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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Shanarchy on December 07, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
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I've always used a (Hix) drying cabinet. I was considering picking up another. I was watching Greg Kitson's video of his screen production. Mind's Eye Graphics CTS Screen Exposure & Washout Workflow- May 2013 60 + per hour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZP7kjjTcjU#ws) I see he dries his screens sideways with a box fan blowing down on them. Greg Kitson is a person who I view as really having his stuff together. So, I'm wondering what are the advantages to drying screens Standing vertically (as in this video) as opposed to horizontally (as in my drying cabinet). And what is the better way to dry them for speed and overall results (drying cabinet or box fan).
Main reason I ask this is that I am in the process of moving my shop (same building, just a few doors down). I am setting up the screen room/area now. My gut says if Greg's doing them this way I should set myself up that way too.
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I've always used a (Hix) drying cabinet. I was considering picking up another. I was watching Greg Kitson's video of his screen production. Mind's Eye Graphics CTS Screen Exposure & Washout Workflow- May 2013 60 + per hour ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZP7kjjTcjU#ws[/url]) I see he dries his screens sideways with a box fan blowing down on them. Greg Kitson is a person who I view as really having his stuff together. So, I'm wondering what are the advantages to drying screens Standing vertically (as in this video) as opposed to horizontally (as in my drying cabinet). And what is the better way to dry them for speed and overall results (drying cabinet or box fan).
Main reason I ask this is that I am in the process of moving my shop (same building, just a few doors down). I am setting up the screen room/area now. My gut says if Greg's doing them this way I should set myself up that way too.
I would be interested to measure the thickness, and compare the EOM of his stencils from one end to the other.
I'm a big believer in things like gravity, and its affect on things like liquids.
Oh, and to answer your question, I use a cabinet with a dehumidifier, and dry horizontally , substrate side down.
I can also assure you that my screen throughput is absolutely minuscule compared to Greg's.
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I actually tested the effect of vertical vs horizontal early on, and for something like a 110 mesh with 2/2 it simply doesnt work. The stencil thickness is visibly different from top to bottom. I also tested drying squeegee side up vs. down, and again, huge difference in the actual result on something like a 110 2/2. Squeegee side up creates a sharp edges pocket below the mesh for the ink to fill, making it so you can get great coverage without blurring. It honestly may not make a difference on something like a 280 1/1 due to the mesh holding so much of the emulsion, but I would think it still isn't ideal.
We dry our screens in this: http://imgur.com/a/q2GU2 (http://imgur.com/a/q2GU2) It can dry 27 23x31 screens, regardless of coating style and outside temp/humidity in an hour or less. Occasionally if I need a weird mesh or coating style, I can throw a single screen in and it is dry within 20 minutes. I've been told adding a little desk heater would speed everything up as well. Having it against a wall creates a semi closed loop of air, with the dehumidifier exausting dry air into the wall and the fans sucking some of that up and back into the unit. I did some test prior to the final build with just a box and the fans and dehumidifier sucking or blowing air in different configurations with and without a closed system, and this was the quickest configuration for whatever reason.
edit: after exposure, i don't think it matters how you dry them as long as it isn't blowing dust on them and is efficient. What is shown in the video should be fine.
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Greg racks them horizontally after coating, vertical after he blows the image out.
I rack them in the screen closet which is kept around 30% humidity and 85 degrees until I'm out of room then anywhere I can lean them inside and outside the closet. Summer they go out side. In a rush they go in front of a box fan and heater.
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I've always used a (Hix) drying cabinet. I was considering picking up another. I was watching Greg Kitson's video of his screen production. Mind's Eye Graphics CTS Screen Exposure & Washout Workflow- May 2013 60 + per hour ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZP7kjjTcjU#ws[/url]) I see he dries his screens sideways with a box fan blowing down on them. Greg Kitson is a person who I view as really having his stuff together. So, I'm wondering what are the advantages to drying screens Standing vertically (as in this video) as opposed to horizontally (as in my drying cabinet). And what is the better way to dry them for speed and overall results (drying cabinet or box fan).
Main reason I ask this is that I am in the process of moving my shop (same building, just a few doors down). I am setting up the screen room/area now. My gut says if Greg's doing them this way I should set myself up that way too.
I would be interested to measure the thickness, and compare the EOM of his stencils from one end to the other.
I'm a big believer in things like gravity, and its affect on things like liquids.
Oh, and to answer your question, I use a cabinet with a dehumidifier, and dry horizontally , substrate side down.
I can also assure you that my screen throughput is absolutely minuscule compared to Greg's.
It's usually a good idea for posters to distinguish which drying process they are referring to.
In our case we stand them up in front of a fan after a quick blast with the air hose. The reason for us standing them up is because the water runs off versus sitting on the screen possibly creating more scum.
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Greg racks them horizontally after coating, vertical after he blows the image out.
So glad to hear that. (Unfortunately, I do know of at least one fairly well known printer who does the vertical thing with emulsion, and has shown that in videos as well)
I also usually dry recently cleaned screens vertically.
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I was wondering about both drying processes. But I guess it would make sense that a coated screen is horizontal. I never thought of keeping the exposed screens vertical for scumming. But that does seem to make sense.
Keep the answers coming please. I guess the main question now would be how do you dry you exposed screens. Horizontally or vertically? If there re true advantages to vertical than I should probably set up a rack similar to what Greg has in his video.
For the people doing them vertically, how are you storing them? I'm a pretty small volume shop so I do not need anything crazy.
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2 Vastex drying cabinets.
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So glad to hear that. (Unfortunately, I do know of at least one fairly well known printer who does the vertical thing with emulsion, and has shown that in videos as well)
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I can respect his BBQ technique... but his printing had to suffer from that particular practice.
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Vertical can also CREATE a scumming problem. As your scum will run down into the image area... This is how I first experienced scumming (under exposed screen of course).
The best thing is to get all the water off to start with. With have a badass squeegee and then hit with the air hose in the image area. A vacuum attachment might be better and I've been meaning to spring for it. Might do that right now.
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Assorted drying cabinets that we buy used when price is right.
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A vacuum attachment might be better and I've been meaning to spring for it. Might do that right now.
I was in a pretty high production shop a few months ago the screen guy was showing me their DTS, he sprayed it out and after he used a vacuum. It was a wet/dry vac with maybe a 12" wide attachment on it, but it also had a small squeegee incorporated into it. Pretty friggin' sweet!
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A vacuum attachment might be better and I've been meaning to spring for it. Might do that right now.
I was in a pretty high production shop a few months ago the screen guy was showing me their DTS, he sprayed it out and after he used a vacuum. It was a wet/dry vac with maybe a 12" wide attachment on it, but it also had a small squeegee incorporated into it. Pretty friggin' sweet!
Good job not getting a picture of that. :p
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Got a great mental picture, full color and all!
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I would think something like this would work: http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-Wet-Nozzle-Squeegee-Accessory-VT2510/100046467#.UqSR2uIXm50 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-Wet-Nozzle-Squeegee-Accessory-VT2510/100046467#.UqSR2uIXm50)
I have a major scumming problem in my shop right now, due to purposefully underexposing on my tube unit to prevent undercutting (i post expose, then do a second pressure wash). I'd imagine a properly exposed screen could be squeegeed off on both sides pretty quickly without hurting the stencil.
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Gilligan- while we are pointing fingers, why don't you show us yours! Unless you have something to hide! :P
You are actually in luck, me and the boy are heading to the "man mall" now to walk around. I'll see if I can't find the attachment I was talking about.
Mimosa- that's a pretty bad as cabinet! Someone like DIY projects! I am with you in that.
We should have a DIY or a DIMS(did it my self) section on the board! Bet we could have all kinds of cool projects to waste our time on!
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I just said I hadn't ordered it yet. :p
But I did right after that.
This is like what I'm getting... Ordered from Charlie's site though.
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/2c4byx3/products/114/images/325/Magi_Vacuum_Nozzle__23486.1368754452.1280.1280.jpg)
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(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/2c4byx3/products/114/images/325/Magi_Vacuum_Nozzle__23486.1368754452.1280.1280.jpg)
Okay Mimosa, get to work! We expect the plans here by the end of next week ;)
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Ok, you guys are in luck! just picked up what I was talking about here are the pics Gilligan asked so nicely for-
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/IMG_20131208_120024_zpse76476f2.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/Twinc/IMG_20131208_115954_zps369ce1d8.jpg)
Here is where I got it(on sale this week, it must be a sign!) I know this is kinda a midwest store, but you can buy online. There is also probably the same thing all over Amazon and other stores. If for some odd reason this is the only place in the universe to buy it and you are banned from buying online or something :o, I would be happy to buy them and ship them out to people.
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools/wet-dry-vacuums/performax-1-7-8-floor-nozzle/p-1885898-c-10092.htm (http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tools/wet-dry-vacuums/performax-1-7-8-floor-nozzle/p-1885898-c-10092.htm)
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Plain old window washing squeegee works just fine for us, gets 90% of the water off. Then dried in a horizontal rack with a fan under our light/block-out table. If we're in a real hurry we use compressed air after the squeegee and can be dry ready for block-out in ~3 minutes. We had a ~$100 vacuum squeegee at an old shop, but with the hose and noise it was cumbersome and never got used as the guys preferred a simple window squeegee.
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I want the vac attachment mainly for freshly reclaimed screens. Squeegees don't do much and it isn't recommended to use the air hose on the clean screen.
Good job Alex... Just when everyone was saying you we're useless, you came in and proved me right! Good job! ;)
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([url]http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/2c4byx3/products/114/images/325/Magi_Vacuum_Nozzle__23486.1368754452.1280.1280.jpg[/url])
Okay Mimosa, get to work! We expect the plans here by the end of next week ;)
what am I building? :D I need direction!
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I want the vac attachment mainly for freshly reclaimed screens. Squeegees don't do much and it isn't recommended to use the air hose on the clean screen.
Good job Alex... Just when everyone was saying you we're useless, you came in and proved me right! Good job! ;)
You're in that much of a rush to coat? We occasionally get in a rush to get a screen shot and into production, but I guess we have enough screens in rotation that we're rarely in such a rush that we need to force-dry so we can coat them. We have a sealed cabinet with a fan drawing air out of it and a hepa filter on the intake vent for drying reclaimed or freshly coated screens. They can be ready to go in 2 hours for either operation.
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We using the following. Hooks up to our compressor. Screens are dry in no time.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I was getting dizzy.
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Rockers, where did you get that whole shebang? I want. We use air too but the nozzle we have isn't ideal.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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They are air knifes you can get at an industral supply like Grainger, Mc Master, MSC, etc.
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Rockers, where did you get that whole shebang? I want. We use air too but the nozzle we have isn't ideal.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
I`ve got mine from Amazon here in Japan, not sure if Amazon.com has them too.
But they should be easy to get hold of.
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Yeah, you have brought those up in the past but didn't have them yet... Are they all they claim to be? Less air consumption, better coverage, all that?
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I just said I hadn't ordered it yet. :p
But I did right after that.
This is like what I'm getting... Ordered from Charlie's site though.
([url]http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/2c4byx3/products/114/images/325/Magi_Vacuum_Nozzle__23486.1368754452.1280.1280.jpg[/url])
We use a metal version of this that we've had for 15 years at least, then into the screen dryer. I used fans for years before we picked up the dryer at auction. I think someone had plans for making this vacuum head on the SPOF...
Steve
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I semi-joked with Mimosa about coming up with plans for one, but at $9, unless someone knows of a negative, something like the floor squeegee/sucker that TCT got makes the PVC fittings and the labor involved seem less practical. It would have to be, like some of Mimosa's and other's projects, done as a labor of love.
(http://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Hardware/CLEVA001/ProductLarge/2404807.jpg)
* I'm waiting for the first post of someone complaining that they got one, and the first time they tried it, it messed up the screen, and clogged with emulsion. :o
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Tried squeeges, old newspapers, plastic shop vac floor attachment, (as pictured) does not work all that well...all else pales beside the "hammer head" (used to be called "seri-vac") High pressure air works well, but if you don't have central compressor, kind of a pain. Seriously, just bite the bullet, get a hammerhead with a dedicated shop vac and move on to the next weak link!
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Seriously a blast with from the air gun to remove the bulk of the water and then placed in front of fans is all it takes.
They make a vac attachment specifically for us but it is ridiculously expensive.
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After we rinse we wipe back with a paper towel, then wipe and blot the front with paper towel then go around outside of frame then in front of a box fan vertically..never an issue.
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One of the cool things about this biz, is that there are lots of approaches to solve any given problem...I have always preferred the high pressure air approach to clearing water from an image, but, lacking a central compressor, it's not an option here...I MUCH prefer the noise of a shop vac to a "mini jackhammer" air compressor...With our inherent underexposure, wiping/blotting on the inside of a freshly exposed screen is likely to smear undercooked emulsion everywhere. Tried it all, FINALLY got the bosses to pony up for the hammerhead, and wonder how on earth I got by without it...One less weak link! Well worth the small expense, (IMHO!) Hang it up for a minute or two, suck it, lay it flat under the fan in my home built, de-humidified, cabinet until dry, secondary burn (if necessary), and voila! I am as retentive as I can be around here...in my fuzzy lil mind, it's all about eliminating variables.
But, as a wise man once said..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it"! LOL!
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Tried a bunch of things in here including a dry vac and window squeegee and clean, plentiful, compressed air wins. You'll need an additional coalescing filter but it's worth the small cost to get air in your coating/resolving/degreasing area.
Bonus benefit that wound up being huge for us- hitting degreased, dried screens with air before coating. Eliminates a lot of errant pinhole issue that are not chem/back spray related.
In my recent search for a better air gun for this I found these, in case it's helpful. High flow and wide patterns, looks good:
http://www.amazon.com/Vacula-VAC112100450-MultiFLOW-Blow-Fluid/dp/B005257QYG#productDetails (http://www.amazon.com/Vacula-VAC112100450-MultiFLOW-Blow-Fluid/dp/B005257QYG#productDetails)
http://www.mcmaster.com/#blowguns/=pqgdzg (http://www.mcmaster.com/#blowguns/=pqgdzg)
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since my shop is small I can do things that some you fat cats can't or just will slow you all down, but I dry my screens with a fan also, and use those blue shop towels to dry up some the water out the image, one roll last for a really long time. I do like the way Greg's guy pre-soak the screens then blast them..allways something good to learn on this forum.
Darryl
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Tried a bunch of things in here including a dry vac and window squeegee and clean, plentiful, compressed air wins. You'll need an additional coalescing filter but it's worth the small cost to get air in your coating/resolving/degreasing area.
Bonus benefit that wound up being huge for us- hitting degreased, dried screens with air before coating. Eliminates a lot of errant pinhole issue that are not chem/back spray related.
In my recent search for a better air gun for this I found these, in case it's helpful. High flow and wide patterns, looks good:
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Vacula-VAC112100450-MultiFLOW-Blow-Fluid/dp/B005257QYG#productDetails[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Vacula-VAC112100450-MultiFLOW-Blow-Fluid/dp/B005257QYG#productDetails[/url])
[url]http://www.mcmaster.com/#blowguns/=pqgdzg[/url] ([url]http://www.mcmaster.com/#blowguns/=pqgdzg[/url])
The important word here is "clean"...
Steve
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I semi-joked with Mimosa about coming up with plans for one, but at $9, unless someone knows of a negative, something like the floor squeegee/sucker that TCT got makes the PVC fittings and the labor involved seem less practical. It would have to be, like some of Mimosa's and other's projects, done as a labor of love.
([url]http://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Hardware/CLEVA001/ProductLarge/2404807.jpg[/url])
* I'm waiting for the first post of someone complaining that they got one, and the first time they tried it, it messed up the screen, and clogged with emulsion. :o
The prebuilt ones being only 9 dollars makes me less inclined to try to DIY something like this, unless they didn't work very well :D
That said, I'll probably get one, and if it isn't up to par I may spend some time "modifying" it.
A bit of a tangent, but I would LOVE a DIY subsection on the forum. I probably have 10 or 15 well documented DIY projects related to printing. Everything from the drying cabinet I linked earlier in this thread, to squeegee racks, to small modifications or self made tools that help with standard processes. I would be happy to share and get feedback, and of course see what others have done. I know things like Alan's reverse engineered and modified tri-loc would fit right into a subforum like that.
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A bit of a tangent, but I would LOVE a DIY subsection on the forum. I probably have 10 or 15 well documented DIY projects related to printing. Everything from the drying cabinet I linked earlier in this thread, to squeegee racks, to small modifications or self made tools that help with standard processes. I would be happy to share and get feedback, and of course see what others have done. I know things like Alan's reverse engineered and modified tri-loc would fit right into a subforum like that.
*LIKE*
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A bit of a tangent, but I would LOVE a DIY subsection on the forum. I probably have 10 or 15 well documented DIY projects related to printing. Everything from the drying cabinet I linked earlier in this thread, to squeegee racks, to small modifications or self made tools that help with standard processes. I would be happy to share and get feedback, and of course see what others have done. I know things like Alan's reverse engineered and modified tri-loc would fit right into a subforum like that.
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Shanarchy and 1 other likes this.
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A bit of a tangent, but I would LOVE a DIY subsection on the forum. I probably have 10 or 15 well documented DIY projects related to printing. Everything from the drying cabinet I linked earlier in this thread, to squeegee racks, to small modifications or self made tools that help with standard processes. I would be happy to share and get feedback, and of course see what others have done. I know things like Alan's reverse engineered and modified tri-loc would fit right into a subforum like that.
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Shanarchy and 1 other likes this.
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Well, if you like that, you should love this!
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/board,79.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/board,79.0.html)
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I mounted one of my old windshield wipers to a handle....fits perfectly inside the 23 31 screen...one quick pass on each side and then in front of a fan, 5 minutes or so....
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I mounted one of my old windshield wipers to a handle....fits perfectly inside the 23 31 screen...one quick pass on each side and then in front of a fan, 5 minutes or so....
Love it!
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Well, if you like that, you should love this!
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/board,79.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/board,79.0.html)
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Thanks Frog!
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I just said I hadn't ordered it yet. :p
But I did right after that.
This is like what I'm getting... Ordered from Charlie's site though.
([url]http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/2c4byx3/products/114/images/325/Magi_Vacuum_Nozzle__23486.1368754452.1280.1280.jpg[/url])
We use a metal version of this that we've had for 15 years at least, then into the screen dryer. I used fans for years before we picked up the dryer at auction. I think someone had plans for making this vacuum head on the SPOF...
Steve
Yep... Bought the PVC pipe and sat on it for 6 months... Realized how dumb that was vs the $90 bucks for the real deal... Done.