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Direct to Garment => DTG - General => Topic started by: Rockers on February 03, 2014, 06:58:12 PM

Title: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 03, 2014, 06:58:12 PM
We might buy a DTG soon and I was wondering what`s good? I had a look at the Brother machines which look solid and don`t cost a fortune and I can buy them here directly of Brother Japan, which is good in terms of service etc. What else is out there that is good apart maybe from Kornit. And how about pre treatment stations, how much do they cost?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Admiral on February 03, 2014, 07:57:08 PM
Viper XPT is good, $5-6k for that pretreatment machine.  Since you are just starting the Viper one might be your choice which I believe is 3k but I can't say about performance of it...not as fast and adjustable as our XPT but it's good I'm sure.

Epson might be worth looking into but if I was you I would go with Brother or Epson.  I just don't know the price of the Epson, ink costs, work flow, etc.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 03, 2014, 08:01:45 PM
We just had an Epson sales rep in here and what they have showed us was not very good to be honest. They are not having many sales don`t offer a pre treatment station etc. So Epson is not for us. We lean towards Brother. Kornit is far too expansive over here.
might get a Brother rep in here or go to their sales office and get a demonstration of the machines they offer.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: abchung on February 03, 2014, 08:32:49 PM
May be you can take a look at these guys, they are from Sydney Australia.
http://www.dtgdigital.com/ (http://www.dtgdigital.com/)
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 03, 2014, 08:55:35 PM
Just found out we can lease the Brother GT-381 for $300/month incl service and repairs if needed , that`s over  a 5 year period.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: ZooCity on February 03, 2014, 10:16:18 PM
I never really thought about a lease option for DTG, like having one of those big color office copiers where they come and take care of all the problems.  Sounds very doable and, if the terms are flexible, low risk.  Anyone who would lease a DTG w. service like that must be building a good machine too. 

Thanks for posting that.  I don't want a DTG, I just don't want to deal with, and commit staff hours and capital to, that client base but I do often feel bad when we can't help them out.  And, as a business owner, I feel kind of dumb sending them to a competing shop with a new brother. This gives me some food for thought.  I imagine it would not be difficult to get a brother on a $300/mo lease turning enough of a profit to keep it around and supplement screen printing.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: TCT on February 03, 2014, 10:37:29 PM
Brother has the best  DTG machine aside from the Kornit out there I think. I don't know much about the new EPSON ones. The Brother ones don't need to be babied as much as the EPSON based DTG machines. You will be good with the Brother.

Pre treatment is a beeeotch! DO NOT buy a Viper One, they suck and are crap. Actually I have one if you want to buy a used one :P  Out of all the "entry level" pre treatment machines out there I think this one has the most going for it-
http://www.equipmentzone.com/speedtreater-tx (http://www.equipmentzone.com/speedtreater-tx)

Now I have not used it, but it seems like it would handle the downfalls and poor concepts of the Viper One fell short on.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 05, 2014, 08:52:27 PM
How about the Anajet printers? Any good?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: TCT on February 05, 2014, 09:42:36 PM
How about the Anajet printers? Any good?

I have heard both good and bad, the bad was from their first series though. I don't know one way or another what kind of print heads they use or the specs on them.

We have a NeoFlex, it is nice and from a "production" stand point I like/liked it. The biggest thing with these things while they are in their infancy is clogged heads. I don't care what type of fancy "recirculation system" you have, the original EPSON print heads were not designed for the type of ink you need for white. Our machine ran well, now it took a minimum of 10min of cleaning and maintenance every morning, but if that doesn't bother you then you should be fine. We haven't used ours in close to a year. It just took the right person to run it the way I wanted it ran. Had to know Photoshop, be VERY good at multi tasking, handle stress well, and be able to react quickly. A lot of that was because I wanted that thing printing non stop. The NeoFlex had 3 platens, so you load 3 prints into the RIP and print. When that first one was done it needed to come off, go to the proper heat press to cure, and another shirt loaded back in it's place. Now repeat that for the other two, and be reddy to hit print on the next 3 when the 3rd print is done.

I now people that have the Brother units, some won't run them for 4 days and they are still good to go. I know another guy that runs about $1mil. worth of Kornits, he likes them because they are workhorses and can actually handle LARGE "production" that I was demanding out of my little one.

Sorry for rattling on, but I guess you can probably make any of them work just how much time do you have to put into making them work?

And unless you have the coin for a Kornit, you will enjoy the wonderful past time of pre treating, which SUCKS!!!
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 06, 2014, 09:11:29 AM
How did I miss this topic?  Here is my take...

Brother...hands down the best.  The machines are simple, designed to be garment printers and don't cost a fortune.  They are also insanely reliable.

Kornit printers are great as well, they are just too much money.

I would like to see what heads Epson is using, because I would NEVER buy a printer with Epson heads out of a 4800 or a standard series inkjet.  They aren't meant to print such heavily pigmented inks and you will have problems...especially with white.

That being said, with dark garments, most of your troubles come from pretreating.  this is the reason we got the Viper XPT, it's easy to control and has settings out the wazoo.

The Viper One is a good option as well...i thought about going this route and later adding the XPT for dark garments and using the One for lights/polyester.  Instead I will add the One later.

All of my new DTG goodies should be here in about a week...I am STOKED!!!!!

I am working on a new pricelist for contract DTG that includes dark garments, let me know and I will get one out to you.  I might wait to send it until I can do a little bit of testing on the numbers once we run it a little bit.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: noortrd on February 06, 2014, 09:22:21 AM
If everybody buy dtg than who buy  m&r challenger like machine?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 06, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
easy...people that like to make money fast. ;)

they are 2 totally separate markets.  I don't want to print 500 shirts with a 12 color print on black on my DTG machine.

on the flip side, people with a huge press don't want to setup a 12 color print for 12 shirts.

each has their place, and they work wonderfully together in my opinion.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: TCT on February 06, 2014, 10:34:58 AM

The Viper One is a good option as well...i thought about going this route and later adding the XPT for dark garments and using the One for lights/polyester.  Instead I will add the One later.



Dude, the ViperOne is junk. Not thought out well. If you don't religiously clean EVERY PART and soak it in hot water EVERY night it gets clogs like a mother! I had one employee that left the pre treatment in the canisters it uses for a 4 day weekend, that stuff ate holes through the canister!!!!! The "all air, no electricity" was just a selling gimmick. There are much better pre treatment systems out there!
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 06, 2014, 10:37:53 AM
what pretreat are you using?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: TCT on February 06, 2014, 11:20:24 AM
We have used like 4 different ones, I can go and look in the boxes and let you know the exact ones. I know one was the one from All American a while ago.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 06, 2014, 11:26:38 AM
that's some seriously nasty stuff to eat through a container.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: TCT on February 06, 2014, 11:41:53 AM
that's some seriously nasty stuff to eat through a container.

The Tech/rep at Viper was not surprised at all. Infact I called to say my container developed holes and first question I got was "do you empty the containers nightly?" Almost like they knew what would happen!
I will get you the names, just all our DTG stuff is in boxes. May be my lunchtime project!
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 06, 2014, 12:22:54 PM
why is all of your DTG stuff in boxes?  Are you hanging it up?

Wanna sell your Viper One?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Inkworks on February 06, 2014, 11:08:27 PM
Just found out we can lease the Brother GT-381 for $300/month incl service and repairs if needed , that`s over  a 5 year period.

Hmmm that's cheap enough to make a guy think........
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 07, 2014, 01:25:40 AM
How did I miss this topic?  Here is my take...

Brother...hands down the best.  The machines are simple, designed to be garment printers and don't cost a fortune.  They are also insanely reliable.

Kornit printers are great as well, they are just too much money.

I would like to see what heads Epson is using, because I would NEVER buy a printer with Epson heads out of a 4800 or a standard series inkjet.  They aren't meant to print such heavily pigmented inks and you will have problems...especially with white.

That being said, with dark garments, most of your troubles come from pretreating.  this is the reason we got the Viper XPT, it's easy to control and has settings out the wazoo.

The Viper One is a good option as well...i thought about going this route and later adding the XPT for dark garments and using the One for lights/polyester.  Instead I will add the One later.

All of my new DTG goodies should be here in about a week...I am STOKED!!!!!

I am working on a new pricelist for contract DTG that includes dark garments, let me know and I will get one out to you.  I might wait to send it until I can do a little bit of testing on the numbers once we run it a little bit.

I will go in a couple of weeks to have a look at the Epson printer. They did indeed build a printhead that is made for DTG printing, so no 4800 print head in that machine. What I like about the Eposn is the low price and the fact it prints 16"x20" images.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 07, 2014, 06:59:50 AM
I figured Epson didn't re-purpose a head...but if anybody remembers the Fast T-jet, that's all that thing was...along with a bunch of other printers.

brother was running a 0% for 36 months and I think...and I stress I think you could trade in another brand DTG machine and get $5000 off the Brother.

The deal ended, but I am sure they will bring it back or run it at shows....it helped push a lot of deals...their credit department can be tough, so make sure you state your case.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Inkworks on February 07, 2014, 11:11:29 AM
I've heard that the Epson is a little underwhelming at this time.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: cbjamel on February 07, 2014, 11:14:20 AM
Just found out we can lease the Brother GT-381 for $300/month incl service and repairs if needed , that`s over  a 5 year period.
Be sure that is a 381, I say this in add from brother - GT-3 Series advertised starting monthly payment of $417 plus tax and extras is GT-341 machine only (MSRP of $19,999) . For the 381 I think 500 plus.

So check.
Shane
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: noortrd on February 07, 2014, 11:37:40 AM
Any good chinese printer.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Frog on February 07, 2014, 11:59:36 AM
Any good chinese printer.

I assume that that is a question missing punctuation rather than a suggestion to the OP
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 07, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
Just found out we can lease the Brother GT-381 for $300/month incl service and repairs if needed , that`s over  a 5 year period.
Be sure that is a 381, I say this in add from brother - GT-3 Series advertised starting monthly payment of $417 plus tax and extras is GT-341 machine only (MSRP of $19,999) . For the 381 I think 500 plus.

So check.
Shane
Yes I saw that offer too but it`s only valid within the US, we are based in Japan. But I just got a quote of one of the many businesses that sale and lease Brother and Epson DTG here. GT-381 we can lease for $400/ month the Epson for around $300. If the Brother would just offer a bigger print area, but like this I`m leaning towards the Epson. There is another japanese DTG called Mastermind, their products seem to be very good too and are priced inbetween the other two brands. Needless to say DTG is big in JAPAN. As for pre treatment we are thinking of getting the Lawson pre treatment station, would that be a good purchase?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: mk162 on February 07, 2014, 07:33:25 PM
the brother prints up to 16x18 on an optional platen, not a bad print size.

mastermind is the company that made the original t-jet...i would see if they moved away from the Epson Stylus heads before I put any money down on one.

Brother originally recommended the Lawson, they no longer do.  I would got Viper XPT...i've heard nothing but good things about it...the Viper One probably isn't the way to go.
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 07, 2014, 07:47:18 PM


Brother originally recommended the Lawson, they no longer do.  I would got Viper XPT...i've heard nothing but good things about it...the Viper One probably isn't the way to go.
What`s the price of the Viper XPT?
Title: Re: DTG- what`s hot what`s not?
Post by: Rockers on February 07, 2014, 07:58:31 PM
just found the price. $7000