TSB
screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: ZooCity on February 14, 2014, 04:35:06 PM
-
I like the idea of "just keep moving" when I'm operating. My printer thinks you should never be sending empty platens around. I agree on both sides I suppose but wonder if others find this feature key to fast production and perhaps something is being overlooked by us here.
We're actually going to sell our no shirt detector, we don't use the feature, so this came up in my mind.
-
Operator uses the skip button for misloads.
-
You can use that if your machine has it my 97 Gauntlet doesn't so I use the optic shirt detector. Doesn't print board when no shirt on.
Shane
-
If I had one on my press I'm sure I would use it, especially if you are running at some sort of pace. If you are going slow enough no need. I do use my foot pedal to "pause" when I need to, but nothing that actually will allow me to skip the pallet as we go
-
If in auto mode and it looks like the shirt won't be loaded in time we hit the footpedal to stop indexing, load the shirt and then resume auto mode
-
I don't think we would use a sensor of any kind. I have never used one, and I can't see why one would be necessary(good chance that is my ignorance shining through) seems like it would only benefit a lazy loader. We do however use our foot pedal 100% of the time. Our pedal is set up as a "break" so if your dwell is 1 second but the shirt gets hung up on a corner, as long as you are standing on that pedal it won't advance, step off the pedal and it picks up where you left off. At first I hated that, I was used to using a pedal as a next or advance trigger. Now if you tried to change it, we would have words. When someone is learning to load I just make sure that the one foot that is not the "pivot" foot always uses the pedal when loading. After loading and you turn to pick up the next shirt your for comes off it when you turn(hope that makes sense). This way it is second nature to step on the pedal, even if you have a say 10 second delay and it is not needed.
Suppose that is a bit different but that is how we roll at our place!
@Ryan email S.Roque and ask for a modified program. I just installed mine and I have "cancel pallet" on the main screen now...
Now a "no ink" sensor for the far side of the press would be a hot idea!!!
-
no pedals or detectors needed here, if your experienced you don't need it. I do have the detector on my CH3D ONLY because it comes standard with the machine. I could take it or leave it.
-
no pedals or detectors needed here, if your experienced you don't need it. I do have the detector on my CH3D ONLY because it comes standard with the machine. I could take it or leave it.
there are multiple reasons for a shirt detector. Ask shops that run at high speeds. Also when training a new employee you can skip every other pallet until they get used to the machine. Teach them on a press that is indexing faster and they will run faster once trained. You can also walk away from the machine while it is still indexing after you put the last shirt on and do something else productive while the unloader is finishing removing the shirts. The machine will count the empty pallets and stop when the last shirt is removed. The operator can also follow the first empty pallet around the press to half way checking ink in the screens as they flood. When the unloader starts to see empty pallets they can follow the first shirt around and watch the floods until the first shirt reaches the unload station. Or they can take the pallets that show up empty from the operator when they were able to walk away and move up a new stack of shirts and tack them. There are many more but typist is not one of my better traits.
-
Also when training a new employee you can skip every other pallet until they get used to the machine. Teach them on a press that is indexing faster and they will run faster once trained.
I have to disagree with that. Rarely do we bring in a new employee to load that has not been unloading for a while first. That way they kind of know what speeds are expected. In the case a new employee would come in and start loading, I would have them unload for me for at least 1 day.
If you throw a new guy on loading while the machine is indexing at 60dz/hr, shirt detector or not you are going to have a BUNCH of crooked/not centered reject shirts! From purely a financial point I would rather have slower indexing, hitting cancel pallet, or stopping the machine the first whole week for proper placement as opposed to 72 misprints....
I don't doubt that the detector has it's advantages, but I could also see it being a issue if you relay on it and all your presses don't have it. Wither you have 1 or 10 presses, as a press operator if you get used to using it on one press you look for it or assume that another press will have it. I know this happens for us with the pedal feature I mentioned.
-
Are these devices super expensive or something?
-
Teach them on a press that is indexing faster and they will run faster once trained. You can also walk away from the machine while it is still indexing after you put the last shirt on and do something else productive while the unloader is finishing removing the shirts. The machine will count the empty pallets and stop when the last shirt is removed. The operator can also follow the first empty pallet around the press to half way checking ink in the screens as they flood. When the unloader starts to see empty pallets they can follow the first shirt around and watch the floods until the first shirt reaches the unload station. Or they can take the pallets that show up empty from the operator when they were able to walk away and move up a new stack of shirts and tack them. There are many more but typist is not one of my better traits.
Bingo!
The sensor is a tool and when used as such enables you to do more with the job you're working on.
-
Are these devices super expensive or something?
not for what they accomplish. Roughly 2,000. Go back to my post showing the women running CH3 presses at over 1200. Per hour and watch how they use the unit. The press never stops during getting shirts and tacking. Some people think they are just buying a switch and stand. What you are paying for is actually the license to use the software.
-
no pedals or detectors needed here, if your experienced you don't need it. I do have the detector on my CH3D ONLY because it comes standard with the machine. I could take it or leave it.
there are multiple reasons for a shirt detector. Ask shops that run at high speeds. Also when training a new employee you can skip every other pallet until they get used to the machine. Teach them on a press that is indexing faster and they will run faster once trained. You can also walk away from the machine while it is still indexing after you put the last shirt on and do something else productive while the unloader is finishing removing the shirts. The machine will count the empty pallets and stop when the last shirt is removed. The operator can also follow the first empty pallet around the press to half way checking ink in the screens as they flood. When the unloader starts to see empty pallets they can follow the first shirt around and watch the floods until the first shirt reaches the unload station. Or they can take the pallets that show up empty from the operator when they were able to walk away and move up a new stack of shirts and tack them. There are many more but typist is not one of my better traits.
The Print Finish button, does almost everything you just mentioned without the detector. That's how its done on my diamondback, the detector is good for newbies no doubt. What I don't like about the detector is that head 1 will still flood forward even if you are finished with the job, if you use Print Finish, it doesn't. Honestly, I could argue both sides, I just choose one method over the other. They both work great.
-
Operator uses the skip button for misloads.
The skip feature will help if there's "no shirt" or if the shirt is crooked/ wrinkled. That will save you from printing a pallet and misprinting a shirt. It can be activated by a button or a foot switch.
-
after having them for so long, it certainly is annoying using a press without them, they just make things so simple. why stop the press when you can just keep rolling without thinking about it or breaking your pace? i guess that would be the difference in smaller shops and large high volume production shops, so the choice is up to you, but as an operator my preference would always be to have them if possible.
-
I would say definitely get a shirt detector, i think depending on the size of the run depends on if you will want to use it for every job but it is well worth the money. especially on larger runs, if you have a miss load its much easier to pull the shirt off and let the machine keep moving instead of pausing the machine. on small runs at our shop we like to run the jobs on double index so in that case we dont use the shirt detector. but yes get one! you will like it
-
One other thing to mention is on contact printing. The no shirt detector does you little good if you are still bringing a freshly tacked platen right up against over very close to a screen. The tack will tear off emulsion and/or lint will stick to the underside of the screen.
Toss in the fact that the older Gauntlet we have maintains the squeegee choppers in the down position at all times and you have a fairly useless feature for us...actually more of a liability.
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
-
I have the no shirt detector on my sportsman. I've never used it in case of misleads but I have on one job to avoid loading a particular warped pallet until I got a new pallet in. Other than that it's been setting on the floor under the press unplugged.
We never run the press at unbearable speeds but I can see where they would be beneficial if someone does.
-
had em on our challenger and gauntlet in 1993 and several machines since then, and again, wouldnt trade em if i wasnt forced to. i can see why those who werent used to them would say they had no use for them, and thats your option, but theyve never been anything but a benefit, new or old machine alike. but if youre not that into being super critical of your efficiencies than it may not make much of a difference to you.
-
How much are the no shirt detectors from M&R?
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
Yeah it totally negates the skip shirt functionality on table up/down presses but obviously the feature was designed under the assumption that there would be off contact.
We've ran our Gauntlet full tilt (which is actually around 700pcs/hr for this press), with me loading/operating and in the groove and I have to say that when you really get moving like that for hours on end you miss a throw now and then or just want to get a sip of your beverage or look up for a few seconds at your ink wells without bringing the whole show to a stop. I do really like the concept. Toss a bunch of clingy bastard ring spun cotton Ts into the situation and a mis-throw or a slow/hard time getting the shirt picked apart to grip it and load it before the press indexes is quite common.
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
Foot pedals are for amateurs :)
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
Foot pedals are for amateurs :)
You cut me deep there Alan, you cut me deep. :P
-
No way, foot pedals are great.
(http://www.effectsbay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pedal-line-friday-1-6-mod-gun-pauls.jpg)
I don't think I'd want one by the press to trip over though...
-
is that your guitar pedal board? Can you hear the delay when playing from all those buffered pedals? Love the EH pedals tho...
-
No way, foot pedals are great.
([url]http://www.effectsbay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pedal-line-friday-1-6-mod-gun-pauls.jpg[/url])
I don't think I'd want one by the press to trip over though...
I wish we had a like button! - I think I see few vintage 70's style MXR's here.
This is great ScreenFoo. I agree that it should go next to your press.
-
No way, foot pedals are great.
([url]http://www.effectsbay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pedal-line-friday-1-6-mod-gun-pauls.jpg[/url])
I don't think I'd want one by the press to trip over though...
Now those are my kind of pedals! All you are missing is the Way Huge Aqua Puss!
-
We don't have one, but I could see how it would come in handy on large long runs. We ran 5k shirts Friday. Some of these shirts come outta the cases not so straight and at 68dz a hour it might be nice to miss a pallet to fix the pile without worrying about stopping the press or using the peddle. We do have a peddle but its never been used, ever. LOL
-
We don't have one, but I could see how it would come in handy on large long runs. We ran 5k shirts Friday. Some of these shirts come outta the cases not so straight and at 68dz a hour it might be nice to miss a pallet to fix the pile without worrying about stopping the press or using the peddle. We do have a peddle but its never been used, ever. LOL
Your new press will have it. Please give an honest opinion of the feature when you get a chance.
-
We have no-go pedals. At first I thought they were useless, now I wouldn't have it any other way.
First press was go pedal. That is amateur.
-
We have no-go pedals. At first I thought they were useless, now I wouldn't have it any other way.
First press was go pedal. That is amateur.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
I HATED the pedal on the S.Roque as a break or a "no-go" at first. Actually had them write a mod to my program so I could switch it(the switch option came on the YOU models from my understanding) once they sent me the program mod, I couldn't delete the file fast enough! ;D
-
We don't have one, but I could see how it would come in handy on large long runs. We ran 5k shirts Friday. Some of these shirts come outta the cases not so straight and at 68dz a hour it might be nice to miss a pallet to fix the pile without worrying about stopping the press or using the peddle. We do have a peddle but its never been used, ever. LOL
Your new press will have it. Please give an honest opinion of the feature when you get a chance.
Will do. I didn't know it had that lol. Who knows what all that beast has. I can't wait.
-
We have no-go pedals. At first I thought they were useless, now I wouldn't have it any other way.
First press was go pedal. That is amateur.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
I HATED the pedal on the S.Roque as a break or a "no-go" at first. Actually had them write a mod to my program so I could switch it(the switch option came on the YOU models from my understanding) once they sent me the program mod, I couldn't delete the file fast enough! ;D
On my MHM in auto mode the foot pedal is a break or nogo pedal. In manual mode its a start pedal. I got my press with out the pedal and it was really hard to use the press with out it. I could only use it in manual mode touching the start on the screen after wvery shirt. Automode scared the Sh!t out of me. It was my first auto and I have never even touched an auto before that so I was really new.
-
I have found that some ops can't live without the NSD while others unplug it and stick it in under the dryer.
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
Foot pedals are for amateurs :)
You cut me deep there Alan, you cut me deep. :P
Slice like a ninja cut like a razor blade...
I've never used a foot pedal so I can't seriously comment on it's use. The way I load I don't think I would like one and keeping one foot in the same spot throughout a longer run seems like it would suck as a "go" pedal. Using one to stop the machine seems way more user friendly for me but when I need to stop the press now I just reach over with my finger and stop it. My hand/eye coordination is much better than my foot/eye. But who knows, if I used one for a few weeks I might love it.
-
I agree wholeheartedly with those of you touting it's benefits on newer model presses but even there if screens are set at on contact you really cannot be sending empty pallets around. I'd say this feature would be insanely useful on presses that lower the print heads to the platens v. the platens tabling up/down.
Guess I never really thought of that.... But like I said we just stop the press. Because I can't really think of a time we didn't get the shirt on the board, it is usually just the shirt not being positioned/straightened properly which the detector wouldn't exactly help anyway....
Looks like people really like the detector option or could care less and have made their own system. No one is really "in the middle" and uses it sometimes huh?
Bet this would get the same split response- Where do people stand(no pun intended) on using a foot pedal?
Foot pedals are for amateurs :)
You cut me deep there Alan, you cut me deep. :P
Slice like a ninja cut like a razor blade...
I've never used a foot pedal so I can't seriously comment on it's use. The way I load I don't think I would like one and keeping one foot in the same spot throughout a longer run seems like it would suck as a "go" pedal. Using one to stop the machine seems way more user friendly for me but when I need to stop the press now I just reach over with my finger and stop it. My hand/eye coordination is much better than my foot/eye. But who knows, if I used one for a few weeks I might love it.
The foot pedal is much better then stopping the press. It gives you control even if you don't need it. If I feel behind on a shirt I just push the pedal down when I put the shirt on. This way I know the press will not move and I know if I do get it on in time I didn't slow down the run. You can set the press to your full speed knowing you can stop it if your in trouble.
-
That setup looks fun, right? I never needed that many, being more into bass. Had the MXR blue and dist+, some phasey pedals (you gotta, if you like Bootsy,) and a big muff pi. But I just thought that photo was over the top for the subject.
I don't think I'd want the noise floor that comes with that many pedals and all their connections... where's that intermittent? ;D
Joking aside, never been on a press without a shirt detector, and IMHO, they save time on long runs. It's nice keeping the press running through wrinkled/folded shirts, or grabbing a drink of water quick, or whatever. As far as shirts being crooked and going under, if it's crooked as you're pulling it to position it, you just pull it off. Second nature once you do it for a while. The foot pedal doesn't seem quite as convenient to me, although I'm sure it would save some time, and if I had learned with one, perhaps I'd prefer it...
-
The first auto I used was a MHM with the pedal, when I left that company I bought a new Sportsman with no pedal , I was really concerned that it was going to be a problem but I think it actually sped things up. I had a couple of printers over the years use the pedal on the MHM as a crutch and would way overuse it.
I think a no shirt detector would be a good thing though because I have had the odd brain fart while printing fast and have totally missed a shirt. You know the dream of a holiday or your first Ferrari :)