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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: dirkdiggler on November 20, 2013, 06:58:57 PM
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Everyone always posts pics straight off press, lets see some with 2 or 3 washes if anyone has some. That's the real test. I know we lose at least 1 to 2 shades after washing, how about the rest of you? This could be interesting to see who really has it dialed in. Educational to say the least.
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AND NOTE WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE DOUBLE OR SINGLE STROKING!!!!! NO CHEATING BY BEING SILENT ON THAT!!! :-)
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yes, and add anything else necessary.
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Not at home or work right now but I will mention this - the average American does not follow instructions for anything let alone washing their clothes. You really think a dude or most women for that matter take a concert shirt and wash it in cold water and hang dry it? Or use low heat on tumble? That black concert shirt after two or three of those incorrect washings isn't the same black it used to be hahaha. But I have discharge shirts from years ago that the print is just as vibrant as what is left of the shirt color itself. Is everyone expecting for the ink itself to hold up to years of washings? The image will be there with color yet not as vibrant. But the no hand is what it is all about in my opinion and most clients as well.
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Brandon, did you speak with that customer I sent your way? She was looking for 16 shirts with a 28" tall simulated discharge process print on both sides of a red 100% polyester sport tek. I told her you were the guy to talk to and you'd be happy to accommodate ;-).
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Brandon, did you speak with that customer I sent your way? She was looking for 16 shirts with a 28" tall simulated discharge process print on both sides of a red 100% polyester sport tek. I told her you were the guy to talk to and you'd be happy to accommodate ;-).
That's funny
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Funny, funny! Haha. So not trying to be "that guy" but I guess I just don't understand what is being looked for. There shouldn't be any massive drop off in vibrancy in the ink after a wash or two. After a year or two it is going to happen with horrible washing techniques. Take two black shirts from a run and wash one with hot water and full blown dryer two or three times and use the other to compare the actual shirt. It will not be as black or all of my washing machines have been cursed
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no doubt customer care plays a major role. I know I personally take discharged shirts home and perform my own wash tests and I am happy with the results, but I always lose at least one shade. I think its the norm, just am curious of anyone elses results.
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In our case the black shirts with white discharge looks great after washing several times but the red shirts "that's a whole different ball game".
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Just as a side note --- understand that the water base will discharge prior to being fully cured - that is evacuating all the water. This evacuation is needed to fully cross link the binders and ensure full wash fastness.
There is a reason that AIR FLOW and TIME is critical to this process. Take a look below -- a while back I Googled the following products to look at recommendations for curing their discharge. They are all pretty consistent. Sorry for the funky formatting!
Temperature Time in minutes
CCI (ideal) 340-350 2-3
CCI 320 1.5
Magna AB-AW Discharge 330 3
Magna ULF Discharge 330-340 3
Rutland WB-99 Discharge 320 1.5
Sericol Texcharge 320-360 2-3
Matsui Discharge 320 1.5
Matsui Discharge 300-320 2.5-3
Wilflex Oasis Discharge 350 2.5
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I've got discharge shirts that still look awesome two years later. Beats the snot out of plastisol
for washability/longevity. I've found that saturation is going to play the largest part in washability.
Think about it, %100 saturation means no shirt color left to show through ever.
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When executed correctly using quality products you should not have washfastness issues. If not printing on fine gauge cotton fibrilation can occur with high mesh sim process DC prints.
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I don't its color loss as much as its fibrillation, we are happy with our results, just not sure about the norm. Thought I would bring up this topic to see what everyone else says. Still no pics...? Thanks for that info Rob, you know I got the equipment and time right, you have watched me do it.
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I will do my best to try and remember to take a pic. Subject shirts are at my house and have been washed weekly for two years.
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I don't its color loss as much as its fibrillation, we are happy with our results, just not sure about the norm. Thought I would bring up this topic to see what everyone else says. Still no pics...? Thanks for that info Rob, you know I got the equipment and time right, you have watched me do it.
Yes sir you betcha! You might be right about the fibrillation. Take a look through a loupe and see if there are fibers showing?
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I've just picked up the CCI PMS kit and this was my first test with it. Used the +5% pigment boost and cut the activator down to 3%. Pretty happy with the results, my previous attempts at colour discharge prints had pretty poor afterwash performance. Ran it through the dryer twice on the slowest speed just to be sure.
Didn't hold back on the wash either, standard laundry run with detergent. 30deg wash, 180deg tumble dry. Shirt on the left is washed, one on the right is an unwashed print for comparison.
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your first post and you were brave enough to silence the crickets! Good job.
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your first post and you were brave enough to silence the crickets! Good job.
Well, why speak 'less you got something to say? ;)
It was reading this forum that made me pick up the starter set though. I was put off colour DC printing for a while due to problems with washing.
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Phil,
When u say you did the +5% pigment boost you mean you just did 15% total?
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he probably means he used the option in the software, to automatically add five percent boost to the recipe.
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he probably means he used the option in the software, to automatically add five percent boost to the recipe.
You are correct sir.
I read a few folks here recommending as high as 20% pigment load but I thought I'd go with the more conservative option for my first test.
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bringing this back up...
we seem to have issues with black staying black, it washes to a faded charcaol-ish color. I have a gallon of sericol black to test out. We do not add any discharge agent to black -tried it once and that was a bad idea.....any blacks better than others or should I just use a plastisol through a high mesh?
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I switched back to black plastisol through high (225-310) S mesh and 65/95/65 duros for similar issues using cci's wb black but tried no others. The feel with those mesh counts is comparable anyway without some of the dc headaches. Constant issue - I'm guessing this is the case for wb black too(?) - is watching out for fibrillation. However just this past week I had great success with black on a light blue running small open area through a 270t mesh and used a 225s mesh for one with large open area. Neither had any meaningful fibrillation after first wash and dry. Having said that, I wish the 225 would've been on the 270 to see if the feel would have been significNtly less, though it was quite good nonetheless - was running it at 23"/second and had 3 roller squeegees running prior to the black to help with fiber matte down (and primarily for lint boogers) so I have no idea how much that helped too (if at all) with matting down the fibers before the print.
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I have had good luck mixing my own black....20percent load CC I. You gotta bury it I the shirt,,,,,lots of pressure. Wash tests 3 times over with detergent......looks great.
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Don't run un activated sericol black. In fact, I don't recommend running any DC ink un activated.
Cci spot black tested out best for us. Pretty much matches or beats plastisol in long haul wash tests. Looking into running some fixers to eliminate even more fibrillation and seeing how hsa black performs. If the hsa is wow friendly that could be a solution.
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