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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: jvanick on March 25, 2014, 10:37:27 AM
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We're outpacing our old beater Mercury dryer, and the temperature control seems to be wonky... I replaced the old Athena control with an Omron digital unit, but that seems to have made matters worse... of course I might be running things wrong... anybody have any comments on that? Maybe I should try maxing out the temperature on the control and just use the belt speed to adjust cure temps???
Basically if we slow down or change production, we'll either get a shirt coming out undercured or scorched. (temp gun and donut probe both confirm this too... temperature will vary from 380 on the high end to 315 on the low end... and anywhere between... really frustrating.
Trying to figure out what I should do...
There's a used 36"wide 6ft chamber Maxicure (older one with the dial-based temperature controller) available... would have to convert from 3phase to 1phase, however I have an electronics/electrician friend who has looked at the schematics and say that this is not a major project (would have to buy 2 new relays/mercury switches).
Or??? Maybe go new?
Considering the Vastex BigRed 30 or Workhorse 3011.... anything else in the 6-7k new range worth considering???
Budget is max of 8k, crated & delivered.
We print lots of plastisol and more and more waterbase...
feeding it from our ancient javelin... max print speed we've ever achieved was 300/hr... but would be nice if the dryer could keep up if we are printing on the manual at the same time.
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if possible, avoid electric. they are more expensive to run and it's not as easy to set your temps as gas.
even if you have to get a propane tank installed, it might be cheaper than electric in the long haul...look into it.
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I do have natural gas in the shop area... hmmm..
not sure if I can fit a full sized gas dryer in there tho...
I've got 12ft of length without getting too cramped.
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you can always go hybrid too, gas with IR bump panels in front.
the person to ask...Winston.
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I do have natural gas in the shop area... hmmm..
not sure if I can fit a full sized gas dryer in there tho...
I've got 12ft of length without getting too cramped.
M&R Heatwave is gas operated and will run circles around the little one or two panel electric dryers. With the money available, you could put half of it down, keep $4K and probably have less than $200/month payment. Or, throw in the other $4k and pay less then $100 per month. Your electric bill savings will more than cover that!
pierre
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Go with gas, especially if doing more WB, just my 2cents for what its worth.
Murphy37
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Should fit. They can customize infeed/outfeed
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Go gas, huge savings I bet on your electric bill. I think our Gas Dryer drinks less than $1 a hour.
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I do have natural gas in the shop area... hmmm..
not sure if I can fit a full sized gas dryer in there tho...
I've got 12ft of length without getting too cramped.
If you have a stub in your space and a meter on the wall then all you need to do is call the gas company and have it turned on.
If you have a stub out of the ground next to the building then you'll need to contact the gas company for a meter and new service, they will come out and check the site, give you a 'plan' that you use to acquire a gas line instal permit from the city. Once the plumber intalls the gas line, the city passes the permit the gas company comes out, installs the meter and you hook up to your dryer.
Do all this now as it can take a few weeks. While doing that call your local M&R rep and get you a mini sprint. Should hit your door in 3-5 weeks.
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Gas line is already in place ... (we have a natural gas warehouse heater)... and shockingly, where it comes into the shop is almost exactly in line with where the dryer would live.
gonna start thinking about a new gas dryer.. but gonna keep an eye on digitsmith for a used one too... would rather not lease...
-J
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Gas line is already in place ... (we have a natural gas warehouse heater)... and shockingly, where it comes into the shop is almost exactly in line with where the dryer would live.
gonna start thinking about a new gas dryer.. but gonna keep an eye on digitsmith for a used one too... would rather not lease...
-J
I think Alan saved enough on his electricity savings that it paid for his dryer. So something to consider there.
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remember that we're still a 'garage' printer... many weeks, we only print for 15-20 hours total...
half of me would love to figure out what's wrong with the current dryer until we get a commercial space, but it's starting to hold us up.
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Give me a call. Maybe I can help.
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I bought a used Radicure 36" ( its approx 5" wide by 11.5' long) 4 panel for around $5000 and really like it, its faster than my old one and a small auto and manual can run on it at the same time. I have no gas and with propane making such a huge jump in price I'm glad I didn't go that way.
It was 3 phase and was converted to single, that was no big problem all the pieces I needed were bought locally. Only issue you might have is hydo , it jumps to approx 80-90 amps in single phase. I must say the Hydro isn't that bad , I run it 8+ hours daily +compressor, 3 spots , shop hydro and my hydro bill iare around $450 month average.
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remember that we're still a 'garage' printer... many weeks, we only print for 15-20 hours total...
half of me would love to figure out what's wrong with the current dryer until we get a commercial space, but it's starting to hold us up.
I know Sam Wildt is wanting a larger dryer so why don't you call him and see if he will sell you his Heatwave?
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Gas line is already in place ...
You have no idea how lucky you are!!
I sheet you not.. it took us 6 months and over 10k in fees to get our gas line installed.
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Looks like $1250 for the Maxicure...
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Somebody want to talk me out of it?
I know I can't get into a gas dryer for that price ;)
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sure, it will cost you more in the long run...but a lot.
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Looks like $1250 for the Maxicure...
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Somebody want to talk me out of it?
I know I can't get into a gas dryer for that price ;)
The maxicure was discontinued in 2004 and was first made in 1987. Not a really smart move to buy something we dont stock a lot of parts for anymore. Great dryer in its time but a energy hog by today's standards. Don't do it!
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IMO if your building for the future gas is gotta be your choice. If your building for now then ya go that way.
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ok, you guys talked me out of it.
plus...
thanks Paul over at Workhorse who pointed me in the right direction in at least bandaiding what I'm using at the moment, so I suppose I can wait for a while until the right deal comes along, or we move.
I definitely want to get a gas dryer when we move, and can support the length and width without getting into anything custom.
Thanks guys!
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Great advice from everyone about doing gas, have no doubt big saving down the line, but gas might not be for everyone. Sounds like to me your letting your biz grow your equipment need which is smart if your trying to save a few pennies here and there until your biz say hey we can do it now. This topic reminds of one I'd like to start and not derail this one.
Darryl
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We're outpacing our old beater Mercury dryer, and the temperature control seems to be wonky... I replaced the old Athena control with an Omron digital unit, but that seems to have made matters worse... of course I might be running things wrong... anybody have any comments on that? Maybe I should try maxing out the temperature on the control and just use the belt speed to adjust cure temps???
Basically if we slow down or change production, we'll either get a shirt coming out undercured or scorched. (temp gun and donut probe both confirm this too... temperature will vary from 380 on the high end to 315 on the low end... and anywhere between... really frustrating.
Went through this process when I put in a new PID controller on an older lawson dryer and upgraded to solid state relays.
Under the settings of your controller there should be a PB value. If your dryer overshoots, then undershoots, you need to up the PB value. Try doubling it first and see if it levels out quicker and maintains when loaded with shirts.
Here's a PDF that talks about tuning PID controllers. It's kinda all jargon to me, but the graphs make sense and with a little (or a lot) of trial and error, you can get it tuned.
http://www.omega.com/temperature/Z/pdf/z115-117.pdf (http://www.omega.com/temperature/Z/pdf/z115-117.pdf)
I had the exact same problem with mine when I got it. They aren't calibrated for SLOW ir heating elements and need tuning to get them dialed in. Once I had the correct values put in it was a darn rock solid dryer and temp control. Load a bunch of shirts on the belt and it handled it like a champ. Replaced it with a circa 1989 precision vortex gas dryer lol.
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Gas is the way to go hands down. Make sure your incoming gas line is large enough. We were very lucky to have a 1 1/4" pipe at our new space and it turns out we need it for the HO we are going to install. The larger gas units are monsters, 390k btu. We had to have the utility co. upgrade the meter, that's a lot of pull if running at full tilt.
That said, if you score a good electric dryer for cheap, you have a few years of high electric bills that you can eat before it becomes a bad decision. You could do electric just for a year while you plan/save for gas. Get your production up now and your gas dryer as soon as you can, best of both worlds in a sense.
We did this, I got a large electric unit for peanuts, tossed a few more peanuts into it and we had stupid high electric bills for the last couple years but total cost is still very low when you add it all up for the output it helped us achieve. Not a long term solution of course and kind of wasteful but another way to look at it. There are very good deals on electric dryers out there. I think your problem with temp fluctuating is just endemic to panel heated electric dryers, without lots of forced air it just can't stay within 50 degrees.
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Yes on gas if you can, especially for WB.
Keep in mind however, we are at the mercy of the utility companies, and natural gas is at
historic lows right now. Tomorrow might bring something different.
Maxi-Cures are good solid dryers. Replacing the temp control on any dryer with a PID and solid
state relays is always a good idea. It's inexpensive and super reliable. Modern PID's have "learn" modes
that will learn how long it takes your heat source to react to changes. Holding within a few degrees, for the
panel temp (what most electric dryers measure) should not be a problem.
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as a former maxi-cure owner, I would never go back to one. it was a great dryer for years, but in my opinion, it didn't age well. it needed to be rewired totally and that was more work than we were willing to put into it.
i swear the lights on our street would dim when we turned it on.