TSB
screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: Appstro on April 25, 2014, 09:48:43 AM
-
So I have done about 10 - 12 jobs now. Each job has been a huge learning experience. Some of them pretty costly... For the most part I feel that I am making progress in my learning and I expect to make a ton of mistakes so no worries... However, I am getting pretty discouraged with the "clean up" part of screen printing. I have been doing jobs and carding the ink off of my screens and squeegees. BUT I have let the screens and squeegees sit for two weeks while I do other jobs.
Last time I reclaimed screens it took several hours. Lots of ink waste, lots of scrubbing, getting wet, lots of chemical. A huge amount of time to clean 10 screens. Then a few days later apply emulsion to all the screens. The whole process I figure was 5 hours of work.
So yesterday I again dropped more money into this, well lets call it a hobby......for what seemed to be a great idea! A dip tank and chemicals!! I read several reviews, some great and some terrible. I bought the easiway tank and Supra one step stuff.
The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.. So I did what I have been doing all along.... I scrubbed the screens with emulsion remover and ink degradent. The screens were clean...Time saved from before I had the dip tank - ZERO. The next batch I pre cleaned as much as possible but left a little ink on them....Same thing..still scrubbing. All in all, last night I scrubbed 12 screens for 4-5 hours. What a huge time wasting pile of dung this is!!
Screen printing has been difficult and costly for me. I am making money but most of it seems to be going to other people supporting my efforts. People dont want to pay more than 5-8 dollars a shirt. The time it takes to prepare for and then clean up the mess is not profitable to me and I cant charge the customer for it. The $30 per color set up fee that I am charging doesnt even seem like enough to me at this point.
If I am going to succeed in this venture I need to process screens more efficiently. I need to clean up quickly at the end of every run. How I do this I am not sure. I am doing something wrong. I know it..
I am actually thinking about buying a new screen for every job and chucking it in a pile for craigslist when I am done. That seems more efficient than spending 5 hours cleaning and prepping them.
Perhaps I am terribly mistaken here and need to understand how to do things correctly. Do you guys have any advice for me? I really hate cleaning all these damn screens. Its like I am a dishwasher in some seedy cafe somewhere....
As always thank you for your time and advice!
-
You should lay out your steps exactly and the chemical brands you use so we can help. It really sounds like your doing something wrong in your process. For instance my guy can do 15+ screens an hour that includes ink removal, emulsion removal, and dehazing.
Just a quick ice of how we do it.
First ink is carded out of the screen, all tape is left on.
The screen is placed standing up in the booth. We spray the screen where ever ink is with citra paste. Using a scrub brush we scrub the ink and chemicals together, then using a hose we rinse the ink and chems off. Citra paste works great for this.
Then the tape is removed, its easier and cleaner to remove the tape at this point because its moist and comes right off.
Then emulsion remover is sprayed on and spread around with a separate brush. In two minutes the pressure washer blasts off the emulsions.
Next we apply liquid renuit where needed, scrubbed with another brush to help penetrate the mesh. We put the screens to the side that have dehazer on them to give the chems more time to work and start the process on the next batch of screens. Once enough time has passed we blast off the renuit and rinse thoroughly, screen is all done at this point.
All the time tho we are doing two screens at a time and always have screens with dehazer on them, keeping the flow going makes it go pretty fast.
-
are you using a pressure washer?
Also...
Easiway Supra alone isn't enough to get all the ink out of the mesh.. you needan ink degradent and a degreaser.
Easiway's product is called '701' supposedly it works for both the degradent and degreaser step...
Here, we use a product from Xenon called Plastiwash before the dip tank... and if there's any remaining ink, Xenon FSIC... followed by Xenon Degreaser...
I can easily also do 15 screens an hour... probably more if I didn't get distracted.
-
We first wet the screen, spray ink degradient on both sides let set for about 2 minutes then use a scrub pad to scrub both sides of the screen. After that we use a pressure washer to finish getting the ink out. When that's all said and done we dip them in the tank. After you pull them out of the tank you use a pressure washer to spray both sides of the screen thoroughly to remove all of the emulsion. Then use a separate brush and apply degreaser/stain remover to both sides of the screen. We usually let that set in for a minute or 2 and thoroughly spray both sides of the screen to remove all of the degreaser. That should remove the rest of the stain from the ink.
It shouldn't take that long to clean 10 screens. If you are working at a reasonable pace you should have 10 screens completely reclaimed in approximately 30 minutes.
I haven't found a dip tank solution yet that will get rid of the ink and emulsion even though it may say ink and emulsion remover.'
-
We get the ink off completely before dipping. We also use 701 to de-ink, spray it on, scrub with brush, power wash ink away then dip. We can do 20 screens/hr not rushing things. We take the tape off prior to doing anything though. The Supra is ok, we've found better.
One thing that might be a problem is underexposure. That usually causes headaches for reclaiming.
-
So yesterday I again dropped more money into this, well lets call it a hobby......for what seemed to be a great idea! A dip tank and chemicals!! I read several reviews, some great and some terrible. I bought the easiway tank and Supra one step stuff.
The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely..
It has been asked if you use a pressure washer, because by your description, you left out step four of Easiway's instructions
(btw) I am not a fan of the combo chems.
EasiStrip SUPRA One Step Ink Cleaner & Emulsion Remover Application:
Application for use in a dip tank:
Mix EasiStrip SUPRA at a ratio of up to 1:5 with water in a plastic tank.
Scrape excess ink from screen.
Place screen in dip tank.
Let soak in tank until the emulsion/film loosens from screen, usually just a couple of minutes.
High pressure rinse screen, then flood rinse.
If stubborn stains remain, apply an EasiWay Systems, Inc. approved stain remover, scrub and rinse.
btw, you are not the first to bring up the idea of using a new screen each time. One additional plus would be that your screens would probably retain the little tension that they started with.
For most of us though, even without dip tanks, the additional $20 or so for each screen can not come close to the time/cost of cleaning and reclaiming even only five in an hour.
-
something I missed in your original post too:
"The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.."
you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank... that'll KILL your dip tank chemical really fast. you just want to soften it so it rinses out easily.
-
I tested a bunch a few months ago when I setup my tank and I have hit 25 screens an hour on a few session doing the following:
Step 0:
Before reclaiming I always do the following to save time, mess, etc. Card ink off on press when finishing a job. Be sure to clear the ink from the open areas of your stencil BEFORE carding, and you should only have to card around the outside of your screen, and much of the residual ink will be over your tape. I usually either don't flood after the final shirt, or grab a test shirt and do a hard print stroke to clear everything. Take the screen off press and immediately detape and stack for cleaning. I find that carding on press is easy since the screen is being held and you have one hand to hold the ink container over the screen and the other to card with. Should take no time at all to detape assuming you are overlapping tape and using something that doesnt shred when you remove it.
Step 1: Put screens in dip tank. I am also using Supra and love it. I can fit four at a time under my hold down thingy with room to load new screens on one side and take soaked screens out the other. During the first "batch" I do something else for a few minutes, but then it's go time.
Step 2: Remove one screen from the tank. Set in washout booth with squeegee side away from you. Pressure wash side to side starting from the top on the fan setting. 95% of the emulsion and residual ink should be completely gone after about 4 seconds. If there are any thick drops of emulsion or ink that was stuck in taped registration marks that Supra didnt soften, I switch to a tighter spray and blast those out. Total time for this step is maybe 20-30 seconds including moving the screens and reholstering the pressure washer when done. No scrubbing. Just a note, the Supra does not dissolve the ink, but will soften the hell out of it and a pressure washer does the rest.
Step 3: Spray bottle of 701, squirt 4-6 quick sprays on the screen. VERY QUICKLY scrub left to right starting at the top, and then up and down. Just disperse the 701, don't really scrub. Total time, maybe 10-12 seconds.
Step 4: Flip screen around so squeegee side is facing you. Repeat the 701 spray and quick left/right up/down scrub, but follow with a more vigorous circular scrubbing. Total time, maybe 20 seconds.
Step 5: Flip screen back around, just do the vigorous circular scrub. Total time, maybe 10 seconds.
Step 6: Pressure wash on fan setting, just back and forth and up and down QUICKLY. Only goal is to remove the 701 as quickly as possible. Total time maybe 10 seconds.
Step 7: Use a normal hose nozzle to rinse. I pick the screen up and hold it up perpendicular to my chest, then spray from side to side from top to bottom on both sides of the screen without moving it, then flip it around and repeat. This gets all the nooks and crannies quickly and over-rinses in a sense. The final rinse should be on the shirt side of the screen and you should be able to see no bubbles from the 701 and the water should cleanly sheet off the screen. Total time 30 seconds max.
Step 8: rack the clean screen for drying and repeat above, unloading a screen and loading another each time.
The whole process ideally takes under 2 minutes per screen, but there are occasionally annoying screens, or you have to refill a spray bottle or whatever. I find I do the best job cleaning them if I take my time and average about 16-20 screens an hour, with lots of time for checking to make sure each step is done properly and doing the occasional stretch or rinsing off the back of the booth to prevent backsplash of ink/chems.
-
something I missed in your original post too:
"The first three screens I did, I just lightly carded the ink off and removed the tape. I left the screens in the tank for 20 minutes and when I removed them all the emulsion was GONE, but NOT the ink entirely.."
you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank... that'll KILL your dip tank chemical really fast. you just want to soften it so it rinses out easily.
That's one of the reasons that the instructions say "a couple of minutes"
-
I am actually thinking about buying a new screen for every job and chucking it in a pile for craigslist when I am done. That seems more efficient than spending 5 hours cleaning and prepping them.
Perhaps I am terribly mistaken here and need to understand how to do things correctly. Do you guys have any advice for me? I really hate cleaning all these damn screens. Its like I am a dishwasher in some seedy cafe somewhere....
As always thank you for your time and advice!
I see no mention of a pressure washer ??
It's the first step to getting screens cleaned quickly and thoroughly.
-
I have a much looser process:
- Card ink out of screen
- Detape
- Dip (3-10minutes max - based on number of screens in the tank and last one out of the tank but you don't want the emulsion to come off in the tank)
- Spray out from shirt side
- Flip and spray squeegee side
- Spritz on 701 and scrub squeegee side
- Flip and scrub shirt side
- Spray out top to bottom shirt side including frame edges
- Flip and spray top to bottom sqeegee side including frame edges
- Using two hands grab the frame at 9 & 3 o'clock and lean somewhere to dry (don't grab the top of the screen because your hands won't be as clean as the screen and any residual funk will mix with the wet frame and drip/run down the mesh)
If the screen was a white screen sometimes I'll have to use my "dirty scrub pad" and hit it with 701 on both sides before the "clean scrub pad" 701 rinse in step 6.
-
Yes I do have a pressure washer.
If I do it correctly as the instructions say to..I still have to scrub. It IS easier than before...less scrubbing, but I am still scrubbing.
I card off all ink
remove tape
wipe as much ink off as possible
toss in the tank for 20 minutes
remove from tank and pressure wash
At this point there are still areas with small amounts of ink AND speckles of OTHER screens ink on the screen :(
The image area still has light ink too.
Apply ink degradant and SCRUB
High pressure rinse
REPEAT
REPEAT
Apply dehazer
High pressure rinse
Blow out with compressed air and stack
Each one seems top take about 10-20 minutes
I just checked Mclogans and I can get a 225 mesh wood framed 19x22 screen for $15.99
Being so close to Mexico, I bet I can get them for half that if I search a little
So lets just say $10.00 a screen...
Almost makes sense to me to toss them or sell them after the job for $1.00 each on craigslist. The time saved for me at this point would be huge. I value my own time at a minimum of $20.00 hour so just in labor last night I spent $100.00 cleaning screens. Then theres the chemicals which are very nasty and they are expensive. Then finally the MESS!
Hmm. I dont know. :(
-
Yes I do have a pressure washer.
If I do it correctly as the instructions say to..I still have to scrub. It IS easier than before...less scrubbing, but I am still scrubbing.
I card off all ink
remove tape
wipe as much ink off as possible
toss in the tank for 20 minutes
remove from tank and pressure wash
At this point there are still areas with small amounts of ink AND speckles of OTHER screens ink on the screen :(
The image area still has light ink too.
Apply ink degradant and SCRUB
High pressure rinse
REPEAT
REPEAT
Apply dehazer
High pressure rinse
Blow out with compressed air and stack
Each one seems top take about 10-20 minutes
I just checked Mclogans and I can get a 225 mesh wood framed 19x22 screen for $15.99
Being so close to Mexico, I bet I can get them for half that if I search a little
So lets just say $10.00 a screen...
Almost makes sense to me to toss them or sell them after the job for $1.00 each on craigslist. The time saved for me at this point would be huge. I value my own time at a minimum of $20.00 hour so just in labor last night I spent $100.00 cleaning screens. Then theres the chemicals which are very nasty and they are expensive. Then finally the MESS!
Hmm. I dont know. :(
If you have:
- properly cured emulsion
- emulsion remover mixed to the correct ratio
- a pressure washer
You shouldn't even need to scrub.... it should literally wash right off.
Doing 20+ screens an hour is a cake walk and chems should run less than $.50/screen
.... plus... a wood screen and twenty minutes in a dip tank... not good
-
I am using aluminum screens. I would only buy wood if I were only going to use it once.
It just seems to me that with the dip tank and a pressure washer I should be able to drop a screen and then 5 minutes later blast it and be done.
I guess I am expecting too much.
-
I am using aluminum screens. I would only buy wood if I were only going to use it once.
It just seems to me that with the dip tank and a pressure washer I should be able to drop a screen and then 5 minutes later blast it and be done.
I guess I am expecting too much.
With a dip tank you should easily be able to do one screen in five minutes.
20 minutes in the tank is way way to long as mentioned. Look in to that for starters.
I also noticed in your step by step you added a second unnecessary step. After blasting the emulsion off you then use an ink degradent, scrub, blast then use a dehazer. Forget the ink degradent, once emulsion is off go right to dehazer and then your done.
-
Like has been said, dip tank and the right chems and five screens to clean, reclaim, dehaze and let dry should take only a few minutes. I'd be willing to bet that somewhere in your process there are small steps or things that are throwing you off that once figured out should make things very easy for you. without seeing and walking thru the process with you its hard to say what those are. and wood screens, please dont.
-
Will Dehazer get off all the ink that is on the screen still?
-
if its physical ink and not haze, that sounds like the cleaning isnt being done properly first. screens should be clean of ink before you move to dehaze.
-
Will Dehazer get off all the ink that is on the screen still?
As Nick asked, ink, or ink stains?
Can you snap and post a pic?
-
Its ink. not haze. I think I see the main problem here. I need to get my screens as ink free as I can after I do a job. They will clean up much easier that way. Of course I need to learn how to do that efficiently. Anyone willing to post a video showing post job clean up after doing say 50-60 shirts?
Also another issue...I have been ganging images on my screens and masking whats not being used at the moment. BUT what I notice is that after a job is done the ink is literally packed into the image that is not being used. Thats also the hard crap to wash out later.... How do I correctly mask an image off so that it can be used later and not get clogged up with ink? Or do I not gang images???
-
A lot of people have trouble getting ink and emulsion off with a diptank in one step. many use an ink degradent and rinse off 99% of all ink residue before putting the screen into a diptank. Some swear it's no problem to do the two steps together, but many say only emulsion removal in their diptanks. this is the main reason we haven't gone to a diptank, I don't see the investment paying off if it's just a slightly faster way to apply emulsion remover, but then we don't reclaim screens all day every day either....
Always remove tape right away from a screen, the plasticisers in ink can react with the adhesive of many tapes and harden up if left for too long.
If you want to use an image later, you're best off to put the tape on the squeegee side and not get ink into the image if possible
-
How do you do that if there is already ink on the screen?
-
Print Job
Scrape ink, dry wipe screen with old t-shirt
spray screen wash clean screen until it looks almost new
remove screen from press
part 2
spray both sides with emulsion remover
wait 30 -60 seconds...power spray the stencil away
squirt ink degradent on mesh, scrub both sides with scratch pad, power spray mesh
spray on simple green, lightly scrub with scratchy pads, power spray mesh
part 2 takes 6 min per screen
wet vac excess water, put into screen room to dry
scratch pads are the ones sold by screen printing supply
If you live near Indy, come by for a lesson or two
-
I was skeptical of the two part process of Supra and 701...until I started doing it. You do not need to deink before the tank if you properly card off the ink, AND are doing a print stroke to get the residual ink out of the image area before cleaning. Without scrubbing or wiping anything, there should be very little ink left.
I use ultimate clean up cards, but any print shop can cut you huge amounts of heavy stock with aqueous coating for dirt cheap. When you card the ink off, there really should be nothing left but a slight discoloration on the emulsion. If you are leaving big globs of ink, you're not carding off well enough. I quickly get off the bulk, then go back and forth with some pressure and really scrape the remaining ink. Get it into one glob, then remove, and one final quick swipe usually leaves almost nothing on the screen.
The supra and pressure washer should leave the screen with only a slight haze in the image area, if at all. Everything else should be gone after just a few swipes on the fan setting. The 701 will remove the haze and degrease in one. So that means one quick round of scrubbing instead of the 3 or 4 a lot of people do without the tank and proper chemical order.
You mentioned masking areas off. If you are not clearing ink from the image area you are masking off, then putting tape directly onto it, the adhesive will react with the ink and cement it in there. You should be doing a clearing stroke whenever you are done with an image so ink isnt sitting in the stencil, and when masking use some kind of paper over the image, then tape around the sides of the paper, no adhesive on the actual image.
It sounds like you just arent being careful about where ink is on the screen. Letting it sit for weeks with ink and tape will only make the issues worse.
-
So, do I tape off the images that are not needed, from the squeegee side after use and before flipping screen over to use the other image? Wont the squeegee get caught on the paper or card as I drag the flood ink over it for the other image?
I just cleaned 3 screens in 10 minutes as you guys directed!!!! :) The ink is the problem, Thanks for your advice! I would have kicked this screen printing thing to the curb if it were not for your experience and advice!
-
How close are you ganging images? You only need to flood/print the image area, not the entire screen. I would mask both sides of the other image honestly, or use some kind of press wash, just to be sure no residual ink gets on the next job.
-
generally speaking, its been a one color job with a breast 3.75 inch wide image and a full back 12 inches wide. I gang them as close together as I can towards the center of the screen. Usually I will mask off the chest image first on the shirt side of the screen. I will then print the back of the shirt. Then I wipe up the screen and mask off the back image and remove the card and tape off of the breast image. By this time the breast image is FULL of ink so I have to use screen opener to open it up. After I am done printing the chest, the back image is full of ink and completely clogged. I WAS putting the screen away like this after carding but NEVER again!
I guess I need to figure out how to mask effectively or use 2 screens..
-
generally speaking, its been a one color job with a breast 3.75 inch wide image and a full back 12 inches wide. I gang them as close together as I can towards the center of the screen. Usually I will mask off the chest image first on the shirt side of the screen. I will then print the back of the shirt. Then I wipe up the screen and mask off the back image and remove the card and tape off of the breast image. By this time the breast image is FULL of ink so I have to use screen opener to open it up. After I am done printing the chest, the back image is full of ink and completely clogged. I WAS putting the screen away like this after carding but NEVER again!
I guess I need to figure out how to mask effectively or use 2 screens..
Theres your problem right there!
A full back and a left chest rarely should fit in one screen. In our shop basically all that gets ganged together is left chests. Either way you should not have two images so close that you interact with both while printing, there should be enough room between each that you can flood and print with out touching the other image.
-
Yeah...I was just trying to save screens and money but its not worth it in the end.
-
Your cleanup efficiency should speed up a ton when you stop leaving the flooded image areas sit for 2 weeks.
-
Yes I do have a pressure washer.
If I do it correctly as the instructions say to..I still have to scrub. It IS easier than before...less scrubbing, but I am still scrubbing.
Screen printing is a hard work, you'll have to put some manual labor in it.
There will be some scrubbing unless you hire someone to clean the screens.
There is scrubbing but it should not be that hard as you describe it.
I started few years ago and I pretty much went in with no experience. Research is a must. Talk to your suppliers, hopefully they know the stuff what they sell. Ask questions here.
Easiway 701 and 901 are great products for ink removal, Franmar Color Change is good for cleanup on the press.
For emulsion removal I use Easiway 500. Great stuff. Works great with Chromaline Chromablue emulsion I'm using.
Been doing this for 4 years and still do not have dip tank. Hate cleaning screens, but it has to be done.
In the end, if scrubbing is breaking point, there is always a DTG printer :)
-
Your cleanup efficiency should speed up a ton when you stop leaving the flooded image areas sit for 2 weeks.
That too!!!
-
Thanks everyone :) I LOVE THIS PLACE!!!!
-
You mentioned using screens only once.
I met a rep for a press manufacturer at an ISS show who printed on the side. He uses roller frames and uses Shur-loc panels for every job -- but only once, then resells the dirty ones. It eliminates any chemistry on the reclaim side of the process, necessitating only emulsion and a sink with a sprayer to "develop". It also gives him a tight, new screen every time. While Shur-loc panels aren't cheap, the time and chemistry savings, and for that matter eliminating much of an inventory of screen frames above the capacity of his press could actually make it cost effective. It worked for him, apparently. For myself, I get a hell of a lot of mileage out of Shur-loc panels and I dull the misery of reclaiming with copious amounts of "chemistry" of a barley-based nature.
-
Another thought for you- If you are buying your chemicals from a local supplier/rep MAKE them come out and show how to use the products if you feel it should be going faster or still have problems. If they want to keep your business or even a somewhat decent salesperson they should be out in a day or two to give you a demonstration....
-
Covered pretty well- practice makes perfect.
Your pressure washer is a very integral part of reclaiming.
Make sure it is a quality piece.
There are a ton of Youtube videos too.
-
Not to disagree, but I have been using the same $79 piece of crap pressure washer from Lowes for almost 4 years without issue. It is like $8 to get a full replacement warranty as well if it breaks. I know a few shops that have used the same machine and replaced them for "free" when they broke, but I haven't had to yet. It is 1500 psi and 1.3gpm. I leave it turned on all the time as well. I think I've only turned it off once or twice when moving my washout booth.
I personally couldnt justify spending hundreds of dollars on one unless maybe i was using it 8 hours a day and had experienced a series of failures on my cheapo unit.
-
I have a cheapo SUNJOE 1450 and it works fine so far as I can tell.
-
Im going to be testing a "new" panel frame similar to the Shurloc and the Trax frames next week. The panels, frame and tensioning tool are quite a bit cheaper and it may be the ticket if you want to get rid of reclaim totally. Ill report here when I get to play with the system next week.
-
1. We have found some inks react with the tape adheasive and make the ink harder to remove.
2. How far away is the nozzle of the pressure washer from the screen. If it's 12" away all the force of the water is gone by the time it reaches the screen, try getting it closer. We run about 3"-6" away.
3. Arasol screen openers on press alter the properties of emulsion and can cause problems removing it at reclaim.
We use a dip tank. Scrape the ink out, pull the tape off the sides between the screen and frame (leave the rest) and right into the dip tank. Comes out, power washed, degreaser, rinse and racked to dry. A steady 18-20 per hour.
The right combination of chemicals was the key for us.
Not to disagree with Inkman and in a perfect world it would be great only ganging left chests or pockets but with limited screens sometimes you have to do creative ganging. When you do gang use an old film to cover the unused image on the shirt side of the screen and tape around the film, just make sure the water proof side is away from the ink.
-
Not to disagree, but I have been using the same $79 piece of crap pressure washer from Lowes for almost 4 years without issue. It is like $8 to get a full replacement warranty as well if it breaks. I know a few shops that have used the same machine and replaced them for "free" when they broke, but I haven't had to yet. It is 1500 psi and 1.3gpm. I leave it turned on all the time as well. I think I've only turned it off once or twice when moving my washout booth.
I personally couldnt justify spending hundreds of dollars on one unless maybe i was using it 8 hours a day and had experienced a series of failures on my cheapo unit.
The brand of that pressure washer wouldn't happen to be Greenworks would it? I had one that lasted a year and a 1/2 and finally died after heavy use and I believe it was only 79 or 89 dollars. It died during reclaim so I rushed out to our small town store and bought 1 that cost $159 because we don't have a lowes in our town and it lasted a month and 1/2
-
When you do gang use an old film to cover the unused image on the shirt side of the screen and tape around the film, just make sure the water proof side is away from the ink.
AWESOME IDEA
-
We had a good run with some $50 clearance pressure washers at lowes. Dont remember the brand they were grey and black. Got like 1 year each out of them and I had 3 of them.
Then tried a couple that were 169 from Depot. Both leaked within 90 Days or so. Just bought a $700 buck unit from Northern tool. Rebuildable, all the lines look way beefy, and so far it seems great. Time will tell.
-
Not to disagree, but I have been using the same $79 piece of crap pressure washer from Lowes for almost 4 years without issue. It is like $8 to get a full replacement warranty as well if it breaks. I know a few shops that have used the same machine and replaced them for "free" when they broke, but I haven't had to yet. It is 1500 psi and 1.3gpm. I leave it turned on all the time as well. I think I've only turned it off once or twice when moving my washout booth.
I personally couldnt justify spending hundreds of dollars on one unless maybe i was using it 8 hours a day and had experienced a series of failures on my cheapo unit.
we bought a $600 or $700 unit from northern tool, because we were going through our home depot/lowes ones every 6 months. The Northern tool one had an incident once (because of our waterlines, which is now fixed), but hasn't had an issue. That was almost 4 years ago.
-
I think I see the main problem here. I need to get my screens as ink free as I can after I do a job. They will clean up much easier that way. Of course I need to learn how to do that efficiently.
Also another issue...I have been ganging images on my screens and masking whats not being used at the moment. BUT what I notice is that after a job is done the ink is literally packed into the image that is not being used. Thats also the hard crap to wash out later.... How do I correctly mask an image off so that it can be used later and not get clogged up with ink? Or do I not gang images???
I have a dip tank but yet to put it in use. I don't do enough printing right now and didn't want it just sitting there with the chemicals going weak.
I think from what everyone else is saying, you've got the idea of removing all the ink before trying to remove the emulsion.
I do it before leaving the press. I have a pallet, kind of a scavenger one, that I spin around and lay old newpapers on, pull the screen down and card off all the 'easy to get off' ink back into the container, including the squeegie.
Then I spray the screen down with Easiway 842 screen and ink wash and push it around a bit with the squeegie. Helps to loosen the ink on the squeegie too. Wipe the screen and squeegie off with paper towels using rubber gloves. If I still see some difficult ink in the image, I hit it with Cammie screen opener. That stuff pretty much gets any stubborn ink out. Yea for Carbon Tetracholoride, lol. Let the screen dry, take to the wash out booth, spray down with emulsion remover, scrub a bit and wash off. I do occasionally have to use my electric pressure washer at the sink, but not always.
This should not be so difficult as to cause sleepless nights, lol.
On the ganging, as long as we're not talking large images, I just cover (ink side) the image (overlapping edges) with the same rubber based wide tape used around the outside edges of the screen. That should leave very small lips if you even have to run over with the squeegie while printing.
Here's a tip. When you're covering an image, or even with the tape at the outside of the screens, whenever you get near the frame where no ink should end up, wrap about 3/4 inch of the tape under itself to make a "pull tab" Makes it so easy to remove later. I even do that for the tape when attaching film to the screen for exposure. I just hate having to pick and pick at the tape later trying to get a corner up, lol.
-
I'm sure the basic 110v pressure washer works for many, but having one like above
from Northern Tool (2500psi) has been a very reliable workhorse.
Used almost daily it has lasted for 10 years and no end in site.
-Keeps me out of the hardware store not having to go back and
buy more "fun stuff" than I should, she said. ;D
-
I have a gas one too, but decided to put a 1700 psi electric under the wash sink since I didn't want gas fumes in the work area. The unit got has an on-demand power on and does a nice job.
Technically if the ink does not lock into the emulsion due to underexposure, you really should not even have to use a pressure washer to reclaim. Am I right?
-
We went from a gas in our very small shop to the electric North Star in new building that
looks like a mini car engine- only like $695. It required a separate outlet 120v, but
it will take care of any blockage issue.
Yeah as we all know any one will work if chemical is used properly.
I'd say 1700 min to take care of the rare sticky messes. Some you can't see until
ink doesn't transfer as intended.
-
Technically if the ink does not lock into the emulsion due to underexposure, you really should not even have to use a pressure washer to reclaim. Am I right?
In a perfect world you're right I've sometimes done it without pressure but pressure certainly helps the job go easier and more guaranteed for better results
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I am the screen guy in my shop. All screens, all day, 40+ hrs a week. (I know some might shiver at the thought but I love it)
Here is the life of a typical screen in the shop, from coating to press to reclaim. Note: all shops are different, this is what works at the moment in our shop. Some of the products and conditions I inherited from the former pre-press guys, but most are the way I like to do things.
1) Coating. Right now we use Ulano QTX for most plastisol jobs and QT Discharge for wb and discharge inks. Works for now but I am always looking into other emulsions. QTX coats up nicely with a 1+2 pass with a deep scoop coater. I don't use a rounded edge as it offers little control on finer mesh counts. YMMV.
2) Screens are dried print side down in racks in a warm, clean room with very mild circulating air. (shop vacs and mops are my friends in here, and I use them regularly)
3) Carefully calculated exposures are done with a Olec AL53 and a large wall mounted vacuum frame. Sometimes up to 4 23x31 screens at once.
4) ALL screen exposures are calculated for screen mesh count, color and coating thickness.
5) Exposed screens are placed up to four at a time in a dip tank filled with clear water for soaking. Typically 3-6 minutes depending on stencil thickness.
6) Exposed image areas are washed out from the print side with a pressure washer dialed down to about half pressure and a fine tip 40 degree washer tip. The fine spray helps gently wash out detail areas.
- The pressure washer we use was purchased recently and is my favorite I've used in any shop, the AR 620 with TSS (auto start/stop) It has adjustable pressure up to 1900 PSI at 2 GPM and has a rebuild-able pump. Oil change takes 2 minutes every 200-300 hours of operation.
7) Freshly developed screens are quickly aired off with a compressed air nozzle if needed immediately and set in the sun to dry. (or back in the screen room on rainy days)
8) Inspected, taped and blocked out screens are sent to the presses.
9) Screens returning from the presses are de-taped and a careful and thorough scraping of excess ink is done on EVERY screen. (the press ops and assistants never, EVER remove enough ink) We try to remove as much ink as possible leaving only a very thin film. Best tool for this: a Hyde 4" joint knife.
10) WB and discharge ink is cleaned from screens immediately. We don't do much wb printing at all, so I usually just use Sprayway 32 to degrade the ink film before cleaning. Plastisol ink film is not typically cleaned from screens before the dip tank, unless it's metallics and shimmers - those screens are treated like they are radioactive and are carefully cleaned cause that sh1t gets everywhere. Screens are sorted to be shelved for later use or reclaimed. We reclaim probably 90% or more of the stencils, but frequently re-ordered designs get shelved.
11) Screens to be reclaimed go into the dip tank four at a time. We use two 37 gallon vertical tanks, one for clear water as mentioned above and one for reclaim. We use Easiway Supra in a 5:1 dilution.
12) I go through screens in the tank in a pull-one/add-one fashion. After adding four screens, waiting about five minutes, I pull the one nearest and add one to the back and go along until done.
13) We have a two-section washout sink, so all the reclaim screens go in one "dirty" side and the other side (which is back-lit) is used only for final rinse and for developing. This keeps the inky stuff isolated from the clean screens and/or new stencils.
14) Screens out of the dip tank get thoroughly pressure washed from the print side to remove all emulsion, and then another slower pass over the image areas to remove most of the ink film. I don't bother spraying both sides yet, it's not required and would be just an extra step at this point - see below...
15) Easiway 701 is applied to the mesh and frame on the print side, and then the mesh and frame on the squeegee side. I use a gong brush or heavy sponge, whichever is on hand.
16) I pressure wash the 701 off starting on the squeegee side that is now facing me (see how that worked? it's all about saving steps). I start in the inside corners first, removing any heavy ink stains or tape goop, and then start from the top down making straight sweeps across the screen. It's very much like spray painting, you cover each pass you make with 50% of your next pass to make sure you are getting even and thorough coverage. Be methodical and hit the entire mesh surface and frame, because you are cleaning everything off, even stuff you can't see. Flip and pressure wash the print side. DO NOT let the 701 dehazer dwell on the mesh long, or it can "set" some ink films and leave a permanent stain. It doesn't work any better leaving it on longer, it works pretty much immediately.
17) Final flood rinse both sides of the frame and mesh until the water sheets off the mesh evenly. Degreaser? Only on finer meshes and not always unless the screen had seem some major action before reclaim. 701 does and excellent job of de-haze and degreasing, as long as it's rinsed well.
Total reclaim time? About 3-5 minutes per screen, give or take depending on the ink mess and age of the stencil.
18) Dry vertically in a clean warm room, handling by the frame sides only. Don't grab the top of the frame after final rinse, especially with gloves because all the muck and contaminants on your gloves (trust me they are not clean) will run into the mesh as the screen dries. Don't stick a fan on the screens unless you are certain only pure filtered air will hit them, or you are inviting dust born pinholes in your stencils.
19) Back to step 1...
-
WOW, now that's a good post.:)
Murphy37
-
I basically followed Evo's advice when setting up my tank and it has worked flawlessly for me so far. Definitely a good post :)
-
We were very pleased to get Evo back!
And, also, I'm very pleased to see "Newbie" subjects like this because, as is evident from the participation, there is a lot to share and a lot to learn, learn and even help seasoned pros re-examine long time processes.
When things work right on a forum like this, by teaching, we learn.
-
Evo, Great post. 1 area of contention however;
18) Dry vertically in a clean warm room, handling by the frame sides only. Don't grab the top of the frame after final rinse, especially with gloves because all the muck and contaminants on your gloves (trust me they are not clean) will run into the mesh as the screen dries. Don't stick a fan on the screens unless you are certain only pure filtered air will hit them, or you are inviting dust born pinholes in your stencils.
You should always dry a wet screen mesh down horizontally. This way any chemistry not washed out that is usually stuck in the glue area on the frame will not drip down into your open area.
Again a well spoken post.
-
Wow Evo, that is an AWESOME post. I appreciate your typing prowess! (SP?) I think my fingers would fall off after all that!!! I have said it before and I will say it again. I am a member on alot of forums that are nowhere near as nice as this place. This forum is a rarity in kindness and information!!!
Yesterday I did two shirt runs of 30 shirts. I used the least amount of ink that I could get away with! :) After each run I cleaned all the ink off the screen and removed all tape. Then I took the screen over to the sink and sprayed it with ink degradant and scrubbed it front and back for 10 seconds or so, then rinsed. I then stacked the screens against the wall. All that is left on them is emulsion. Will these be OK to set for a week or 2?
Thank you!! everyone for answering my questions and for your willingness to share. :)
-
Wow Evo, that is an AWESOME post. I appreciate your typing prowess! (SP?) I think my fingers would fall off after all that!!! I have said it before and I will say it again. I am a member on alot of forums that are nowhere near as nice as this place. This forum is a rarity in kindness and information!!!
Yesterday I did two shirt runs of 30 shirts. I used the least amount of ink that I could get away with! :) After each run I cleaned all the ink off the screen and removed all tape. Then I took the screen over to the sink and sprayed it with ink degradant and scrubbed it front and back for 10 seconds or so, then rinsed. I then stacked the screens against the wall. All that is left on them is emulsion. Will these be OK to set for a week or 2?
Thank you!! everyone for answering my questions and for your willingness to share. :)
Those screens should be able to sit indefinitely.
btw, thanks for the kind words about the forum. We can't go around poaching members of other forums (though I do invite individuals occasionally), but satisfied folks like you can certainly help spread the word.
We really do want to be the "go to" place for all friendly screenprinters, embroiders, and artists.
-
Evo, Great post. 1 area of contention however;
18) Dry vertically in a clean warm room, handling by the frame sides only. Don't grab the top of the frame after final rinse, especially with gloves because all the muck and contaminants on your gloves (trust me they are not clean) will run into the mesh as the screen dries. Don't stick a fan on the screens unless you are certain only pure filtered air will hit them, or you are inviting dust born pinholes in your stencils.
You should always dry a wet screen mesh down horizontally. This way any chemistry not washed out that is usually stuck in the glue area on the frame will not drip down into your open area.
Again a well spoken post.
That is why I pay attention to the mesh AND frame in the reclaim process. The 701 will literally "sterilize" the entire screen if you are careful and thorough. The final rinse is not just on the mesh, but the entire screen. I have much better results with drying vertically and the screens dry faster. I've had mixed result drying horizontally and sometimes I get odd spots and muck in the center of the mesh, possibly hard water spots or who knows.
Thanks for the nice words. I'm here to get and give help. This is all not rocket science, but these processes are often a handed down affair.
Like I said up top though, all this works in my shop and in our situations. Time and experience (and mistakes) lead one to the correct path for their production environment.
-
Just wanted to report back. I am cleaning ink off immediately after use and its made a world of difference. Phew, thanks everyone. :0)
-
Evo, Great post. 1 area of contention however;
18) Dry vertically in a clean warm room, handling by the frame sides only. Don't grab the top of the frame after final rinse, especially with gloves because all the muck and contaminants on your gloves (trust me they are not clean) will run into the mesh as the screen dries. Don't stick a fan on the screens unless you are certain only pure filtered air will hit them, or you are inviting dust born pinholes in your stencils.
You should always dry a wet screen mesh down horizontally. This way any chemistry not washed out that is usually stuck in the glue area on the frame will not drip down into your open area.
Again a well spoken post.
That is why I pay attention to the mesh AND frame in the reclaim process. The 701 will literally "sterilize" the entire screen if you are careful and thorough. The final rinse is not just on the mesh, but the entire screen. I have much better results with drying vertically and the screens dry faster. I've had mixed result drying horizontally and sometimes I get odd spots and muck in the center of the mesh, possibly hard water spots or who knows.
Thanks for the nice words. I'm here to get and give help. This is all not rocket science, but these processes are often a handed down affair.
Like I said up top though, all this works in my shop and in our situations. Time and experience (and mistakes) lead one to the correct path for their production environment.
The "vertical" got my attention too, I've dried screens horizontally since I made my first in '75. To be sure, they were mostly dry before putting them in the racks for the window fans to blow over. We've had a screen dryer here that we picked up at an auction for a printed circuit shop, it holds about 30 manual frames, or 15 to 20 automatics, and the bars (shelves if you will) are indented in the middle so that any water not removed prior to putting it in the dryer will run off, since water seeks it's own level. It's probably about a 5° slant, not too serious, just enough to eliminate pooling. Great post Evo...
Steve
-
Great post Jason. And you're right about the Hyde knives. After trying just about everything we've finally
settled on those. One less thing to keep experimenting with, finally.