tie was a little loose it could be slipped down to the roller area during reten and it wouldn't be on the corner. But it still needs to be out of the way for the wrench.
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On rollers, we typically use them on the lugs.
(https://nebula.wsimg.com/obj/NTIzNzA1NDAxOEE5RUI0ODU1RTM6ZGFjZmMwYTcwNWIxZTg1YTg3YTQ0N2M4ZmI2YTAyMzM6Ojo6OjA=)
This gives us plenty of room to still get our standard adjustable wrenches on there and keeps us from having to remove them when we need to retension.
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Wrench part on the short sides, both on the same side, doesn't get in the way of the wrenches and doesn't
stop you from keeping a frame flat.
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Oh, and Mcmaster has the best selection in terms of colors. Use highly distinguishable colors
for close mesh counts.
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Thank you for that! Duh, that is obvious. Will probably revert back to this because the labels we use are totally annoying.