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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: inkman996 on March 12, 2014, 09:09:03 AM
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This is a doozie. We landed the largest order in our history. Here is the details. Minimum 5k at a time minimum 100k a year. Ok sounds good so far BUT here is where it gets crazy. Every shirt gets a single color and number on front. Numbers go up to 3 digits, 500 max.
Shirts come in and we have to print them all same image then list of break down of camps is provided, 1 thru what ever. We have to number them then send to whatever sport camp it goes to in the country. Nice thing is they are all 100% poly shirts so easy to print on with out flash.
Our problem is what is the best method for numbering? Heat pressing is out of the question at that volume. We do not have a numbering press. Is the number stencils practical? Or buy an actual numbering system? Our manual is side clamped which means an attachment probably will not work.
Labor is a non issue, hiring more folks is happening anyways and we have a couple guys that would love a mindless job like this all day long.
If buying an actual numbering system what would you recommend? Would much prefer something long and narrow over a carousel due to space constraints.
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My friends Scott and Brannon have a newer Brown numbering press f/$2,500 OBO
405-583-4903 (ATL)
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I have an older brown numbering press with update kit and several sets of screens for $1500 OBO as Is where is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Same color ink?
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Only black prints and white.
Carousel is out of the question since we do not have space for it.
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What about an inline?
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What about an inline?
That would be ideal but our press is side clamped, if we could convert one of the heads to rear clamp that would be nice. Still want to hear if people like the stencils if they are practical or to much of a pain to deal with.
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An inline is a separate press all on its own. Designated numbering system.
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You need something like this
http://www.inlinetechnologies.com/default.aspx (http://www.inlinetechnologies.com/default.aspx)
http://www.digitsmith.com/attachments/23477d1375983409-2006-inline-numbering-system-img_0145.jpg (http://www.digitsmith.com/attachments/23477d1375983409-2006-inline-numbering-system-img_0145.jpg)
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I think Tony was talking about these-[URL] http://www.inlinetechnologies.com/default.aspx?ID=9[ /URL]
Which is actually what u would recommend also if it is only going to be 2 ink colors. You could have it set up with a 1 color top screen and then another 1 color screen that usually is used for 2 color numbers. It would work sweet! There are also some used ones on digitsmith.
I had one of them but my beef was that it took a while to change screen ink colors. So I always said they would be a great machine is you had say 5 of them. A red one, black one, white one, gold one and one that changes. But just 1 would be perfect for your situation!!!
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For that volume I would have a set of black screens and one for white
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what about 3 or 4 heat presses and screened numbers from stahls? I know we can crank with those when we have to. I bet you can do them just as fast if set up properly. We looked into the paper stencils but it looked too messy, we ended up with the number kits from stahls...
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why would ironing be out of the question, I have no exp. on number presses but from the videos i have seen they don't seem that quick also can they do 3 digit numbers?,
2 irons and 2 low wage people should be able to crank out a lot of shirts a day , I would expect at least 500 a day per press here.
Since the numbers are only black and white they should go really quick,
I only say this because my kids play soccer and all of there jersey have ironed numbers on them and they come from a very large supplier that only does team wear , and I'm sure some of the leagues by thousands of shirts at a time
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why would ironing be out of the question, I have no exp. on number presses but from the videos i have seen they don't seem that quick also can they do 3 digit numbers?,
2 irons and 2 low wage people should be able to crank out a lot of shirts a day , I would expect at least 500 a day per press here.
Since the numbers are only black and white they should go really quick,
I only say this because my kids play soccer and all of there jersey have ironed numbers on them and they come from a very large supplier that only does team wear , and I'm sure some of the leagues by thousands of shirts at a time
Several factors for not using a heat press or multiple ones. POWER is the biggest one, we are already near maxed out on our 200 amps, no way we could plop in a couple more heat presses. Our best bet is manual printing the numbers and the oven would already be on and running for our regular jobs.
Another factor is the samples we have on hand have printed numbers that match the logo print exactly, so we would prefer to stick with that way.
I am liking the inline press linked above, looks practical and some what idiot proof, I really wanted to hear of the stencils were good or bad.
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Heres what Iconsider to be the underlying question..........is this program already been accepted with pricing submitted before labor/raw materials being costed out? Not a dig at Mike however if it has you could be in trouble. It took me two days to come up with costing on a similar program consiisting of printing, 2-sided foiling, and inside neck labeling. Time studies on six air operated transfer machines in a dedicated are that I just built but it was worth it. BTW Stahls #s=expensive
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why would ironing be out of the question, I have no exp. on number presses but from the videos i have seen they don't seem that quick also can they do 3 digit numbers?,
2 irons and 2 low wage people should be able to crank out a lot of shirts a day , I would expect at least 500 a day per press here.
Since the numbers are only black and white they should go really quick,
I only say this because my kids play soccer and all of there jersey have ironed numbers on them and they come from a very large supplier that only does team wear , and I'm sure some of the leagues by thousands of shirts at a time
Total cost to print them would be less on a Inline numbering machine. We did 3 digit numbers, it was not too tricky but did provide a bit more careful placement than regular 2 digit numbers. Multiple heat presses would be a waste(electricity), get a two station auto heat press(I have one to sell ::) ) would maybe make sense but that is if you printed the transfers yourself. But at that point you are back to printing again and might as well do it on a Inline press. ESPECIALLY since it is only 2 colors and black is one of them. I think I forgot to mention it.... LUCKY DOG!!!
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With that many pcs and if it's a continuous job that is never ending I would be going auto LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32uFvax_cw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p32uFvax_cw)
Load up your numbers and the machine automatically sends you the screens, etc.... Does all the thinking for you
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I would not even think to direct print all those..
been there done that and let me tell you, printing numbers sucks no matter how you do it.
buy a heat press or two from fleabay, a roland cutter and buy your vinyl and cad cut it all yourself.
In the end.. the time you save by pressing it all will pay for the cost to acquire the tools, so that next time, you're a slicing and dicing pressing machine.
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Cool but he couldn't fit that in his shop. In addition I would build an amortition % to my pricing for at least part of the considerable money for at least some of the equipment. If the program goes away (as they often do) you have a nice dust collector. Although its possible to convert it into a std manual it would be a pricey one.
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I don't see how running 3 or 4 heat presses plus the stahls numbers would be expensive, build it into the job. it costs what it costs...unless you bid the job before having a method/solution then that's a different problem. BUT you said you can't run that many due to power issues, so that rules that out. We don't give a price until we know how we are going to produce the job. costs me 2.00 per number from stahls, another buck or two to put it on with juice and labor, fine - I'll just charge what I need to make money...
any room to sub it out? make coin on the other printing?
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Heres what Iconsider to be the underlying question..........is this program already been accepted with pricing submitted before labor/raw materials being costed out? Not a dig at Mike however if it has you could be in trouble. It took me two days to come up with costing on a similar program consiisting of printing, 2-sided foiling, and inside neck labeling. Time studies on six air operated transfer machines in a dedicated are that I just built but it was worth it. BTW Stahls #s=expensive
We committed to the logo printing already, that part is easy to estimate. The numbering we still need to come up with costs and labor then submit a quote. If it is out of our league then the shirts will be sent to another for numbering which is how they have done it for several years. Thing is they wish to have it all done in house by someone and save some money this way. I am confident once we nail down what process we will use and how the labor will be part of that system we can then quote correctly, I am also confident our quote even if high would still out weigh the cost of having two separate manufacturers touch the job and all the extra shipping included.
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Does anyone have a ballpark price on the inline new only?
Sorry but we are a lot like Brandt new only is the way to go for us.
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Good Job Mike. I knew you were going about in the right way
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On those quantities it might make sense to buy a set of statics and make single digits on one side of the screen and on the flip side put the same number as if it's the first number and beside it the second digit then knock them out on the auto. Hope that makes sense.
We do quite a bit of team stuff but not at the quantities that you've landed (congrats by the way) and we had a decent numbering press/attachment for the Vastex manual press and it didn't take long to abandon that press and start heat pressing all of our numbers. We have two heat presses and we buy our numbers from Transfer Express and make sure you get the poly numbers or you could go with a "vinyl" type product from Dalco that will not bleed on the black jerseys which sometimes can be suspect bleeders. On most of the performance wear jerseys we have started using the Dalco numbers instead of the Transfer Express screen printed numbers due to bleed issues. Our biggest numbering job was 600 pieces last year and we heat pressed instead of direct printed.
I did some time testing and on a typical team job of 15 jerseys, dark colors, it took 30-45 minutes to do them on our numbering press and about 15-20 minutes to do the same job on our heat press. Light colored garments not requiring a flash the times were very close but we had lesser quality on the direct prints along with complete misprints happening more often. You do have to be somewhat careful with the heat pressed numbers so that you don't put the wrong number on the wrong side but the Dalco numbers are easier than the screen printed transfers in that regard. There is no doubt in my mind that on the dark garments that heat pressing them will be significantly faster than directly printing. Now as to what will cost less, that is up to you and your shop to figure all of that out :). But for us I ditched the direct printing numbers after a year or so of doing it then trying the heat press method. Your mileage may vary but I really think heat pressing will be better overall, regardless of shop.
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The Brown Slider could do this in a 2'x4' footprint. I would buy two. Looks pretty affordable. Won't chew up other auto$$$$
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It seems that Inkman will lose the advantage that many big-house uniform type shops get;
repeats! They may print 500 #1's, and then 500 #2's, etc.
Going all the way up to 500 really complicates a generally relatively standard process.
I was going to ask if there would be enough consistency in sizes to pre-print the numbers to be used in future runs, but what a nightmare to store and catalog thousands of different sized shirts with 500 different numbers.
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Heres what Iconsider to be the underlying question..........is this program already been accepted with pricing submitted before labor/raw materials being costed out? Not a dig at Mike however if it has you could be in trouble. It took me two days to come up with costing on a similar program consiisting of printing, 2-sided foiling, and inside neck labeling. Time studies on six air operated transfer machines in a dedicated are that I just built but it was worth it. BTW Stahls #s=expensive
We committed to the logo printing already, that part is easy to estimate. The numbering we still need to come up with costs and labor then submit a quote. If it is out of our league then the shirts will be sent to another for numbering which is how they have done it for several years. Thing is they wish to have it all done in house by someone and save some money this way. I am confident once we nail down what process we will use and how the labor will be part of that system we can then quote correctly, I am also confident our quote even if high would still out weigh the cost of having two separate manufacturers touch the job and all the extra shipping included.
I can't remember what ours costed when we got it. But I DO remember the guy wanted to wheel and deal on his presses he brings to trade shows.... He even came to the smaller regional ones, may save you some coin!
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On those quantities it might make sense to buy a set of statics and make single digits on one side of the screen and on the flip side put the same number as if it's the first number and beside it the second digit then knock them out on the auto. Hope that makes sense.
We do quite a bit of team stuff but not at the quantities that you've landed (congrats by the way) and we had a decent numbering press/attachment for the Vastex manual press and it didn't take long to abandon that press and start heat pressing all of our numbers. We have two heat presses and we buy our numbers from Transfer Express and make sure you get the poly numbers or you could go with a "vinyl" type product from Dalco that will not bleed on the black jerseys which sometimes can be suspect bleeders. On most of the performance wear jerseys we have started using the Dalco numbers instead of the Transfer Express screen printed numbers due to bleed issues. Our biggest numbering job was 600 pieces last year and we heat pressed instead of direct printed.
I did some time testing and on a typical team job of 15 jerseys, dark colors, it took 30-45 minutes to do them on our numbering press and about 15-20 minutes to do the same job on our heat press. Light colored garments not requiring a flash the times were very close but we had lesser quality on the direct prints along with complete misprints happening more often. You do have to be somewhat careful with the heat pressed numbers so that you don't put the wrong number on the wrong side but the Dalco numbers are easier than the screen printed transfers in that regard. There is no doubt in my mind that on the dark garments that heat pressing them will be significantly faster than directly printing. Now as to what will cost less, that is up to you and your shop to figure all of that out :). But for us I ditched the direct printing numbers after a year or so of doing it then trying the heat press method. Your mileage may vary but I really think heat pressing will be better overall, regardless of shop.
Thats a lot to chew on Alan thanks (kind of) :(
I guess I should look closer at auto heat presses and power requirements. The Abacus looks like that cats meow but completely out of the question for us. Wow that thing is sweet!
The program is consistent and has been for years, basically it is for FB camps all across the country and used for colleges for recruiting purposes. It is a sweet job that could be the final push to moving into a larger building finally!
One concern I do have with the inline system is wet ink on wet ink, does the bottom of the screen have to be wiped after each print or worse flash every number?
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One concern I do have with the inline system is wet ink on wet ink, does the bottom of the screen have to be wiped after each print or worse flash every number?
No it usually is good to go, it is in the printing technique.
The auto heat press I have sitting in the basement is 110V 20A if I remember correctly..... But does require air.
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Air heat seal critical for large orders
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I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a numbering system like for flexo, IE rotary screens.
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You know we love our Vastex Digit but for large orders we have found the plastisol transfers from FM works best for us.
I have two issues with the inline. First the size of the screen, if it rips it needs to out to be stretched and how does the average shop burn the screen. Second there are no physical stops only visual references. If you have to P/F/P it may be difficult to line the image back up perfectly.
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I skipped to the end so if it was mentioned, I didn't read it. Ultimate Numbering Machine?? I believe Hopkins bought it out. Attaches to a manual press. www.k2ultimate.com (http://www.k2ultimate.com)
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I also have an Inline and love it but for that many ?????? I also have 2 heat presses but for the cost and production I will go with Inline hands down. A gallon of ink will print many many numbers. The downside is the 3 numbers ( I am assuming they are 6'' numbers) but I believe I could rig something in order to have that work out. It will be time consuming but I figure I could print 200 to 300 a day with no problem if there is no ink change. Congrads on the huge order!
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Working on something pretty cool. App 2000 pcs per day w/one machine heat seal. Small footprint. Not rotary.
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I know you said you didn't want to go used, but I just saw this on Craigslist in MA:
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bfs/4363220793.html (http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bfs/4363220793.html)
The M&R Abacus just blew my mind.
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We briefly looked into a numbering press but the consistency of the stamped numbers and the fact that less skilled employees could apply them won out for now. You could train most anyone catching at the end of the dryer to do it. (although we usually have the main catcher/shipper do it, as she is the fastest and most consistent)
This frees the actual printers up to... you know, print.
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BUT if I did have to print them all the time I'd look into this setup, which works on back clamp or side clamp presses:
http://westarsolutions.com/collections/numbering/products/quickdraw-numbering-system (http://westarsolutions.com/collections/numbering/products/quickdraw-numbering-system)
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AND the nice thing about the Westar setup is you can buy extra blank frames for spares, and use you own films/fonts etc to make the stencils.
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that is pretty sweet (adds it to our wishlist).
we bought enough heat press material last year that we could have bought this setup and saved money.
to say nothing about the weeding and plotter setup time.
and we could then do the cool 2 color prints... which are a bit of a pita on the heat press to get aligned correctly.
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BUT if I did have to print them all the time I'd look into this setup, which works on back clamp or side clamp presses:
[url]http://westarsolutions.com/collections/numbering/products/quickdraw-numbering-system[/url] ([url]http://westarsolutions.com/collections/numbering/products/quickdraw-numbering-system[/url])
I haven't seen that before, pretty neat deal there..... All you DIY'ers fire up your welder! ;D
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Brown press all the way
Roger
RT screen designs
Www.rtscreendesigns. Com
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We have an Inline, and it' works great, but it won't do 3 digit. A few years ago one of my customers supplied the generic football jersey for vendors at Gillette Stadium. They had to be numbered 1 - 499. We ordered that set of numbers from Names Ltd. and heat applied them. Trust me, it's faster. Pick up a second heat press, or third. When we do 100% poly uniforms with 2 color numbers, we don't direct print, we get what we need from Stahls/Transfer Express, it's simply faster.
Steve
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We are narrowing it down to buying a two platen shuttle style heat press as automatic as possible. Looking at prices new and used. Fortunately the numbers are only 4" but we have to make sure the white numbers are 100% no bleed, shirt colors are basically every standard color that gets either white or black print and number.
I will say it pays to be around the corner from ESPN's head quarters!
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I have used these numbers in the past as well as working for the parent company.
They make quality easy to use numbers in a variety of colors/styles that will adhere well,
pass wash test. Athletic colors match well to standard athletic fabric colors.
this is the fastest way to apply numbers. Machines are OK, but print/flash/print is slow on white
and golds. Quick heat transfer application allows you to gang up multiple heat presses to stay
up with automatic production speeds.
http://www.transfernumbers.com/ (http://www.transfernumbers.com/)