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Computers and Software => Computers and Software - General => Topic started by: Shawn (EIP) on August 03, 2011, 08:20:03 PM
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I think I'm finally going to thrown down some cash to purchase a separation program for 4 color process and simulated process. I'm pretty good at the spot color stuff... but I want to move into some higher end printing. Any recomendations? I work in photoshop.
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yes, Dot Tone Dan.
works better than any software you can afford, you charge the customers for the seps and mark it up so you get a better product and making more money!
You'll also learn a lot more and become a better printer doing that way. Automated software will not tell you what you are doing wrong if you are having issues.
pierre
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Pierrre's got a point. I know where you're coming from. It's your shop and you want to know how to run all parts so to save money and be more efficient. truthfully, it is as Pierre says. You can start getting high quality seps done right and non hassle to you while you focus on your business. At the same time, you can purchase one of those sep programs and examine/toy with it till you get to know what your doing. It's also as Pierre says. You really get better help with sending your seps out.
I will end it here before making another article out of it.
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dude - these guys a re right, all you need is Dan and photoshop. don't waste your time with the seps in a box stuff. I learned more from the few seps Dan and Pierre have sent me than the programs. hell, even you-tube has vids on getting started. save the coin, invest it in something else.
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yes, Dot Tone Dan.
works better than any software you can afford, you charge the customers for the seps and mark it up so you get a better product and making more money!
You'll also learn a lot more and become a better printer doing that way. Automated software will not tell you what you are doing wrong if you are having issues.
pierre
Is there any way to bootleg Dot Tone Dan software. :)
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yes, Dot Tone Dan.
works better than any software you can afford, you charge the customers for the seps and mark it up so you get a better product and making more money!
You'll also learn a lot more and become a better printer doing that way. Automated software will not tell you what you are doing wrong if you are having issues.
pierre
Is there any way to bootleg Dot Tone Dan software. :)
you would know....
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Just to play the devil's advocate here, come on all you Fast Films and Quick Seps users, report in!
Tom P, I know that you like your new(ish) Quick Seps.
Sorry Dan ;D
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We really like separation studio
http://www.softwareforscreenprinters.com/separation-studio (http://www.softwareforscreenprinters.com/separation-studio)
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The rub with QuikSeps Pro or any of the other programs is, by nature, the program has to engage all situations thrown at it with a fixed set of Pantone colors, so the results will always be the best possible set of seps that the program can calculate based on that fixed set of colors. My own experience is that I've always gone into the channels and made subsequent adjustments to suit myself based on what I saw on my screen. There've been a few instances in which I've had to go in, make a channel change, and run a new piece of film for that separation. In the case of simulated process, you can change the Pantone color and see the results, just as you can with any spot color job in Photoshop, so in that sense you're not strictly limited, but the change will ripple throughout the job if you're just trying to fine-tune one particular area of a dominant color. Depending upon how facile you are with adjusting curves or using the "apply image" feature to the channels, there's quite a bit of fine tuning you can do. Ultimately, it really depends on how much time you're willing to spend mucking about with the file once it's been generated to adjust any shortcomings you perceive.
As for process color, I haven't run that much, and even in that situation I was inclined to adjust curves just a bit. Preston used it a lot and he said he never changed anything, including the white plate, and he printed the entire job wet-on-wet. How close his results were to the original art, I don't know, but he always was happy with the results.
I generally like the program, but recognize it's limitations. I'm also one who will spend an inordinate amount of time screwing around with stuff that sometimes results in some lessons learned, and sometimes results in time wasted. Sometimes the wasted time is the lesson learned (at least until the next time). Using it has expanded my comfort level in working in Photoshop at the channels level, so there is something to be said about that. I will say this: if I took an average job and ran it through QuikSeps with my usual tweaking, and I handed the same job to Dan, and printed both jobs, I would expect Dan's work would look better if for no other reason that he generated a custom palette based on that particular job, coupled with his experience at doing this at the professional level for years. Judging by the comments from those who use his services and the pictures posted on this and other forums, the files he generates are pretty much "plug and play" with great results. As to whether to buy a program, or to use Dan, I guess it depends on how much of your own time you're willing to invest in fine tuning jobs, and whether or not you can bill that time to your client if it runs into hours. It also depends on your familiarity with Photoshop, and how satisfied you will be with the results the program yields. Finally, it depends upon how critical a match to the original needs to be. I don't know of anyone who uses this or any of the other programs that doesn't make changes to the generated files. Your press limitations will also play a part. I've got an 8-color press which helps. The program will knock a job back to fewer colors, but there again, it's doing so with a fixed palette and that has got to have an effect. When Dan does a job your hardware situation will play a part in his calculations from the get-go. This isn't to trash Steve's skill at creating QuikSeps Pro, or the developers of other similar programs, but their set of actions and the palette they choose are calculated as something of a "one-size-fits-all" because it has to. Dan's are calculated on the particular job at hand. It's comparing apples to oranges, truthfully. It's a bit like comparing "auto-trace" to redrawing by hand a file that needs to be vector.
I've also tried doing simulated and index seps from scratch, and in spite of the YouTube videos and magazine articles, I've never gotten anything I could use.
As for my remarks regarding Dan's processes, they're based entirely on posts he and his customers have made on these forums. Ask Pierre for the details. My remarks on QuikSeps are likewise based on my experience, and bear in mind that I'm one prone to "fixing" things, sometimes whether they need them or not.
Okay, I'm now turning off my "Bill Hood Makes A Short Story Long" mode, likely leaving you more confused than you were when I started. As Maxwell Smart would say, "Sorry about that, Chief."
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Short answer is.......depends on what your expectations are.
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I have both, I use quikseps for the simple stuff because it has a lot of useful actions that make sepping easier. I can pretty much look at a design and in 3 seconds know if I can do it, or if it's going to dan.
Here's the skinny...the seps I get from dan, I know will work the first time. The amount of time that saves me in redoing art, screens and setting the job back up is worth the $80 or whatever I pay, but then I pass it along to the customer with a small markup and I am set.
I actually have dan drawing and sepping a job for me right now that is going to be around $400. And you know what, I won't lose sleep worrying if I will be able to do it or not.
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We really like separation studio
[url]http://www.softwareforscreenprinters.com/separation-studio[/url] ([url]http://www.softwareforscreenprinters.com/separation-studio[/url])
I have to agree. We use it often and the results have been great.
Ive also used Dan, and hes great too.
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Good advice all around. If you want to learn how to do it yourself, there are plenty of tutorials out there that will help get to know the tools so you can develop your own insight and techniques. Do you have that much time? We do our own work here, but when my artist was out awhile ago, Dan helped us get the job out in time, on budget, and no changes or remaking screens. I've had him look at some others too, though my customers didn't go that way in the end, I would have had him do it while our staff could put out more of the simple jobs when we're swamped. So, yeah, learn it for your own curiosity and edification, but let Dan do your seps and get printin'...
Steve
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With regards to tuts look around for the book "Photoshop for Screenprinters" might be out of print but used ones show up occaisionally.
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Just to play the devil's advocate here, come on all you Fast Films and Quick Seps users, report in!
Tom P, I know that you like your new(ish) Quick Seps.
Sorry Dan ;D
What is this, "Good cop/Bad cop" ? Ha!
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With regards to tuts look around for the book "Photoshop for Screenprinters" might be out of print but used ones show up occaisionally.
I've got a copy of that book, but to paraphrase our esteemed House Minority Leader, "You've got to read it to find out what's in it."
Therein lies the rub. :P
As I said, I've read tuts and articles (and this book a little) but getting really good stuff will take a practiced hand, and most books or articles will state that getting good takes time, patience, and persistence. Not as easy as it's sometimes portrayed, much like screenprinting itself.
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@ tpitman
Never apologies for along lost. Thats a lot of free and good information. It didn't cost anyone anything extra. Very good info and I encourage others to make as long of a post that they feel needed to get the message across. Maybe not 3 pages. HA! If so, we can look at it for a potential article. ")
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@ tpitman
Never apologies for along lost. Thats a lot of free and good information. It didn't cost anyone anything extra. Very good info and I encourage others to make as long of a post that they feel needed to get the message across. Maybe not 3 pages. HA! If so, we can look at it for a potential article. ")
Blame Andy. He's seen enough of my "monologues" by now that he probably was wishing he hadn't hit the "post" button after typing his suggestion for a review. Considering his reasoning for the request, though, he can say the "devil" made him do it.
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I think I'm back to where I started lol! The main reason why I never bought a program, not sure if im throwing away money or not...
Typically I'll wait until I need something 3 times before I purchase it, borrow it from another shop first and second time ;D. Too bad it doesn't work that way with software though... Which another questions comes to mind. If I were to buy Quikseps or Easyart how many DL's do I get? Thinking about splitting the cost with another shop.
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You're given a number with QuikSeps Pro. I can't remember if I had to register it to use it. No dongles. Works on Macs and PeeCees (it's a set of Photoshop actions).
Why don't you try the free trials? Make up a few quick jobs between smokes and run 'em out, slap 'em on your press and see what you think?
I bought the original QuikSeps off eBay for $150 when Steve was getting going. Steve made the upgrade to QuikSeps Pro fairly generous in terms of cost, so I bit. This upcoming version might not find me so eager. One thing I wish I knew how to do is stochastic 4-color process, and I'd mentioned this to him in a thread when he was asking for suggestions for the next version. If the new version had that, and the upgrade cost was reasonable, I might bite, but otherwise I probably won't. From what I'd seen an upgrade won't be cheap, and while I can see spending it on the Adobe Suite, I'm not so sure about a program which might be minimally different from the version I have and is very narrowly focused.
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What? no mention of Wilflex easy art?
Pretty much they are all just recorded action in Photoshop you can create yourself.... With the exception of Separation studio, freehand graphs at the link above softwareforscreenprinters.com which is a stand a lone program.
I'f go with Dot tone Dan, But I think it quit working on the Mac platform :-P
really Like tpitman said, it's usuing a set applied rulles that just can wotk on every image... even the best ones need to be adjusted, and if you know enough to do that you know enough to just sep them or record your own actions.
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really Like tpitman said, it's usuing a set applied rulles that just can wotk on every image... even the best ones need to be adjusted, and if you know enough to do that you know enough to just sep them or record your own actions.
You obviously haven't seen the ones I've tried doing from scratch. It wasn't pretty. :P
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I have not had the pleasure of Dan seping one for me yet but not to knock his price or his talent.( because that is undisputed )...But for my seps in my little town I use QS's and I really like Simple Seps from Advanced Artist along with several of his programs. He is a Corel guy and for my business 90% of the time that is what I use. So I guess I am saying it is according to your customer needs. I saw one of P's shirts he did from Dan's seps and it was amazing the detail but then again that is P's needs.... So Ya got a choice I guess. Good Luck
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I bought a copy of QuickSeps about 8 months ago. I honestly haven't had a chance to mess around with it. I have used Steve (Sbrem) to sep a job for me and had someone else do a redraw for me a couple of times on some really crappy jpgs that illustrtator trace could not help. I would like to learn how to utilize quickseps and see what it's realistic "quick" abilities are. I think that no matter what, you will be better off with someone who knows their stuff doing the high end stuff. I plan to try out Dan at some point as well (most of my jobs are basic and don't require much). I met Pierre in AC this year and from the stuff he was telling me about working with Dan it really sounds like it can help to up your game.
I don't think quickseps allows a free trial, but T-Seps does. http://t-biznetwork.com/t-seps/nsp/ (http://t-biznetwork.com/t-seps/nsp/) They are both a lot alike. I don't off hand remember why I chose quickseps over t-seps. I think it may have been on sale, But either way, sample it and see if you feel like it would be a worthwile addition for you.