TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Mark @ Hurricane Printing on February 16, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
-
The roller master is advertised as making a perfectly flat screen during the stretching process so I feel I shouldn't have to do anything extra when tightening the screens right?
Well today I finally got to mess with my new (bought used but was never used) Newman Roller Master. I meshed two brand new M3 23 x 31 frames but both frames are not flat after the process. I stretch to the desired tension...lock in the roller master....then begin to torque in a clockwise motion....If I am standing at the controls I torque the first bolt on my right then go clockwise.
It seems the one corner that does not have a clamp on it is where the rocking originates....it rocks 3/16" in opposite directions.
Am I supposed to start torquing in a different position maybe?
-
after you locked everything down and its a little wobbly, turn the screen to the other side and keep all bolts locked and put wrench on side that's not wobbling a hit it with your palm a tad until everything levels out.
-
ok..i will go try this now...BUT that means the roller master does not work as advertised..I shouldn't have to do any kind of flipping and banging corners. Thats whats irking me. I paid to NOT have to do just that!
-
I think its the table because when flipped the screen around the same locations are rocking.....so that means the metal pads each corner of frame rests on are not level.
-
its when you tighten that this happens, I used that same table for over 10 years. It will not keep screens level everytime. What I described is the fix for this. To help prevent this problem, ALWAYS tighten in a downward motion. If not you will have warped screens.
-
We use a roller master that we are constantly checking tension on or re meshing frames and I'd say for every 50 screens I make we get a warped one. Our results are pretty exceptional with it so it might be another issue such as corner sofenting or defective panels if your using them. Is your tension equal around all 4 corners of the mesh? Id just rule at all other variables after only doing 2 frames. Like dirk said make sure your torquing down in one smooth continuous motion until wrench clicks. You will get the occasional warped screen but for our shop its rare with our roller master. Could be the pads like you said but I'd look elsewhere first before changing that.
-
Make sure the knob for air pressure is turned out. I had the same problem. Don't move the pads! Air pressure fixed all my problems
-
Make sure the knob for air pressure is turned out. I had the same problem. Don't move the pads! Air pressure fixed all my problems
What do u mean "turned out" ?
-
As a matter of fact we get the same problem once in a while, mostly if we reach tension levels of over 45N. But that`s in the past since we switched to Murakami Mesh. Apparently there should not be any water inside your frames either but funny enough we have at least one frame that has a fair amount of it in it. But generally the guys at Stretchdevices are very keen on sorting out any issues you have with their products. Even got an email from Don last week offering me to manufacture flash panels that will exactly fit our MZX frames. this refers to one of my earlier threads regarding M3 panels not fitting into our MZX frames even though they should according to Stretchdevices and the company that we bought them of.
-
Where your air hooks up there should be a valve that controls how much air flow is going to your table.
-
Where your air hooks up there should be a valve that controls how much air flow is going to your table.
U mean this thing?...based on the pic it is turned correctly, right? (Im attaching from my phone..i hope it works)
-
If every frame comes off the table not level then there is a chance the adjustment corner is off.
You will notice that the three corners that have wrench heads are machined to the table. The one corner w/out a wrench is the leveling corner.
Put a screen on the table, with mesh in it. loosen the bolts, tension is up and check that corner. The other three corners will produce a flat screen, that last corner is there for the screen to rest on so when you tighten the bolts, it doesn't twist.
As for the bolt torque sequence, it's counter-clock wise from bottom left corner.
It's always best to snug the bolts first then go back around and torque them.
-
If every frame comes off the table not level then there is a chance the adjustment corner is off.
You will notice that the three corners that have wrench heads are machined to the table. The one corner w/out a wrench is the leveling corner.
Put a screen on the table, with mesh in it. loosen the bolts, tension is up and check that corner. The other three corners will produce a flat screen, that last corner is there for the screen to rest on so when you tighten the bolts, it doesn't twist.
As for the bolt torque sequence, it's counter-clock wise from bottom left corner.
It's always best to snug the bolts first then go back around and torque them.
What am I looking for when I check that corner? If the screen is elevated in the corner?
Also...the torque sequence...so you are saying if i am standing at the controls (all my controls are on one side..it is the newer model)....so if im at the controls...the left corner farthest from me is where I begin torquing correct? If so, do I tighten the bolt for the long roller first and go counter clockwise or the short roller first and go counter clockwise?
-
We go clockwise, start at the small bar on the right only that 1 bolt in the corner. This also prevents further tensioning than just tightening it. Also we hold down the corner that would 'pop up' when tightening down.
Starting with the bolts that when tightened would move the frame into the table should alleviate most issues...
-
What am I looking for when I check that corner? If the screen is elevated in the corner?
Also...the torque sequence...so you are saying if i am standing at the controls (all my controls are on one side..it is the newer model)....so if im at the controls...the left corner farthest from me is where I begin torquing correct? If so, do I tighten the bolt for the long roller first and go counter clockwise or the short roller first and go counter clockwise?
Yes you want to make sure that adjustment corner isn't to high or to low. If you bought the table brand new, then it's fine. If you bought it used, then chances are it's been messed with as people tend to blame the table for making twisted screens when the main problem is technic and not using the table correctly.
Standing at the controls, your left hand is the lower left corner. Start on the short roller bolt, snug it then walk around the table counter-clockwise snugging bolts. Then walk around again and torque the bolts.
-
???
Do these things not come with an owner's manual and complete instructions?
-
who needs those when you can just ask some random person on the internet how they do it..
-
when I say new i should have clarified it is in fact used BUT barely touched...bought it from a guy whos company bought it but never got around to using it due to lack of time to show his employees how to use it.....it is in pristine condition and a newer L2 model.....it qualifies as being labeled brand new due hardly being touched so I i do not think the unleveling of the frames will be from too much use.
I will try everyone's suggestion after work today.
-
Armchair engineer here, but wouldn't a fourth clamp, stationary even, negate all of this magic dancing?
We occasionally fight with flat frames. If you're not careful about just tightening on the first round, and torqueing
on the next, and also being sure that you aren't lifting the frame in any way while torqueing, you can get an unlevel frame.
You kind of have to take out any "slack" on the first round.
But yeah, fourth clamp.
-
It's always best to snug the bolts first then go back around and torque them.
This helped us having non flat frames. We go round in two rounds as well.
Boris
-
who needs those when you can just ask some random person on the internet how they do it..
Funny that you mentioned this, the videos say and show clockwise around the table not CCW like your last post. Starting at the bolt I mentioned too I believe.
We also do a snug then a tighten round. Our frames almost never have non flat issues after being tightened, and if they do it's minor and can be fixed by applying pressure to opposite corners of the frame when the corner with the bounce from the table is elevated.
There are a lot of videos on youtube of how to properly use it that I used when we initially got the table and frames in. Sure was nice starting with all the right equipment and not having to bother with the big magnesium wrench.
3 part video series starts here:
Using the Newman Roller Master - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lXU0uAFT0k#)
I've talked to George at trade shows about it and corner softening too...
-
I watched all of the videos multiple times even before i landed a roller master.
-
I know Stretch says to do clockwise starting at a specific bolt, the one on the short roller in the corner with two wrenches then moving clockwise. We have racked frames from time to time and it always happened when we were using very high tension mesh, 40+ newtons. It happens every 5 or so screens now.
-
George and I share the same zip code so next time we meet up for a beer around the corner, I'll bring up the CW or CCW direction.
I've been going CCW as long as I can remember, maybe i'm doing it wrong.
-
When George was in our shop a few months ago he showed us tightening in a clockwise direction, first time just to snug, the 2nd time round to torque, holding the frame in strategic spots to add extra leverage without pulling the frame. I struggled with our table for over a year. Then George came in turned the air inlet valve wide open and from then on I question my IQ
-
I'm going to 'assume' the roller master table has elevated pads for the corners to sit on sit before hooking up the cable devices.
I don't know if you want to drill holes, but you could install 4 toggle clamps to keep the frame flattened down tightly after stretching to tighten the bolts.
http://www.rockler.com/bessey-auto-adjust-toggle-clamp-hold-down?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=CLfYrerb1LwCFUcV7Aod5lAA-Q (http://www.rockler.com/bessey-auto-adjust-toggle-clamp-hold-down?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=CLfYrerb1LwCFUcV7Aod5lAA-Q)
Similar to my cheesy DIY manual setup, but I don't get warped frames after tightening -
-
I think i figured out what the problem is....check out the pic....it is of the corner that does not have a clamp socket....the corner of the frame is not resting 100% on the leveling pads of the table...wouldnt this be the reason im not getting a flat frame? Seems to me the entire frame corner should be resting on on the pad, correct?....If this is in fact the case, what happens when i unscrew it?...Can it be repositioned?....arent the pads factory calibrated to the table to produce a flat frame? And yes, the frame is in exact position on the table.
-
Level your table first.
That pad has six screws, three lock it into position (the larger ones) and three to raise or lower it.
After you get it perfect in all directions (make sure your frame is tight on the other three non-adjustable stops) lock it down.
Double check your work with a frame tested for flatness on your exposure unit.
Stretch another screen and make sure to go around twice when you tighten, just snug on the first round.
But riddle me this. If you look at the other frame stops, is your frame resting on the corners themselves or the tubes?
-
I always do a snug first then torque...and all other frame corners are resting completely on a leveling pad...and ONLY the frame corners......and anyway the frame corners are slightly thicker than than the rollers so even if some roller went over a pad it wouldn't touch it.......he only corner not 100% on a pad is the one corner without a clamp.
-
This was supposed to be the second pic in the above post....side shot of roller over the pad ...may not be able to see the slight gap between the roller and the pad but its there...the roller will never touch a pad being that is is ever so slightly thinner than the frame corners.
-
Just got off the phone with Mr. George from Stretch Devices....gave me a lot of good info. For one, the frame corner that sets on the table without the clamps is correct by not setting 100% on a leveling pad...still doesnt make sense to me but that is how its supposed to be.
The 2 things I need to do is open the main valve up all the way until I feel resistance then turn in in a quarter turn...I DID originally open the valve up all the way but NOT till I felt resistance..I just opened it up what I felt was a lot and left it at that.
Also bring my torque wrench from 55 ftlbs to 60 ftlbs.
I will address this all tonight after work.
-
Sounds like you are were in the same situation I was in a couple of months ago. Like I said earlier, air pressure fixed everything.