TSB
screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: dirkdiggler on November 29, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
-
Anyone tried the Meteor or the Comet? Video looks promising and the price is right?
-
Used a sample of it at ISS... pretty awesome.
Still waiting on our sample though. :-\
-
Awesome, I was just about to post the same question.
Has anyone been in contact with them in Canada? That`s where they are based. Apparently they are doing as well discharge inks. Ryonet stocks the white plastisol and waterbased inks as far as I have seen.
-
Just got a gallon of it this week. Stirred it up and it feels reallllly low visc and has little to no drag. No time yet to put it on press. We should be doing that next week, both auto and manual.
Looks like it could be awesome on a manual, but I am betting on it not having enough body to print well on the auto. Also, it looks like it may not stack - print/flash/print cleanly - like it may roll the edges and fill in fine detail. But, I could also eat my words next week :)
Any one have hands on experience with it yet?
Oh and Rockers, I was told that it ships in from Italy, not Canada.
-
Just got a gallon of it this week. Stirred it up and it feels reallllly low visc and has little to no drag. No time yet to put it on press. We should be doing that next week, both auto and manual.
Looks like it could be awesome on a manual, but I am betting on it not having enough body to print well on the auto. Also, it looks like it may not stack - print/flash/print cleanly - like it may roll the edges and fill in fine detail. But, I could also eat my words next week :)
Any one have hands on experience with it yet?
Oh and Rockers, I was told that it ships in from Italy, not Canada.
I might be wrong but I took my info from their website.
http://www.greengalaxycompanies.com/story/ (http://www.greengalaxycompanies.com/story/)
Well of course it does not say where it ships from;) As a matter of fact their website does not say much at all about their products, which really is a shame.
-
We have been using their ink for a while, REAL nice stuff. Kinda a different animal than your standard Union or whatever. Nice and creamy.
There was talk of it becoming readily available here in the states this coming year but I'm not 100% sure where that stands currently.
All in all, two thumbs up.
-
I had word from Nick at Ryonet that they have placed a very large order and it will be in their hands shortly, if not already.
I have a few jobs I can try it on next week, I will try and remember to post my results.
-
They have just signed up so expect some info straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
(and yes, the IP is in Canada)
-
http://www.greengalaxycompanies.com/ (http://www.greengalaxycompanies.com/)
-
Hi to all following this discussion. Yes Green Galaxy is a Canadian company! :-) Up until recently most of our inks were manufactured in Canada. We are now making the inks in Italy, so you are both right. :-) Ryonet will be selling our inks in the USA I saw mention of Nick Wood, He is a great guy. We are going to start with White inks and grow the line from there. The goal of our company is to release great products that are user and environmentally friendly, that ultimately make printers more profits. The white inks are 3 roll milled and the small particle size allows you to print through finer mesh and have great coverage. The water base has incredible open time and is supper soft but can be used print flash print then it bonds to itself for some stretch. We will be releasing more products and updating our website throughout the year. Thanks for the interest and I hope you love the products!
-
Hi Green Galaxy.. On your website there's a 2010 write up about your water base inks goal is to overcome a list of short comings inherent in printjng with wb inks. One of them- I think more important, is the the high dwell time to cure.. Now on Ryonet it states that 90 seconds on a higher setting is doable but 120 seconds is preferable..
Could you clarify? And is this based on convection heat or electric? Because you mainly hear the struggle with curing coming from printers with electric ovens.
Posted with Tapatalk
-
Curing water base is a time temperature relationship. 3 min at 300 degrees F or with a higher temp you can reduce the time. You should always test to ensure a proper curing is taking place. We have a catalyst that can be added to the ink to create a plastisol like cure. Forced air dryer is suggested. However you could test to see how it works in your environment with your equipment. Wash testing should be done after 48 hours of print test. This catalyst is one of the upcoming products we will release.
-
Hi to all following this discussion. Yes Green Galaxy is a Canadian company! :-) Up until recently most of our inks were manufactured in Canada. We are now making the inks in Italy, so you are both right. :-) Ryonet will be selling our inks in the USA I saw mention of Nick Wood, He is a great guy. We are going to start with White inks and grow the line from there. The goal of our company is to release great products that are user and environmentally friendly, that ultimately make printers more profits. The white inks are 3 roll milled and the small particle size allows you to print through finer mesh and have great coverage. The water base has incredible open time and is supper soft but can be used print flash print then it bonds to itself for some stretch. We will be releasing more products and updating our website throughout the year. Thanks for the interest and I hope you love the products!
Any relationship to Manoukian?
-
No relationship with them.
-
Curing water base is a time temperature relationship. 3 min at 300 degrees F or with a higher temp you can reduce the time. You should always test to ensure a proper curing is taking place. We have a catalyst that can be added to the ink to create a plastisol like cure. Forced air dryer is suggested. However you could test to see how it works in your environment with your equipment. Wash testing should be done after 48 hours of print test. This catalyst is one of the upcoming products we will release.
In support of what Green Galaxy posted regarding required oven retention time to achieve a full cure on water-based textile screen-printing inks. The attached example assumes the following constant factors: A standard tee-shirt requires a minimum of 20” of linear space, two shirts are loaded across the belt, and the oven chamber length is 12.0’. The only variables are a dwell time of 120 seconds (2 minutes), versus 180 seconds (3 minutes) resulting in a 144 shirts per hour production speed differential.
When it comes to curing water-based inks without addition of a catalyst there are three important factors that need to be covered; (1) Evacuate the moisture from the garment, (2) Evacuate the moisture from the ink, and getting the entire thickness of the ink film to the temperature required to cross link it, to achieve a full cure. What the numbers in the example suggest is that running the dryer at the highest temperature possible without damaging the garment, or adding a catalyst that will promote a chemical cross linking of the ink film to achieve a full “post-cure” are both good strategies for the production orientated print-shop.
-
I'm testing the waterbase comet white right now...... I'll post tomorrow with what I find but so far this is one of the best white inks out of the bucket we have tested. This is not a discharge product so we are printing the same as we would print plastisol..... Right now I'm doing a print flash print with a big white solid image and so far it's pretty very very nice...Flashes in similar time then our plastisol we are using and the coverage is really nice. I'll report back to you guys tomorrow but so far this is a very nice ink.
-
still nothing from anyone on this? I am reading some stuff over at the t-shirt forum, but man I HATE that forum, TONS of bad info.
-
We did use the waterbased Comet White yesterday on 60/40 black polo shirts. Prints real good no drying in the screen and very opaque. No bleeding.
Used as well the Meteor white plastisol yesterday on red sweaters. Prints very nice, looks a bit glossy after the first flash but once it`s fully cured the gloss effect is not too bad. It prints like a dream even through high mesh counts. Sits very thin on top of the sweats we have done. If it wouldn`t be for the 70 gallons of Wilfex Olympia White we still have I would probably switch right away to that white.
-
Rocker, you have the names backwards.
I just got a 5 gallon of meteor (plastisol)... My guy likes it, but we are probably as qualified as that other forum. ;)
-
I am reading some stuff over at the t-shirt forum, but man I HATE that forum, TONS of bad info.
What did they try to put the ink in their DTG printers? :D
I really like the Green Galaxy inks. He has a WB system also that is supposed to be the bees knees, but I have yet to sample it.
-
I am reading some stuff over at the t-shirt forum, but man I HATE that forum, TONS of bad info.
What did they try to put the ink in their DTG printers? :D
I really like the Green Galaxy inks. He has a WB system also that is supposed to be the bees knees, but I have yet to sample it.
Have you ever read some of the questions over there? And the answers people give? Surprised anybody gets anything done if they follow some of the advice I read over there.
-
I picked up a qt of the Meteor white but have yet to try it, did crack it open and that stuff is creamy as heck as far as I can tell, how does it do with fiber matte down? Anyone?
-
Fiber Matte on the gallon I got was lousy. Also, due to the thin/low viscosity it does not hold edge detail as well as we want. The ink was tested at 50-60 degrees....... If it was printed at press running temp of above 70 Degrees it would be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to thin.
We will choose the inconsistent Street Fighter cotton white over the sample of Meteor white. Sorry Nick.
Testing was on a Delta 100% cotton shirt. The after flash tack was also very noticeable..... We also noticed a lot of gloss to the finished print.
-
Fiber Matte on the gallon I got was lousy. Also, due to the thin/low viscosity it does not hold edge detail as well as we want. The ink was tested at 50-60 degrees....... If it was printed at press running temp of above 70 Degrees it would be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to thin.
We will choose the inconsistent Street Fighter cotton white over the sample of Meteor white. Sorry Nick.
Testing was on a Delta 100% cotton shirt. The after flash tack was also very noticeable..... We also noticed a lot of gloss to the finished print.
Well im glad I only got a $10 quart of it! Lol.
-
I am reading some stuff over at the t-shirt forum, but man I HATE that forum, TONS of bad info.
Haha.. I got put in the penalty box a few months ago on that forum because I claimed it's mostly kaka.. But I use to talk kaka too.. If after a year the same people are still espousing the same garrbarrge.. It's time to move on.
Posted with Tapatalk
-
I am reading some stuff over at the t-shirt forum, but man I HATE that forum, TONS of bad info.
Haha.. I got put in the penalty box a few months ago on that forum because I claimed it's mostly kaka.. But I use to talk kaka too.. If after a year the same people are still espousing the same garrbarrge.. It's time to move on.
Posted with Tapatalk
Well, it is what it is. Certainly popular as anything can be, and a gold mine to advertisers (like Ryonet)
We wish Rodney and his bunch well, and expect to see some of those members gravitate to the next level and hopefully find us!
-
Frog I don't mean to sound selfish.. But I hope it's not a thundering herd.
Posted with Tapatalk
-
We wish Rodney and his bunch well, and expect to see some of those members gravitate to the next level and hopefully find us!
Frog if that is the case, you are going to need to buff up the DTG and clothing line sections here! :D:D
-
We wish Rodney and his bunch well, and expect to see some of those members gravitate to the next level and hopefully find us!
Frog if that is the case, you are going to need to buff up the DTG and clothing line sections here! :D:D
And carpentry tips for DIY presses. : ;D
Guys, I was all about the real down and dirty start-ups when I first did the forum thing, and it was very gratifying to see that I could be a help to that niche.
I had actually hoped, when we began this place, (to the chagrin of some members) that we would get more newbie action.
Kinda' nice when the majority of newbie answers are not from peers, with the blind being lead by the cross-eyed.
At any rate, as we told Kwan recently, ask away, and we will all do our best to help.
Come in here with a bit of a foundation, and ask away more speciifically, and we will do even better, and you will get a wealth of information from some seasoned pros.
-
I had actually hoped, when we began this place, (to the chagrin of some members) that we would get more newbie action.
Frog I bet there are way more newbies gaining knowledge than you think. They are just reading up and or lurking. I know I was a lurker for quite some time. Looking in to this forum from the outside it is obvious people know each other or have built up a good relationship, and it can be intimidating to just jump in. It took me a while, but I feel comfortable being a smart ass now and chiming in on things I think I know about 8)
You guys have a good thing going here. I can't tell you how relieving it is to check the boards on my phone when the wife is yaping, sometimes I can block her out completely! :D
-
I know I lurked about a year before I started talking. I do that with other forums I belong to in other interests of mine. I don't say much because I don't know much and have very little to offer. Some things never change.
-
I don't say much because I don't know much and have very little to offer. Some things never change.
You must be off your rocker!!!!! When I think of "who would know this answer"(aside from me of course) you, Alan are in the top 5. You seem to have EVERYTHING mapped down! Something I know I need to do more of! When everyone is posting their gains, all I could say is "we are up". I am not a figures person, seat of my pants is how I have always been. You sir are a numbers, EXACT numbers man! You know plenty.
Now that I have buttered you up, want to go on a dinner date friday? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I definitely give weight to what Alan says, due mostly to the fact that when he does post it is with purpose and he supports his positions with detailed posts, even if you disagree or have had different results trying the same things.
I lurked for a short time before joining. It was just too obvious that I would learn a lot by being an active part of the forum. I know at the moment I still ask a lot more questions than I answer, but I do try to help when I can. I feel a lot more confident moving forward with my business knowing I can ask seasoned printers like y'all questions when I need help, and hopefully I can pass the torch along one of these days.
TSF is full of short worthless threads, but there is some gold on that forum if you know what to look for and how to skip the "herp derp" posts. I'm hoping the new DIY subforum replaces the need to go there to ask for feedback on certain projects, but I see no harm in using every resource available (with caution of course!).
-
The Inks are 3 roll milled to have a small evenly distributed particle size so printing through finer mesh is recommended. The small particles sitting close together help with matting down fibres and creating better coverage. Finer mesh will reduce gloss look on the plastisol and solve other minor print issues. It is because it is designed to print easily through coarse and fine mesh alike that the viscosity is where it is at. However you will notice it holds its viscosity well even through long runs. This ink will feel a little different then you are used to but will perform very well and have a great hand and finnish. Don't judge the ink from the viscosity! :)
-
The print was through a 150 S mesh. Standard mesh for underbasing.
Oh, and I was the Ink Tech/Technical Sales/R&D guy at QCM before Rutland purchased them. I am familiar with 3 roll mills, we had 4 of them.
The ink I sampled was too low in visc/centipoids. It also has a higher after flash tack than is necessary/wanted. It acted like a plasticiser add was made in production that may have changed it's behavior beyond what you have it speced as. Also, the gloss... there are other additives at work on that.
My review is for the individual gallon of plastisol white I was given to sample.
-
Out of curiosity is it the pigments in the ink that are responsible for fiber matte down? Seems to me it
would be more of the plastisizer or other fillers that would take care of that. But then again, I'm no ink chemist.
-
I do appreciate those kind words fellas. I'm flattered Alex, I don't get many dinner dates these days, especially with other dudes :)
The only way I could survive in this industry is with the approach I take. I have not one artistic bone in my body and everything I do has to have a number to it. That's one of the reasons why I liked the RPM so much, it gave me hard numbers for all the major settings and it fits my way of thinking. I need things to be given to me in concrete numbers like a screen at 30 newtons will perform well on an auto with 1/16" off contact or a 123/55 will deposit 15% more ink than a 156/64 with the same duro blades and angles. I never did well with the advice I read that said things like "use light pressure with no angle with very little off contact."
-
I thank you for feedback and will take it into account. I would say there are a combination of factors that affect fibre matt down but having an ink that is really well milled and small particle size in a high concentration will help as the white pigment sits so close together. All shops are different and want different characteristics so if you have any left over try it through a 230 mesh in comparison to the ink you are using. Is it is Rutland?
-
I'm flattered Alex, I don't get many dinner dates these days, especially with other dudes :)
Ohhhhhhhh ya, about that..... I forgot I am not in Texas, maybe some other time? I just didn't want you sitting waiting next to the phone.... ;D
-
I'm flattered Alex, I don't get many dinner dates these days, especially with other dudes :)
Ohhhhhhhh ya, about that..... I forgot I am not in Texas, maybe some other time? I just didn't want you sitting waiting next to the phone.... ;D
Damn, yeah another time will be good. It will give me more time to get down to my fighting weight.
-
Out of curiosity is it the pigments in the ink that are responsible for fiber matte down? Seems to me it
would be more of the plastisizer or other fillers that would take care of that. But then again, I'm no ink chemist.
It is the resin/filler that has the most to do with fiber matte. Then the body of the ink comes into play.... it has to have some physical structure to it. It can has a low viscocity/high shear and still have good body. These inks are typically shorter bodied with varying degrees of squeegee climb.
If the ink has high shear/low viscocity and is on the runny side..... the fiber matter goes down the drain. These inks typically flood easily and will run out the side/pool a little when sitting.
Fiber matte characteristics are most evident on standard 6.1 oz cotton shirts. Ringspun is another - wonderful - story. It is much easier to achieve a smooth print on good fabric.
If I get a sample from another production batch, I am more than happy to give it a shot. We are still looking for a really good - Consistant - cotton white.
-
I will talk to Nick to see if we can get something over to you.
-
It's funny that you mentioned the inconsistency of the SF white Colin. I hadn't run into that issue at
all until we opened the newest five of LB. Ugh.
Out of curiosity again, what is a typical batch size for plastisol? I'm sure it varies between the major players
and the boutique type inks, but what are we talkin here, 100 lbs at a time? 5000?
-
I know at QCM we made 150 gallon batches on average, for whites.
at an average of 12 lbs per gallon that's.... 1800 lbs.
As I understand it, Rutland, International Coatings, etc have production capacity of 1000 to 2000 gallons of plastisol per batch. Not knowing their actual production runs..... that still adds up to a lot of weight ;)
-
Anyone tried the Meteor or the Comet? Video looks promising and the price is right?
Here's a quick review of Meteor...
White ink review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS218heUR_k#)
White ink review part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJkT7F1NH4#)
-
Well obviously Jason Vorhies likes Meteor white.
A little Friday the thirteenth fun while I was away from the shop. ;)
http://instagram.com/p/h4J4hnSp-_/ (http://instagram.com/p/h4J4hnSp-_/)
-
Hi to all following this discussion. Yes Green Galaxy is a Canadian company! :-) Up until recently most of our inks were manufactured in Canada. We are now making the inks in Italy, so you are both right. :-) Ryonet will be selling our inks in the USA I saw mention of Nick Wood, He is a great guy. We are going to start with White inks and grow the line from there. The goal of our company is to release great products that are user and environmentally friendly, that ultimately make printers more profits. The white inks are 3 roll milled and the small particle size allows you to print through finer mesh and have great coverage. The water base has incredible open time and is supper soft but can be used print flash print then it bonds to itself for some stretch. We will be releasing more products and updating our website throughout the year. Thanks for the interest and I hope you love the products!
Is the Meteor a phthalate free product ??
-
Yes Meteor is a phthalate free product. We do not offer any product with phthalates! :-)
-
Yes Meteor is a phthalate free product. We do not offer any product with phthalates! :-)
That's good.... I think this product will be a great seller, especially at your current pricing.
I suspect if I had done my review with a better screen (S mesh at 25n)... it would have been a one hit print.
Best wishes to you, for a successful 2014.
-
Thank you, and I also would like to wish you tremendous success in 2014!
-
Hello Bob.
Can you compare the performance to Quick white that you are using?
Afterflash tack? Not so important on a manual but definitely on an auto.
Coverage through same mesh?
Whiteness?
Gloss or Matte?
Clarity of overprint color?
Weight per gallon?
Also just to be clear, the Quick is an LB product, hence a much higher price. The sister Wilflex Cotton product is Sprint - which is significantly less $/gal than the quick in gallons - albeit certainly not the gallon pricing you see here with this material.
-
Sorry we have not done direct comparisons to the Wilflex products.
It looks like the gallon is not full but it actually is a perfect gallon by weight. The container is larger for mixing and scooping.
- 1 Gallon of Meteor White according to its specific gravity = 5.72 KG
which is what we pour into the containers.
- Meteor White Gallon Containers are approx 1.5" wider than IC Gallon
containers (Approx 22.25" for IC, 23.75" for Meteor)
- Meteor White Gallon Containers are approx 1.5" lower than IC Gallon
containers
-
I've been pretty busy of late, and can't find the time to dig. The Meteor is a plastisol and the Comet is a water base? I can't seem to find enough info on the website... you know, the technical specs. Of course, maybe I'm just missing them? Thanks in advance
Steve
-
I could be wrong but I think the Comet is for 50/50's. I think they have a whole new line of WB that is going to be hitting the market soon. I still have great luck with the Meteor, stuff is smooooooooooth!
-
Alex,
How are you making it work? The sample I have will not matte fibers at all....
We did testing on a standard black 100% cotton 6.1 oz shirt - not ringspun.
-
Alex,
How are you making it work? The sample I have will not matte fibers at all....
We did testing on a standard black 100% cotton 6.1 oz shirt - not ringspun.
We have run it on a 110 and also a 156. Printed on Tri-blend, 6.1oz and hoodies. The hoodies we used a different top white as they were a bit stubborn. But I am replacing the Miami white we used to get with the Meteor. Even up here in MN where the ink gets cold and can be a pain to work with this stuff is still great to work with. Here is a pic on the Tri-Blend. 156 for UB and top coat.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/IMG_20140110_111729_zps6277dd92.jpg)
-
wanted to revise this thread, I am looking for info on the Comet white, Anybody at all used it yet!
-
We actually use the Comet all the time. If we are printing a DC or WB run, that is our go to for a top or hi light white.
It is a WB white but could almost be considered a HSA white.
-
Is green galaxy acrylic or polyurethane water based ink ?
-
Whats the price of white plastisol. Excalibur also canadian. For water based matsui is best.