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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ScreenPrinter123 on January 06, 2014, 10:18:33 AM
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For all of you squeegee sharpening shops:
So, are there any tell-tale signs on the squeegee (aside from something really uneven) that can tell you your squeegees need to be sharpened? Was having issues getting tidy white to pass through 180S mesh last week at 30 psi going at 8"/second on a 65/95/65 squeegee, which is strange. Tension on mesh was c. 30 newtons, off contact was typical, pallets were warm enough, ink was fluid enough..... wondering if the squeegees need to be sharpened -- never done it, so no idea what to look for on the squeegee itself to confirm or disconfirm it.
Gracias.
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This from print guru Coudray...
"To determine if the edge is sharp, lightly drag a finger tip over the squeegee edge. If you can feel the individual ridges of your fingerprints, the blade is sharp enough. If you can’t, it’s time to sharpen the blade."
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+1 to the fingerprint test. When we see a scenario like you described it's very often a dull blade edge. I've been rotating instead of sharpening but am going to move us to light sharpening/honing the blades before each run this year. All other things being in place, it can make the difference between a 1x and a 2x stroke which can be a huge deal some days.
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Well just noticing a # of people here willing to part with their sharpener recently and seemingly a # of people wanting them, so who is getting the raw end, the buyer or seller? LOL.
If anyone has a sharpener they're looking to part with pm me.
Has anyone used this one yet? Seemingly only $445 and am hearing it can do auto squeegees too. (We have 16" m&r assembly squeegees): http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html (http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html)
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Well just noticing a # of people here willing to part with their sharpener recently and seemingly a # of people wanting them, so who is getting the raw end, the buyer or seller? LOL.
If anyone has a sharpener they're looking to part with pm me.
Has anyone used this one yet? Seemingly only $445 and am hearing it can do auto squeegees too. (We have 16" m&r assembly squeegees): [url]http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html[/url] ([url]http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html[/url])
I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that the image on this link is of the $445 diamond EZ Table Top Kit. I might be totally wrong and suggest that you check in with the folks at Florida Flex just to make sure.
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Well just noticing a # of people here willing to part with their sharpener recently and seemingly a # of people wanting them, so who is getting the raw end, the buyer or seller? LOL.
If anyone has a sharpener they're looking to part with pm me.
Has anyone used this one yet? Seemingly only $445 and am hearing it can do auto squeegees too. (We have 16" m&r assembly squeegees): [url]http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html[/url] ([url]http://floridaflex.com/squeegees.html[/url])
I looked at the same one. I know it's a diy kit. It says for manual squeegees. I was told that the diamond ez kit might not allow the auto blades to reach the diamond wheel. I just purchased a diamond short cut and should receive it Thursday. As far as benefits of sharpening, I can tell you that the other day I was printing through a 180/48 mesh and at first I was getting a little blur at the bottom of the image. The only thing I changed was to a sharper squeegee because the original was a little dull edged and that fixed the problem and that leads me to believe that a sharpener will be great addition to the shop. It sure beats buying new squeegee rolls and taking the time to cut and round corners. I'm pretty sure that the sharpener will benefit us greatly when it comes to simulated and 4 color process jobs for sure. I'm going to sharpen before every process job.
If you can't find a used one. I was contacted by fimor and was told that they are offering show specials on all of the sharpeners at 10% off. If you want just pm me with your email and I'll send you the price list they sent me.
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So is Fimor the m&r of the squeegee sharpening world, though I see m&r has one as well? Other recommended brands by anyone that have a good price point? Again, just needing a small one that does 16" squeegees (though I'm guessing the smallest ones do up to 20") with m&r squeegee holder assemblies (don't know if that matters or not with these smaller ones).
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Watching one video of the Diamond-eez you could see it doing a manual squeegee and something that has a shorter "handle" might not reach the bit but it looks extremely easy to fix that. The positioning holes that are already built into the cheaper unit can be replicated easily to allow for a shorter blade assembly.
If for some strange reason I'm not satisfied with the diamond-eez I have a plan to build a DIY unit (or rather piece together one from existing tools). I can get a cheap tabletop router for wood projects and buy the diamond bits needed and I might have to rig up some sort of guide to get the squeegee to run perfectly parallel to the bit. With a few adapations it will work just as good as a $1500 unit assuming you have a good diamond bit and have a good guide assembly for the squeegee. With a tabletop router and one drill bit you're looking at a cost of around $400 or less.
I'm not cheap by any means but when I look at the squeegee sharpeners I'm almost blown away by the up front cost. I understand the ROI and all that but if I can make one that functions at 100% for $400 instead of buying the $1500 then I'm all about DIY.
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Stumbled across these glass grinders that are very inexpensive and run at around 2800 rpm. The only thing would be to add some kind of rip fence. They sell the bits too and I was told that they are used in some squeegee sharpeners.
Now someone come up with a good way to add some rail guides for a fence and we are in business.
Grinder table - http://www.inlandcraft.com/singleproduct.asp?position=3&department_id=40&keyword=&category=&partnum=10650 (http://www.inlandcraft.com/singleproduct.asp?position=3&department_id=40&keyword=&category=&partnum=10650)
(http://www.inlandcraft.com/user_area/photo_raw/10650c1.jpg)
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clamp on one of these bad boys....watcha think for a squeegee sharpener under $200
http://www.amazon.com/E-Emerson-Tool-C24-All-In-One/dp/B002NZZE7O/ref=pd_sim_hi_2 (http://www.amazon.com/E-Emerson-Tool-C24-All-In-One/dp/B002NZZE7O/ref=pd_sim_hi_2)
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Perfect. Very similar to the router table I was looking at yesterday but more portable and better access to the bit.
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I found the Cadillac of squeegee sharpeners used for a great price and jumped on the deal, way more than what I needed, ROI - Long time from now, but happiness factor is through the roof. 60" capacity, 6" diameter diamond wheel, auto feed and .005" depth increase on every pass. you set the width of the squeegee, and the number of passes you want it to make, hit the switch and walk away and it shuts itself and the vacuum off when it's done.
I've mentioned this before, but sharpening the squeegee is only half the benefit, the other half is having a perfectly true-straight edge to print with, you don't have to use print pressure to overcome irregularities in the print edge that you get on pretty much any squeegee not trued after inserted in a handle. Put a straight edge on almost any non-sharpened squeegee to see what I mean. I'd bet almost all are out by at least .030" or more. I'd bet the M&R clamp system is better than most, but still not perfect.
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I appreciate good engineering as much or more than the next guy, but good lord that's a bit much for sharpening a few blades. I'd take one at a good price but I can't imagine what one of those would cost new.
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New would have been a no-go, Used at a good price was what made me buy. Later this week we have $200 worth of sharpening to do for a local shop. I might actually achieve ROI after all in a few years.
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Just spent a whopping $144.14 on a clamping tool, steel flat bar, and diamond grinder (meant for stained glass) that has a variable speed of 0-2800 rpm and 3/4" 120 grit diamond bit. All new products so we shall see if the idea in my head plays out as I am hoping it will because this would be a cool cheap alternative to a commercial squeegee sharpener.
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Feed speed and rotation speed will be key, both have to be slow enough to not build up heat and start melting the squeegee, but fast enough to leave a good surface behind, that's where a bigger wheel is great, but boy are they expensive.
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IIRC, the small wheels were around two hundred and the big ones were close to six. I did a bit of research down the road some of you guys are, and found that 1200 didn't sound that expensive once I figured in a diamond wheel, motor, good linear bearing and carriage, micrometer, some custom machining, and a good cabinet... not to mention design and labor time.
All that being said, I'd still love to see someone build something cheap that works. ;)
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Which is why I am in the camp of simply replacing the blade.
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I had a shop come by and use our sharpener, he said his blades hadn't been sharpened in 15 years...how scary is that?
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Scary, but not unusual, the first t-shirt shop I worked in it looked like someone had radiused the edges of the squeegee blades they were so dull. I had a buddy send me a used chunk of 70 durometer blade and stuck it in and showed the owner the difference it made. We tried to have the old blades sharpened, but they just disintegrated.
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I purchased a DIY kit from Encore Engineering years ago at a show (at a discount). Just changing the blades seemed like a waste to me. I have both rough and a fine diamond wheels. They leave a very nice surface. The diamond wheels have lasted forever. If you treat your squeegees well and never have a nick or waver then it might not be a big deal. But I printed with solvent inks for years and sharpening the blade made a huge difference. The edge definitely deteriorated faster with solvent exposure. The diamond ground edges were much less susceptible to attack by solvents than a sanded blade in my experience. Plastisol and waterbase aren't such a pain. However, I REALLY like a nice clean edge and a true flat blade. So the investment was worth it for me and I give the squeegees a pass on the table after a long run.
The whole trick to a manual sharpening set up is to go slow and only take a little off at a time.
The Encore kit was a good deal when I figured in the diamond wheels and the slower drive motor. A lot of other devices like routers and such will need a speed controller added into the mix.
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Long ago at another company we used to use an Encore "blade" sharpener.
Not sure if they still make them.
It actually had a -heated razor blade- that sliced a new "factory edge" on them.
It took off more than a diamond wheel, but was as smooth as when extruded at factory.
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New would have been a no-go, Used at a good price was what made me buy. Later this week we have $200 worth of sharpening to do for a local shop. I might actually achieve ROI after all in a few years.
The real question is how much tape are you using? Damnit! Sorry, couldn't help it!
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Those squeegee blade slicers were well known among flat stock and solvent ink printers. Really nice "sealed" surface on the cut blade. Supposedly much more solvent resistant. But those edges didn't last that much longer than a diamond grind IMO. Flat stock printing made me more aware of how much the blade edge mattered.
If I stop using so much tape packaging other non screenprinting things I wouldn't be spending much at all! :)
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Has anyone used the older belt style and can compare to the diamond wheel?
The hot knife sounds ideal.
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We had the non-heated blade style, but it had deflection issues on both ends where the knife entered and exited the squeegee blade. The knives were only good for 1-2 uses too as they had to be stupid sharp to work at all, we upgraded to the diamond wheel there and found it to be better. Good squeegee blade should not have serious issues with solvent ink even if they have been abraded, just be sure to rest the squeegee for 24 hours before sharpening to allow any swelling to go dissipate. We worked with everything from Epoxy, UV, and Vinyl solvent inks to silver-filled conductive, dielectric and eletro-luminescent and photo-luminescent inks, even catalyzed silicone inks without issue.
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Has anyone used the older belt style and can compare to the diamond wheel?
The hot knife sounds ideal.
I sold my belt style when I found a Diamond cut used , I prefer it over the belt we were using. Only con is with the diamond cut you have to have a nice fluid pull across the blade without any stops or stalls because it will create a dent, that you will need to then remove more material to sharpen.
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Exactly and this can be extremely time consuming as in theory, you start with coarse, move to medium, then to fine. I'd rather have employees printing.
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I'm kinda thinking belt would be ok for what I'm envisioning. We wouldn't change grits, just polish blades each morning before carting, only those that are going to be used that day. This way the blade never has a chance to actually get dull and need genuine sharpening, it would just take a quick pass or two with a high grit in the morning, after the rubber had a night to rest up.
And you get a bonus belt sander for those woodworking projects, as one craigslister in my area thought his was for.
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We worked with everything from Epoxy, UV, and Vinyl solvent inks to silver-filled conductive, dielectric and eletro-luminescent and photo-luminescent inks, even catalyzed silicone inks without issue.
Inkworks~
Man talk about hard core to the hilt!!!
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I received my diamond short cut today. I've never had a squeegee sharpener because I've always just replaced the blades. This thing will definitely do the trick. You can almost cut yourself with the edges. The other thing that stuck out to me is that it was unbelievable how one side of the squeegees were drooping down on one side or the other sometimes by as much as an eighth of an inch in the M&R holders. I could never see it with the naked eye partly because I'm about half blind but I think that will help with the printing. I think that will be one my best additions to the shop.
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I received my diamond short cut today. I've never had a squeegee sharpener because I've always just replaced the blades. This thing will definitely do the trick. You can almost cut yourself with the edges. The other thing that stuck out to me is that it was unbelievable how one side of the squeegees were drooping down on one side or the other sometimes by as much as an eighth of an inch in the M&R holders. I could never see it with the naked eye partly because I'm about half blind but I think that will help with the printing. I think that will be one my best additions to the shop.
Everything all good with it Doug?
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Yeah Danny, it's definitely what I needed. Thanks for the fast shipping and great deal.