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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: spotcolorsupply on August 01, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
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We are ready to bring on an ink line..... Before we do this I would love some feedback from some end users.
What line should we consider..??
There are many manufacturers out there, and I’m not even sure who will work with us, but this is the list of possibilities.
Wilflex
Rutland
Triangle
One stroke
Excalibur
WM Plastics
International Coatings
Any input would be appreciated. This is a big step for our company, and I don’t want to F this up... ;D
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I'm a fan of Wilflex. We use to use a lot of Triangle, but I heard they are discontinued now?
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Any reason Union wasn't mentioned on your list?
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Good question..
After working with just about every system out there in the last 20 yrs, I'm going with Wilflex MX Epic series.
It's a choice that comes with shipping costs as theirs no supply of it here in San Diego.. meaning I can't drive to a supply house in SD and buy it off the shelf, i have to have it shipped. The shelves around here are loaded with rutland, IC, and triangle.
When I was back in Boston and the northeast, I could take my pick from about 5 supply houses fully stocked with Wilflex but this time had to have the Rutland shipped in.
It all comes down to region and where your printers are based.
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We use to use a lot of Triangle, but I heard they are discontinued now?
Really?? Didn’t kno that. Thanks for the info ;D
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OK.
I'm new to screen printing and as far as look at the ink (so far) I look to find the white I'm going to use and after that it seams that all other colors will be from the same mfgh. I have received and pint of WM white that I liked and I'm going to place an order for a gallon, I have already tried a few other WM colors and they all printed good. If that gallon prints good, they will have all my business.
What I'm trying to say is, get contract with the company that has a nice printing white ink and the rest of the colors should not be a problem to sell.
That is how I look at it (at least I hope that is a correct way to look at it :) )
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Well, are you looking to be another dealer for an already widely distributed line like Wilflex, IC, Rutland (or now their subsidiaries, Union and QCM), or filling a need for someone with a small network, like;
One Stroke has a fan base but I don't even know if they sell through dealers. I know that they dropped distribution to my part of the world, California Bay Area.
Another, Excalibur impressed me but has nobody closer than SoCal, or maybe even Arizona. Are they already readily available in your area?
I see WM and Triangle pop up in white ink discussions, but I've never seen or tried any of their products and have no idea of their distribution situation.
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Any reason Union wasn't mentioned on your list?
Union, Rutland, and QCM are all the same company now. But you are right they should be included bc I’m not sure if they come as a package or if we can only rep one at a time..??
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OK.
I'm new to screen printing and as far as look at the ink (so far) I look to find the white I'm going to use and after that it seams that all other colors will be from the same mfgh. I have received and pint of WM white that I liked and I'm going to place an order for a gallon, I have already tried a few other WM colors and they all printed good. If that gallon prints good, they will have all my business.
What I'm trying to say is, get contract with the company that has a nice printing white ink and the rest of the colors should not be a problem to sell.
That is how I look at it (at least I hope that is a correct way to look at it :) )
I have also found that printers tend to follow the white they like. Colors seem to almost be a non issue; white is always the barrier to getting into a shop....
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Well, are you looking to be another dealer for an already widely distributed line like Wilflex, IC, Rutland (or now their subsidiaries, Union and QCM),
That is the thing.... We are not sure. I sold Wilflex into the Atlanta market for years with 3 other distributors within 100 miles and did really well... But bringing a new product to market is appealing.... I would rather not be the "Me To" guy... Seems like price is all that matters at that point...
or filling a need for someone with a small network, like;
One Stroke has a fan base but I don't even know if they sell through dealers. I know that they dropped distribution to my part of the world, California Bay Area.
Another, Excalibur impressed me but has nobody closer than SoCal, or maybe even Arizona. Are they already readily available in your area?
I think you are right about One Stroke... And no Excalibur isn’t readily available at all... I personally like Rutland/Union, but I’m not sure they will show us any love... :-[
There are a few distributors of Rutland products in surrounding states, but they have not penetrated Atlanta at all. Hell there is a Rutland/QCM dealer in Atlanta, but I am not sure who they are selling to...
I see WM and Triangle pop up in white ink discussions, but I've never seen or tried any of their products and have no idea of their distribution situation.
Same here, I rarely see anyone using their color line.
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Good question..
After working with just about every system out there in the last 20 yrs, I'm going with Wilflex MX Epic series.
It's a choice that comes with shipping costs as theirs no supply of it here in San Diego.. meaning I can't drive to a supply house in SD and buy it off the shelf, i have to have it shipped. The shelves around here are loaded with rutland, IC, and triangle.
When I was back in Boston and the northeast, I could take my pick from about 5 supply houses fully stocked with Wilflex but this time had to have the Rutland shipped in.
It all comes down to region and where your printers are based.
Wilflex is an awesome ink.... I am not sure if they will work with us tho. It sux to be the new guy on the block sometimes..!!! Atlanta is flooded with wilflex distributors. I put in a call to Rob Coleman today. We will see what they say...
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I have heard wilflex is dumping every line of ink and going to just the epic line. . .I hope not because it is stupid expensive.
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I have heard wilflex is dumping every line of ink and going to just the epic line. . .I hope not because it is stupid expensive.
Yeah I heard the same thing.... In the past epic was 20% more than GNS... Not sure if that is still the case, but still a pricey ink line..
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OK.
I'm new to screen printing and as far as look at the ink (so far) I look to find the white I'm going to use and after that it seams that all other colors will be from the same mfgh. I have received and pint of WM white that I liked and I'm going to place an order for a gallon, I have already tried a few other WM colors and they all printed good. If that gallon prints good, they will have all my business.
What I'm trying to say is, get contract with the company that has a nice printing white ink and the rest of the colors should not be a problem to sell.
That is how I look at it (at least I hope that is a correct way to look at it :) )
I have also found that printers tend to follow the white they like. Colors seem to almost be a non issue; white is always the barrier to getting into a shop....
I would agree with that... colors are pretty much the same no matter what brand it's the white inks that set one company apart from the other.
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I have heard wilflex is dumping every line of ink and going to just the epic line. . .I hope not because it is stupid expensive.
Not dumping, rather they just aren't going to make certain lines anymore. This applies to every ink manufacturer that makes 'classic' plastisol. It's not entirely up to them, the raw material that is used to make conventional inks, is no longer made by 2 major petroleum distillers and being removed from production by another 2 in the coming yrs. The cost for that raw product has increased 300-500% in the last 5 yrs as the demand for phalate compliant/free inks has finally reached a demand that outweighs conventional inks. As this shift of cost moves towards compliant inks and more demand arises for the product, the cost will come down.
In the end, you don't have a choice to switch inks so start doing it now. The new Epic line mixes right into your existing MX line so there is nothing to do but just buy ink like you already do.
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I have heard wilflex is dumping every line of ink and going to just the epic line. . .I hope not because it is stupid expensive.
Not dumping, rather they just aren't going to make certain lines anymore. This applies to every ink manufacturer that makes 'classic' plastisol. It's not entirely up to them, the raw material that is used to make conventional inks, is no longer made by 2 major petroleum distillers and being removed from production by another 2 in the coming yrs. The cost for that raw product has increased 300-500% in the last 5 yrs as the demand for phalate compliant/free inks has finally reached a demand that outweighs conventional inks. As this shift of cost moves towards compliant inks and more demand arises for the product, the cost will come down.
In the end, you don't have a choice to switch inks so start doing it now. The new Epic line mixes right into your existing MX line so there is nothing to do but just buy ink like you already do.
Correct John. They are doing what they have to do. Not only for the above reasons but it doesn't make sense any more to carry and manufacture that many different products. Cash flow and production efficiencies suffer greatly. Looks like a few of the Epic products are a couple of dollars cheaper than Classic while others are the same are a few bucks more. My concern is performance. Time will tell. I did get through to Polyone Tech Services and talked to an actual person. They are not finished rolling over several products such as some of the bases, reducers, metallics, process colors, HD inks, and the less popular colors.
Brannon I would suggest Rutland or QCM since the QCM will soon be produced out of Pineville. Of course American Niagra carries both so.........BTW I talked to Scott I have some frames ready for pickup.
tp
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So how bout Excalibur Ink..? Anyone have any experience with it? We talked to a rep today, and the prices/options sound pretty good, but I have not seen much in my area (I actually like that). They even claim to be larger than wilflex outside of the US... :o
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Excalibur is pretty big in Europe and I heard good things. Where are you located, I will be willing to consider it if you are close to me.
Shipping knows to kill any good deals :)
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We are in Georgia... I have talked to a few printers about it so far, and haven’t heard much, but the few that have used it had good things to say!! Thanks for the info.
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The white and black Excalibur that I got as a bonus with some frames and other equipment from now defunct Arron some years back was good stuff. I still have a little black, and wish that I had gotten more of their Arctic White. To me, it was very similar to Wilflex Artist.
I believe that Jeff Proctor, formerly of Union may be with them. He was pretty knowledgeable.
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So how bout Excalibur Ink..? Anyone have any experience with it? We talked to a rep today, and the prices/options sound pretty good, but I have not seen much in my area (I actually like that). They even claim to be larger than wilflex outside of the US... :o
We used Excalibur several years back when we were real newbies and the distributor was in Phily, however, several times they didn't have the color we needed or were out of stock, & they would order it directly from Canada. Unfortunately, what we found out later, the shipping killed us because we were also paying import charges into the U.S. So we ended that & found a distributor in our state that sold Union and have been very happy with them. However, I don't see a problem using more than 1 distributor - maybe you would like the white ink from one company and a certain type of ink from another, but it does come down to practicality too. It wouldn't be worth it for me to use a distributor in California (we'd have to wait a week before we received it) and the shipping would be higher. Just my 2 cents......
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if it were MY company, I would buy a few samples of every ink on the market and perform tests and see what I found to be the best. Then I could stand behind what I sell and say it is THE best. . . not based on what other people say. . .but that's me, I know you have to sell what sells. Maybe there is a brand new to the US you can snag. . .I just can't stand it when I ask a rep -hey how does this ink work on a _____ and they just read off the pdf sheet. . .I want a salesman that has field experience with what they are selling.. . but we all know I am clearly nuts so I may be expecting too much. . .
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especially with all of the new inks rolling out. with the new requirements formulas are changing.
or just go hang with tony for a day and learn everything there is to know.
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if it were MY company, I would buy a few samples of every ink on the market and perform tests and see what I found to be the best. Then I could stand behind what I sell and say it is THE best. . . not based on what other people say. . .but that's me, I know you have to sell what sells. Maybe there is a brand new to the US you can snag. . .I just can't stand it when I ask a rep -hey how does this ink work on a _____ and they just read off the pdf sheet. . .I want a salesman that has field experience with what they are selling.. . but we all know I am clearly nuts so I may be expecting too much. . .
Man I wish it were that easy....
First off ink manufacturers don’t just hand out distributorships. Wilflex seems to already be off the table, and Rutland is on the fence at best.
Besides that printers are some of the most opinionated people I’ve ever dealt with (I say that with love ;) ).
For example... I can walk in to one shop that loves XYZ White..... Go right down the street to another shop who will quickly tell me that that guy doesn’t know what he is talking about, XYZ White is garbage we only use ABC White...... Go to the next shop and they will tell me they are both idiots and they use 123 White.... :o
I agree that we have to stand behind our products, but repping any ink/product as the best in this industry can actually get you in trouble. I know of an equipment salesman who has repped for almost every manufacturer at one time or another.... Everyone was the best!!! People don’t forget that and you end up losing credibility.
I also agree that good salesman can’t just read off of the tech sheets, but since I’m not a printer, I take the collective opinion from my customers and base my response upon that. I find that allows me to give the most "Real World" information, often based on the experiences of many printers....
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especially with all of the new inks rolling out. with the new requirements formulas are changing.
or just go hang with tony for a day and learn everything there is to know.
I have been picking Toney’s brain for years... Whatever direction we end up going I do hope to get his opinion... ;)
One thing I do like about the Excalibur line is they are already non-phthalate....
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Toney........was that a Freudian Slip? Ha ha JK. I have frames ready for you and we can talk ink any time.
tp
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Toney........was that a Freudian Slip? Ha ha JK. I have frames ready for you and we can talk ink any time.
tp
Woops... lol
We are coming out there tomorrow to pick them up...
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QCM!
Check with Colin and get setup as a QCM dealer. Our dealer here in North Alabama is going out of business and I want someone who stocks things. Infact they have a slew of stuff they are wanting to liquidate. I just couldn't justify buying all that ink right now. If you get setup with QCM I will be your first customer!
Bill
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...second vote on the QCM, especailly if you guys are still plannin to visit us in town periodically!
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I see.. . that's why you are the supplier and I am the printer haha. . .I often wonder, with all these whites available- if the chemists at the manufacturers ever walk over to the window and yell " WHAT THE FK DO YOU PRINTERS WANT?". . .i mean, there are SOOO many whites on the market. . .and they are all some what comparable, but everyone has their likes and dislikes. I have found from my own experiences, that it's not so much the ink itself, but the company I buy it from that has a lot to do with my opinion of it. but again, that's just me.
And I thought Colin was done working at QCM?
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BTW it appears Rutland is mimicking Polyone (or is it the other way around?) by phasing some old standbys and going all pthalate free.
Got me some Streetfighter White to sample next week.
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And I thought Colin was done working at QCM?
Unfortunately you are correct Homer.
I got laid off May 20th and I am looking for full time work. Anyone have a job open that needs my broad skill set?
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QCM!
Check with Colin and get setup as a QCM dealer. Our dealer here in North Alabama is going out of business and I want someone who stocks things. Infact they have a slew of stuff they are wanting to liquidate. I just couldn't justify buying all that ink right now. If you get setup with QCM I will be your first customer!
Bill
That seems to be up to Rutland now..... :'(
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...second vote on the QCM, especailly if you guys are still plannin to visit us in town periodically!
We will be back.... We go where we are needed, and Atlanta seems to be the hot spot right now, but you can be sure SC is in our sights ;)
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I see.. . that's why you are the supplier and I am the printer haha. . .I often wonder, with all these whites available- if the chemists at the manufacturers ever walk over to the window and yell " WHAT THE FK DO YOU PRINTERS WANT?". . .i mean, there are SOOO many whites on the market. . .and they are all some what comparable, but everyone has their likes and dislikes.
Exactly.... The differences in many cases are small, but you could say the same about Coke and Pepsi ;) (Personally I think Pepsi Sux!!!)
I have found from my own experiences, that it's not so much the ink itself, but the company I buy it from that has a lot to do with my opinion of it. but again, that's just me.
You are absolutely right.... Some mix of service, price, and product quality is what a supplier like me uses to gain a customer like you..... ;D
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Pwalsh -you reading this buddy? Colin is looking for a job. . nudge nudge. . I'm sure you have a spot somewhere for his expertise?
he will even relocate, work long thankless hours, listen to customers complain about nonsense, wait 30 days to get paid and get orders out the door at the last minute. . . ;D
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brandon, your region is the southeast. are you going to ship inks across the country? doubtful that you would be competitive. you need to call on printers in nc,sc,ga,tenn and find out what they are running also because thats who you will be selling to most likley. It is kind of unlikly you will convert a 5 year rutland or union guy over to another system, especially if he has a good relationship with his current supplier. I would find out what YOUR COMPETITION is selling, get their pricing then evaluate your business plan befor moving forward.. just my.02
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Pwalsh -you reading this buddy? Colin is looking for a job. . nudge nudge. . I'm sure you have a spot somewhere for his expertise?
he will even relocate, work long thankless hours, listen to customers complain about nonsense, wait 30 days to get paid and get orders out the door at the last minute. . . ;D
I believe my Nazdar rep is retiring this year hint hint
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To Homer and Tonypep,
Thanks!
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brandon, your region is the southeast. are you going to ship inks across the country? doubtful that you would be competitive. you need to call on printers in nc,sc,ga,tenn and find out what they are running also because thats who you will be selling to most likley.
The south east is definitely where we will expend 98% of our time and energy. I hope to one day have a strong online/nation wide presence, but that will have to come in time.
It is kind of unlikly you will convert a 5 year rutland or union guy over to another system, especially if he has a good relationship with his current supplier. I would find out what YOUR COMPETITION is selling, get their pricing then evaluate your business plan befor moving forward.. just my.02
Wilflex is king in Georgia (their manufacturing facility is in Kennesaw GA), when you move into the surrounding states it starts mixing up a bit more. You might be surprised.... From what I’ve found, some mix of Price, Service, and Product Quality can convert almost any shop... My job is to find the appropriate mix for the customer.... ;)
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Service is a HUGE one for me. I am not a great planner...I am getting better though. It's nice to have a wilflex distributor right next door.
I have to say though Brannon, that the house brand of inks you used to sell from the company that will remain nameless weren't that good. The price was, but Wilflex most certainly prints better.
I would rather spend an extra $20 a gallon for ink if it doesn't build up and has better all around printing properties. Price isn't as big of an issue as performance for me. I like to make it as easy as possible on me and my folks.
Although it is an added bonus when something is cheaper and works as good or better.
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Service is a HUGE one for me. I am not a great planner...I am getting better though. It's nice to have a wilflex distributor right next door.
I have to say though Brannon, that the house brand of inks you used to sell from the company that will remain nameless weren't that good. The price was, but Wilflex most certainly prints better.
Wilflex is a great product line... And yes that house brand definitely did not print as well... But you may be surprised at how much of it we sold... ;)
I would rather spend an extra $20 a gallon for ink if it doesn't build up and has better all around printing properties. Price isn't as big of an issue as performance for me. I like to make it as easy as possible on me and my folks.
Although it is an added bonus when something is cheaper and works as good or better.
I hope we end up with a product that is as good or better.... As a supplier not having ink and chemistry is seriously limiting our growth, so even if we end up with house brand quality for now, I know we can sell it.... The main reason I put out this post was for red flags (That ink sux.. It ruined X number of shirts, etc) and so far I haven’t seen any of those... We actually met with a very talented printer yesterday; he specializes in sim process, lots of colors, really nice stuff. He has already promised us his business if we bring in Excalibur (He currently uses Wilflex). That, to me, was a very good sign!!
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Update.....
Just got shot down by Rutland/Union/QCM... :'(
Wilflex has been off of the table... :'(
Excalibur it is!!! Watch out Atlanta... Here we come ;D
We hope to have a full color line, black, and 3 whites in place by mid September!!!
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Does that include free 5 gallon samples? If so, I'll try all 3 whites.
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Let us know when you have it, and make it affordable of course :)
I'm OK with a gallon samples ;D
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brandon, i have not settled on a line yet either. im using up all the misc. ink i got with the 2 shops. please contact me also when you get your product.. thanks rick
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For what it's worth, I was talking to a few guys and come to find out, Excalibur is the only ink Nike uses. . .so I've been told. . .
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Interesting.......I need to reach out to my buds at Paramount.
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You may be surprised but Excalibur is not the only ink that Nike Uses..... Just saying, I might know another ink that they use! :)
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Does that include free 5 gallon samples? If so, I'll try all 3 whites.
For you Brad.... Of course... I’ll get them up there right away... ;)
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Let us know when you have it, and make it affordable of course :)
I'm OK with a gallon samples ;D
I sure will... And it looks like it should be...!!!
Are you sure you dont want 5 gallon samples... ;)
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brandon, i have not settled on a line yet either. im using up all the misc. ink i got with the 2 shops. please contact me also when you get your product.. thanks rick
Good deal.... We want as many opinions as possible when the stuff hits.
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For what it's worth, I was talking to a few guys and come to find out, Excalibur is the only ink Nike uses. . .so I've been told. . .
You may be surprised but Excalibur is not the only ink that Nike Uses..... Just saying, I might know another ink that they use! :)
Either way, I am very happy to hear that.... ;D
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Does that include free 5 gallon samples? If so, I'll try all 3 whites.
Excuse me?!?!
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For what it's worth, I was talking to a few guys and come to find out, Excalibur is the only ink Nike uses. . .so I've been told. . .
Homer: I hate to create any negativity, but you should seriously doubt the honesty of anyone who tells you that Excalibur is an exclusive ink supplier to Nike, and/or their network of authorized sub-contract garment screen-printers. I know with absolute certainty of at least one Nike sub-contractor that is using the Excalibur Evolution (PVC-Free) inks on a Nike program, but for Excalibur to claim that they "own" all of the ink business with Nike is not true.
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For what it's worth, I was talking to a few guys and come to find out, Excalibur is the only ink Nike uses. . .so I've been told. . .
Homer: I hate to create any negativity, but you should seriously doubt the honesty of anyone who tells you that Excalibur is an exclusive ink supplier to Nike, and/or their network of authorized sub-contract garment screen-printers. I know with absolute certainty of at least one Nike sub-contractor that is using the Excalibur Evolution (PVC-Free) inks on a Nike program, but for Excalibur to claim that they "own" all of the ink business with Nike is not true.
this wasn't from Excalibur - this was from someone that sells it. . .naturally. . .haha.. . . .either way, I love me some wilflex. . .
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For what it's worth, I was talking to a few guys and come to find out, Excalibur is the only ink Nike uses. . .so I've been told. . .
Homer: I hate to create any negativity, but you should seriously doubt the honesty of anyone who tells you that Excalibur is an exclusive ink supplier to Nike, and/or their network of authorized sub-contract garment screen-printers. I know with absolute certainty of at least one Nike sub-contractor that is using the Excalibur Evolution (PVC-Free) inks on a Nike program, but for Excalibur to claim that they "own" all of the ink business with Nike is not true.
Yeah... They didn’t tell me anything like that either... ;)
Just adds a lil bit of credibility (in my mind) that they are using any at all...!!!
If it is good enough for Nike, it’s good enough for Spot Color Supply!!! ;D
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We did it... Pulled the trigger!!!!
Excalibur Ink should be in some time end of next week or the beginning of the following week!!
We will be offering 50+ standard colors, 3 whites (for now), and a black.
We brought in the 50/50 Plus White, Arctic White, and Miracle White (100% Poly).
A scale is on the way, buckets and lids are on order, and we are picking up the mixer next week. We also ordered 120 ink spatulas with wooden handles... Do I smell a promo coming ;)
Sometime next week the ink category will go live on our site. It is already done; just don’t want any orders before we are ready.
We were talking about putting together sample kits, what do you guys think should be included in the kits? Be reasonable, we are po folks here, and a 5 gallon sample (Brad) is tough.... ;D
Any feedback is appreciated!!
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As I believe that I have mentioned, Lancer would be well served getting wider distribution of their Excaliber inks.
I was impressed with the Black and Arctic White that I got as a bonus when I bought some stuff from now-defunct Aaron in SoCal. I only wish that I had gotten less black, and more white, but was hesitant to take a chance with an unknown, as whites can be so quirky and up to personal taste and demands.
I can only assume and hope that you can also help in the process of ordering Excaliber products that you don't (or won't) normally stock, as they have a full line.
http://www.lancergroup.com/ (http://www.lancergroup.com/)
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I can only assume and hope that you can also help in the process of ordering Excaliber products that you don't (or won't) normally stock, as they have a full line.
[url]http://www.lancergroup.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.lancergroup.com/[/url])
We will be happy to assist in ordering any products that we don’t stock. As our relationship with Lancer develops we should be able to give accurate lead times in these types of products (They come from Canada). This first order is just to get us going; as time goes by we hope to bring in many of their specialty inks and bases.
Ink should be a huge milestone for our company; we will be adding Chemistry (Saati and Easyway), Spray Tack, Pallet Mask, Spot Fluids/Guns, and all of the other odds and ends over the next 6 months. By the middle of next year Spot Color Supply will be a "one stop shop" for printers in the south-east and hopefully nationwide!!
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We did it... Pulled the trigger!!!!
We were talking about putting together sample kits, what do you guys think should be included in the kits? Be reasonable, we are po folks here, and a 5 gallon sample (Brad) is tough.... ;D Any feedback is appreciated!!
Brannon: Congratulations on this next step in developing your business. Youll probably need to decide how valuable my advice is, given that we are going to be competitors for ink sales in the Atlanta Market, but heres some feedback to your question regarding sample kits. Dont do it especially given that youre just starting out. Youre dealing with products from an established North American ink manufacturer, and also with Professional Screen-Printers on this forum. These guys dont need a quart or even a gallon of free product to test it out, and you cant afford to support free five gallon samples.
My advice would be for you to get first-hand experience with how well each specific product or ink series performs on press, and to learn how to optimize the results. Provided you are satisfied with what you see, you should work with your Supplier Manufacturer to provide a 100% money back guarantee to people who purchase the product from you. In the long run this approach will demonstrate yours, and the manufacturers commitment to the quality of the product, far more than tossing out a few freebies to folks as samples to try and scare up some sales.
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I have to say that a small sample pint for manuals, maybe quart for autos of some whites can do a lot to sort out the usefullness of a new ink.
A return of a full gallon (or at least the purchase price) on a guarantee of satisfaction can be a costly process considering the wide range of white characteristics and properties.
A white perfect for one application could really be a poor choice for another.
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I would think the manufacturer would support a sample program, not the distributor. In my daytime job the manufacturer tell us if we need to sample something do it and they will issue a credit mostly with no questions asked some with paperwork needed but maybe its different in the screen printing industry.
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I have to say that a small sample pint for manuals, maybe quart for autos of some whites can do a lot to sort out the usefullness of a new ink.
A return of a full gallon (or at least the purchase price) on a guarantee of satisfaction can be a costly process considering the wide range of white characteristics and properties.
A white perfect for one application could really be a poor choice for another.
Andy: I agree with the tiny samples if you are dealing with a newly developed ink, or where the supplier doesn’t know the correct press settings, screen, and stencil selection to get optimized results. The truth is that the supplier isn’t providing a whole lot of value to the printer, or to their own company if all they are doing is throwing one-pint, or one quart samples against the wall to see what sticks. If the ink is an established product with a record of being successfully used in other shops, the supplier is at little risk of loss, and will be providing the maximum value to their customers if they supply a quality product with instructions on how to use it, and back their product with a money back guarantee.
One other thing about these small volume samples is that there is danger that the product supplied might not always be consistent with the actual production inks supplied on follow-up orders. It’s possible for a couple of things to happen with a small volume sample, that include: The sample might have been poured off a larger volume container that wasn’t fully mixed to disperse the components completely through the ink, or the sample may have been sitting on the shelf for an extended period of time and is no longer as fresh as recently manufactured inks.
In either case it’s possible to get a false positive or a false negative in product performance, which is why I support a program of selling a product with a 100% guarantee backed by the technical support of the supplier and manufacturer.
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We did it... Pulled the trigger!!!!
We were talking about putting together sample kits, what do you guys think should be included in the kits? Be reasonable, we are po folks here, and a 5 gallon sample (Brad) is tough.... ;D Any feedback is appreciated!!
Brannon: Congratulations on this next step in developing your business. You’ll probably need to decide how valuable my advice is, given that we are going to be competitors for ink sales in the Atlanta Market, but here’s some feedback to your question regarding sample kits. “Don’t do it” especially given that you’re just starting out. You’re dealing with products from an established North American ink manufacturer, and also with Professional Screen-Printers on this forum. These guys don’t need a quart or even a gallon of free product to test it out, and you can’t afford to support free five gallon samples.
My advice would be for you to get first-hand experience with how well each specific product or ink series performs on press, and to learn how to optimize the results. Provided you are satisfied with what you see, you should work with your Supplier Manufacturer to provide a 100% money back guarantee to people who purchase the product from you. In the long run this approach will demonstrate yours, and the manufacturers commitment to the quality of the product, far more than tossing out a few freebies to folks as samples to try and scare up some sales.
Good advise Peter.... Unlike some people ( ;)) I feel we can still be friends even tho we are competing for the same market. There is plenty of business for everyone!! You sell M&R, I sell Anatol, You sell Wilflex, I sell Excalibur.... I don’t blame my competitor for beating me... I blame ME!!
Competition doesn’t mean we can’t still be buds ;D
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Competition doesn’t mean we can’t still be buds ;D
Brannon: But you're a Punk and everyone knows that I'm a nice guy, so how's that going to work out? :)
Take care mate, maybe catch you at SGIA New Orleans if you are going.
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Competition doesn’t mean we can’t still be buds ;D
Brannon: But you're a Punk and everyone knows that I'm a nice guy, so how's that going to work out? :)
Take care mate, maybe catch you at SGIA New Orleans if you are going.
Not only a punk... A smart a$$ that doesn’t know when to shut up sometimes ;D
That’s OK, maybe your Nice Guy persona will rub off on me, and I can be respected like U one day :-*
Prolly not SGIA, Anatol has Reece in New Orleans... We are the red headed step child in that area ;)
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Update!!!
Excalibur is in stock!!!
Check out our selection...
http://shop.spotcolorsupply.com/Screen-Printing-Inks_c56.htm (http://shop.spotcolorsupply.com/Screen-Printing-Inks_c56.htm)
50 Standard Colors, 3 Whites, Black, Base, and Pigments ;D
If anyone wants a color card PM me...
Every ink order includes a free ink knife!!
(http://www.waresdirect.com/product/WDI-JR20308-ZM.JPG)
(Not a crappy plastic one either)
TSB members get 10% off of their first Excalibur order....
Use promo code TSB10
Orders placed by 4:00 pm Eastern Time will ship the same day!!
Check out the site; let me know what you guys think???
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You need to look into PrintTop ink as well. They have a Pthalate free and a PVC/Pthatlate free.
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I have tried some of Printops ink and its pretty good but the white needed some reducer. screenprintingsupplies.com is dicontinuing it and I dont know of any other supplier.
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Maybe one day... Gotta get this Excalibur moving first!!
It has been a while since ive delt with a pigment/base system. I was a lil worried about the mess, but the Excalibur pigments are much thicker than the Wilflex pigments!! This makes handling them much easier ;D
We will hopefully have the High Opaque colors on the site soon!!
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Brannon, did you get my email, or are you just ignoring me? ;D
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Brannon, did you get my email, or are you just ignoring me? ;D
I would never ignore you brad ;)
I didnt?? Did you use sales@spotcolorsupply.com....?