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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Screened Gear on February 13, 2014, 02:08:41 PM
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So I am a one man shop. I honestly hate cleaning screens. I wait until the last min to do them. I am frustrated and my moral is always down when I don't have screens coated and ready to go. I honestly don't even like taking on jobs when I have no screens ready. (yes I am burned out) This week a made a deal with the girl that used to work for me. She is now cleaning my screens for $1.5 each manual and autos. I will have all the ink Squeegeed out and waiting for her. Then she will clean and degrease them. So then I just have to coat them.
Is this a good deal?
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Encourages faster and possibly sloppy work. Might be illegal. And from her view, would you want to come in
to clean ten screens and make a cool $15? Probably not worth the gas. Unless you have a bunch ready to clean always....
I'd go hourly wage and hire someone to come in, maybe after hours.
At $12/hr that's 8 screens an hour. She can hopefully do more than that,
and you'd be paying more than that if you do it by the piece.
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The young man I have come in at times, I pay a flat rate of $3 per screen.
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Encourages faster and possibly sloppy work. Might be illegal. And from her view, would you want to come in
to clean ten screens and make a cool $15? Probably not worth the gas. Unless you have a bunch ready to clean always....
I'd go hourly wage and hire someone to come in, maybe after hours.
At $12/hr that's 8 screens an hour. She can hopefully do more than that,
and you'd be paying more than that if you do it by the piece.
I have about 100 screens so when there is about 50 she comes in. Maybe 2 or 3 times a month depending on jobs. She has worked for me before and does good work. If they are not clean they get kicked back into the need to be cleaned pile (no pay until they are clean, she said this) She used to clean 12 to 18 screens an hour. She even said she would clean the ink out if they needed it for the $1.5 each. She came in last night and did 25 in about 2 hours. She was a little rusty but she likes doing them. The screens are perfect.
I am just wondering if this is a good way to go. I know she can clean up to 18 an hour so $27 an hour. I don't care about what she makes an hour as long as I have clean screens. I am fine paying $1.5 per screen. I think that is fair.
What do others think?
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On that side it's certainly fair. I just think a lot of employers abuse piece work. Hell, out here in CA we have to take a test
because of that stuff.
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I'm also a one man shop and used to devote almost a whole day each week to reclaiming and recoating etc. It was a giant pain in the ass, and I only have about 50 screens total, and go through maybe 30 a week during normal weeks. I recently got a dip tank and it has made the whole process of reclaiming take less than 2 hours for all of my screens and I'm not even close to tired at the end of that since there is barely any scrubbing. I have started getting in the habit of reclaiming immediately after a job and just card off ink on press, take to my trash can and take off the tape, and drop in the tank. Then I go do something else for a few minutes, come back and pressure wash off. The whole cleanup process takes maybe 20 minutes for a 6 color job and I can be doing other things for a lot of that. I was kicking myself for not having gotten it sooner...
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I'm also a one man shop and used to devote almost a whole day each week to reclaiming and recoating etc. It was a giant pain in the ass, and I only have about 50 screens total, and go through maybe 30 a week during normal weeks. I recently got a dip tank and it has made the whole process of reclaiming take less than 2 hours for all of my screens and I'm not even close to tired at the end of that since there is barely any scrubbing. I have started getting in the habit of reclaiming immediately after a job and just card off ink on press, take to my trash can and take off the tape, and drop in the tank. Then I go do something else for a few minutes, come back and pressure wash off. The whole cleanup process takes maybe 20 minutes for a 6 color job and I can be doing other things for a lot of that. I was kicking myself for not having gotten it sooner...
I have a dip tank and stopped using it. I am faster with out it. When I am really humping I can do 20 to 25 screens an hour. With the dip tank I felt like I was waiting too long on the tank to do its thing. It is easier on you with a dip tank but with the right chemicals its faster with a spray bottle. That and the chemicals in the dip tank cost me about twice what it cost per screen to do it with a spray bottle. By the way I have a CCI D2 dip tank for sale...
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I think it's a great deal, $1.50 a screen is easily made up in an order. If there's concerns about it being illegal tell her to bring in a scrub brush and give her a 1099.
Roger
RT screen designs
Www.rtscreendesigns. Com
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I think it's a great deal, $1.50 a screen is easily made up in an order. If there's concerns about it being illegal tell her to bring in a scrub brush and give her a 1099.
Roger
RT screen designs
[url=http://Www.rtscreendesigns]Www.rtscreendesigns[/url] ([url]http://Www.rtscreendesigns[/url]). Com
She will be 1099ed. If I worked a 40 hour a week job. I would do it also. Clean screens for a couple hours a week and make an extra $200 a month. I think its a win-win. The only problem is you have to find the right person.
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One man shop here. I have a high school girl come in and clean screens and pay her $2.50 per screen. That way she can work as fast or slow as she wants to. She does a great job. I have had a few high school boys do them in the past and paid by the hour. I prefer the pay by screen method.
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Call me ignorant, but wouldn't using your pressure washer, sink, chemicals, etc void the 1099?
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Call me ignorant, but wouldn't using your pressure washer, sink, chemicals, etc void the 1099?
I am not totally sure. Time to call the accountant. I have worked on a 1099 for a few companies in the past using their computers.
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$2.5 or $3 a screen? Is that not a ton of money. I thought $1.5 each was being nice.
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We pay our reclaimer $15 bucks an hour, he usually rocks out around 12 screens an hour, doing the full deal himself, and his final screens are perfect. Worth it to us to have him come in, usually comes in at night or on weekends to keep us stocked with screens.
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$2.5 or $3 a screen? Is that not a ton of money. I thought $1.5 each was being nice.
The kid I use is 14, averages 6 screens an hour, 8 if he's really grooving. If he was doing 20+ an hour, I'd rethink what I pay per.
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a while back i did the math on removing the panels in my panelframes vs reclaim...I was really leaning towards just tossing the screens out after use but I had a hard time with the numbers...might be worth it to look into into wooden frames, no reclaim at all...one time use frame.... i think you use statics, right?
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I'm also a one man shop and used to devote almost a whole day each week to reclaiming and recoating etc. It was a giant pain in the ass, and I only have about 50 screens total, and go through maybe 30 a week during normal weeks. I recently got a dip tank and it has made the whole process of reclaiming take less than 2 hours for all of my screens and I'm not even close to tired at the end of that since there is barely any scrubbing. I have started getting in the habit of reclaiming immediately after a job and just card off ink on press, take to my trash can and take off the tape, and drop in the tank. Then I go do something else for a few minutes, come back and pressure wash off. The whole cleanup process takes maybe 20 minutes for a 6 color job and I can be doing other things for a lot of that. I was kicking myself for not having gotten it sooner...
I have a dip tank and stopped using it. I am faster with out it. When I am really humping I can do 20 to 25 screens an hour. With the dip tank I felt like I was waiting too long on the tank to do its thing. It is easier on you with a dip tank but with the right chemicals its faster with a spray bottle. That and the chemicals in the dip tank cost me about twice what it cost per screen to do it with a spray bottle. By the way I have a CCI D2 dip tank for sale...
There is no way I could be faster without the dip tank than with it. My tank holds 10 screens. It takes me maybe 30 seconds to put 10 screens in, then I get to do something else for 5 minutes, like carding off ink and taking tape off another 10 screens, then it takes 30 seconds or so per screen to pressure wash and quickly scrub with 701 and rack for drying. When I was cleaning them by hand, it was a good 30 seconds of scrubbing for ink, then rinse, then 30 seconds for emulsion (at best), then pressure wash, then degrease, then rack. That would be over 2 minutes a screen constantly working as the fastest possible. If I got to say a 2/2 110 mesh that had been used for poly white, forget about trying to get the emulsion off with one quick spray and scrub, and same for the ink. The emulsion remover just can't penetrate a thick stencil like that with one pass. with the tank, my screens are literally the cleanest they've been and something like a 2/2 110 poly white takes the same 10 seconds of pressure washing and 20 second dehaze/degrease as any other screens. Same goes for hardened discharge screens etc.
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mimosatexas,
You maybe right for your shop. I just know what things are like here. I don't even have a 110 screen in the shop. The lowest screen I have is a 122. I also coat 2/1 with the sharp side. All screens are squeegeed of all ink when ink is taken out. I don't do any "scrubbing". I have the square brushes with the handle everyone uses. It usually takes 2 sprays of ink remover (CCI GR-70) and then I brush the remover around to make sure it gets everywhere (not scrubbing just moving it around real fast). Then set it aside and move on to the next screen while that one sits. I do this for 4 screens. 2 on each side of the washout booth. Then pressure wash off all the ink both sides. Apply emulsion remover the same way working all 4 screens. Then pressure wash off all the emulsion and one more time with ink remover (CCI GR-70) to take out any stains or left over ink. Then set out side the booth until its time to decrease. This whole process is fast and when you get it down there is no down time. I do 20 to 25 screens this way in an hour. My screens look brand new. The reason I stopped using the tank was it took too long for the chemical to do its thing and messed with my flow so much that I was wasting time messing with other things and some times so destructed that I forgot about them. I am easily detracted and frustrated when things are not working the way they should. This is one of those things that you find what works for your shop. Trust me I know everyone raves about dip tanks. It was just not as good as I expected.
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I might have to do something like this for our screens. Right now we are falling behind in the screen department. The more screens we do, the more we print, the more we print, the less time we have to take care of the screens. It's a viscous cycle and on a good money-making day the guys have the auto spinning 6-7 hours of the day and it leaves very little time to clean screens when you add in prepping the jobs and taping up screens and all the other ancillary crap that comes along with this thing we do. I don't want to hire another part timer or full timer when we don't need someone here that long, just long enough to clean 25-30 screens per day. I'm leaning $1.50-2.00 per screen.
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Our approach is cross training and multitasking. Soon as a job is complete the dryer ops assist in teardown/setup and the unloaders go to the screen department to perform various tasks including cleaning and reclaiming. Plus I have two people in one hour early each day to get a good jump on the day. The goal is to never, ever, to have the prepress hold production hostage. Our magnet board ties into our management software and it has a simple but clever color coding system that tracks all the parts and pieces of production that facilitates scheduling and staging.
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I hate cleaning screens as well but...
To bring someone in just to clean screens...pay them cash (if that's the SOP)...is IMHO risky at best.
1 - Cash or not; technically they are not a 1099-MISC payee (unless of course they have a biz license, offer their service to multiple shops doing the same service, set their schedule, and have insurance).
2 - If this is not the case...THEY ARE EMPLOYEES....and would be considered so by any 'auditing type jurisdiction'.
3 - What if...the 'school kid' screen cleaner...get hurt?.....slips, falls...cuts them self some how...etc etc. You may offer to pay med. bill but that has the potential to open a 'can o worms' in the litigious society in which we live.
Just points to ponder...been through audits with accounting clients in another life, another galaxy far far way. ;)
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I hate cleaning screens as well but...
To bring someone in just to clean screens...pay them cash (if that's the SOP)...is IMHO risky at best.
1 - Cash or not; technically they are not a 1099-MISC payee (unless of course they have a biz license, offer their service to multiple shops doing the same service, set their schedule, and have insurance).
2 - If this is not the case...THEY ARE EMPLOYEES....and would be considered so by any 'auditing type jurisdiction'.
3 - What if...the 'school kid' screen cleaner...get hurt?.....slips, falls...cuts them self some how...etc etc. You may offer to pay med. bill but that has the potential to open a 'can o worms' in the litigious society in which we live.
Just points to ponder...been through audits with accounting clients in another life, another galaxy far far way. ;)
Wait, wait, wait, wait.. I never said this was a under the table cash deal. This is legit. I am not trying to mess with the system. I haven't called my accountant yet. This is not 100% in play yet. Thanks for the heads up but it will be legit or it will not happen.
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I hate cleaning screens as well but...
To bring someone in just to clean screens...pay them cash (if that's the SOP)...is IMHO risky at best.
1 - Cash or not; technically they are not a 1099-MISC payee (unless of course they have a biz license, offer their service to multiple shops doing the same service, set their schedule, and have insurance).
2 - If this is not the case...THEY ARE EMPLOYEES....and would be considered so by any 'auditing type jurisdiction'.
3 - What if...the 'school kid' screen cleaner...get hurt?.....slips, falls...cuts them self some how...etc etc. You may offer to pay med. bill but that has the potential to open a 'can o worms' in the litigious society in which we live.
Just points to ponder...been through audits with accounting clients in another life, another galaxy far far way. ;)
Wait, wait, wait, wait.. I never said this was a under the table cash deal. This is legit. I am not trying to mess with the system. I haven't called my accountant yet. This is not 100% in play yet. Thanks for the heads up but it will be legit or it will not happen.
I would never suggest you'd do anything that wasn't legit...just pointing out some potential pitfalls. A conversation with your accountant would definitely be wise. :)
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We're going through a lot of screens right now. I do have one full timer doing them. I also have five others and myself that can and will do them. When my screen guy goes to break or lunch, one of us jumps in. We still cant keep up. I hate to do it, but I'm in the process of adding another reclaim station and bringing in a part timer. At least we will have equipment redundancy in this area now. And if one of the guys is sick, I'm not up reclaim creek without a paddle. I also figure thew part timer can make new screens for me too.
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If you don't like cleaning screens, what the hell are you a screen printer for, LOL? It's kinda like, I don't like washing dishes, but I hate paper plates. Make it a habit to do it more often, so it doesn't build up. Seriously, though I don't do it much anymore, I'm still faster than most of my help. But for me to clean screens at this point is kind of stupid, I should be doing something only an owner can do. It's just part of the job, man...
Steve
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Am i the only one who sees the irony in this thread..
SCREEN printers complaining about doing SCREEN work.
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It's like a chef not wanting to do dishes. You think a chef in a restaurant ever touches a dirty dish.
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Am i the only one who sees the irony in this thread..
SCREEN printers complaining about doing SCREEN work.
The greater irony is not wanting to "cheat" the system to keep things "legit" when "the system" pays you no such favor. I've always wondered if it's categorically possible to "steal" back the very thing the thief stole from you first. I would think non-legit actions would presuppose a legitimate system. Having said that, I need to go so I can go remit my monthly sales tax due next week.
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Where is that Sonny, I thought he was working on some screen cleaning machine that was going to ease this burden that we all truly look forward to.
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mimosatexas,
It usually takes 2 sprays of ink remover (CCI GR-70) and then I brush the remover around to make sure it gets everywhere (not scrubbing just moving it around real fast). Then set it aside and move on to the next screen while that one sits. I do this for 4 screens. 2 on each side of the washout booth. Then pressure wash off all the ink both sides. Apply emulsion remover the same way working all 4 screens. Then pressure wash off all the emulsion and one more time with ink remover (CCI GR-70) to take out any stains or left over ink. Then set out side the booth until its time to decrease.
May I take a moment to describe my methods? I'm no longer a press op. All I do is pre-press and maintenance, so streamlining the process is paramount to my job performance. I'm at the sink or exposure unit all day prepping screens for a 2-auto shop - no time to waste.
Here's the steps, and I will say from the get go my screens are immaculate. Sterile even.
1) Peel tape and re-stack near the sink
2) Scrape any/all excess ink from screens the press ops may have missed. I keep a Hyde 4" taping knife in the Safety Kleen tank just for this.
3) Four screens in the emulsion remover dip tank. We use the 37 gal ones from Easiway, with a 5:1 solution of Easistrip Supra. This works best for us. Other solutions may work better for other emulsions or ink systems. We use Ulano QTX and QT Discharge, and mostly plastisols. If it takes longer than 5 minutes to break down a stencil, it's not the right tank solution.
4) Find something to do for 5-10 minutes. (sweep, burn screens, drink coffee, harass boss about getting shiny new equipment, etc)
5) Pull one softened screen out from the side of the tank nearest to the sink. Add one additional dirty screen in the back.
6) Pressure wash stencil out from the print side.
7) Apply 701 to both sides of screen and frame, scrubbing with a gong brush (pads suck with 701, they disintegrate)
8) Immediately pressure wash stains out, starting with squeegee side, ending with print side. Make sure to wash frame too.
9) If any ghosting is left, lightly apply 701 one more time just to image area and immediately wash out. 701 works weird this way, if it's heavy ink stains it comes out in "layers" so to speak. Never leave it on long, it can actually set the stain. Scrub it on and blast it out and the screen will be spotless.
10) Flood rinse both sides and rack to dry.
11) Repeat steps 5 through 10.
That's it. It's VERY fast and the screens get VERY clean. Skip the de-greasing stage. I rarely degrease and only on finer mesh screens, (like 195 or higher) and only if the water doesn't sheet off them smoothly.
The most important thing is finding the right dip tank solution and dilution ratio for your needs. The stencils should be very soft if not falling out of the mesh when you remove the screen.
I can do 15-20 screens an hour and they coat smooth and are pinhole and fish-eye free. (unless they are the EZ frames I've been having issues with, but that's another thread)
On the other end of things, we have a second tank for development, which shaves off a ton of time when burning multiple screens and saves countless gallons of water. That too is another thread.
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BTW - this is a gong brush.
(http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/071798/071798002279lg.jpg)
Pads are great but they break down in haze remover and can leave plastic fibers sticking in the coarser meshes. Gong brush solves it all. You can leave it dunked in the bucket of haze remover for a week and no issues. I always go back to them.
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Evo,
You replied to another thread with a less detailed version of those steps and I have started following them, and it is working very, very well! I just wanted to thank you.
I have a 47 gallon rhinotec diptank that holds 10 23x31 static screens and I am using one 5 gallon of Supra, and no matter what screen I have thrown in there so far the stencil is almost falling off the mesh at 5 minutes. I card off as much ink as possible without spending too much time being OCD about it, and while the supra doesnt really eat off the ink, it does make it easy to just pressure wash off the screen. Then scrub 701 on both sides quickly and around the frame if necessary and pressure wash. Then rinse, rack, and done. My screens have literally never been cleaner, and with savings on chemicals, effort, and time.
I use $0.99 scrub pads with handles from walmart and toss once every week or two when they get gross, but I will look into the gong brush. I havent had any issues with the pads breaking down, but I'm all for a more permanent solution.
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BTW - this is a gong brush.
Pads are great but they break down in haze remover and can leave plastic fibers sticking in the coarser meshes. Gong brush solves it all. You can leave it dunked in the bucket of haze remover for a week and no issues. I always go back to them.
Use these and you'll never again use those scrubby pads. Stopped in a shop I worked in years ago and the same two brushes I got back then are still in use today. Yes they do last that long.
I'm always on the lookout for these brushes. Hard to find ones that have a softer bristle. They are usually stiff bristled.
Anyone have a lead on some?
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BTW - this is a gong brush.
([url]http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/071798/071798002279lg.jpg[/url])
Pads are great but they break down in haze remover and can leave plastic fibers sticking in the coarser meshes. Gong brush solves it all. You can leave it dunked in the bucket of haze remover for a week and no issues. I always go back to them.
I think that more than one reader thought that when a drummer talks about using a "Gong Brush", he has re-purposed something from his drum kit!
That's one of those things that we all have used, but few have known the specific name.
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Anyone have a lead on some?
Home Depot had some that were actually pretty soft. $4.00 each.
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I used to get them from HD but the ones they have now are stiff bristle. I'm looking for the really soft bristle, found some on Zoro tools.
10" Soft Bristle Gong Brush (http://www.zorotools.com/g/00059066/k-G2899172?srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=26-302733925-2&utm_source=channel_intelligence&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=shopzilla)