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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: jason-23 on May 14, 2014, 08:32:58 AM
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Somebody talk to me about plasti charge, how it works, who carries it, emulsion, printing multi colors, flashing??? I have a job coming up and it's for a body building group and thick ass plastisol isn't going to fly. Thanks in advance
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Union Ink makes one. Comes in a plain base and a white base. The activator is a powder. You mix your plastisol into the base roughly 50/50, then add the activator at about 6% by weight.
It's water-based, so you've gotta really stir up the stuff since you're essentially mixing water and oil.
Doesn't seem to dry particularly quickly in the screen during printing, but keep it flooded and scrape out and discard unused ink, then straight to the washout sink and work it over with your ink degradent.
Check and see if Tubelite has any in stock. It's where I bought mine.
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Also Wilflex and probably Rutland. Its a hybrid ink. Some colors not possible due to dilution. I consider it to be the red-headed step cousin of discharge. Good for those not comfortable with formulating DC colors.
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Ok cool thanks, question: do you need to flash between colors?
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Its a hybrid ink. Some colors not possible due to dilution.
Like red. In my experience with the stuff it turned all my colors pastel, then I shelved it.
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We use this quite a bit. The white is more of a off white, still good but not titanium white. The clear base to mix colors in 50/50 works well too, as some have already said some colors don't work as well, but I will say that if you have time to play with it a bit you can get some good colors ( reds ). Maybe try less of a 50/50 mix & less %ZFS;)
As far as flashing goes in my experience you don't need to but depending on what you have going on, or on top a quick one will do, NO NEED to bake it.
Murphy37
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Pastel everything for me. I only noticed that because I gave up on using it for a job that used fairly light colors and they were much brighter in plain plastisol. I had some other problem with it that I can't remember. I do recall that the base separated on me and I didn't know it for the first test. I just sort of assumed that ink bases stay homogenous, whoops! This was using the recommended MIXO series as well. Couldn't you just add a ton of curable reducer and achieve the same effect, so long as the ink is high pigment?
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This is not the best cell phone pic but this is a two color on black with plasticharge white & red(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/14/udu3u8at.jpg). This has been washed.
Murphy37
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This is the design I have to print minus the diamond plate background on black.
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This is not the best cell phone pic but this is a two color on black with plasticharge white & red
Murphy37
Both of those are plasticharge? Red and white? Or white base with regular red pastisol over the white? What ratio do you use if not 50/50? I never understood why the activator was supposed to be 6% based off the TOTAL weight of the 50/50 mix. Should it be 6% of only the pasticharge additive weight?
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No 6% of total volume
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Yes both of them are straight plasticharge. The white is more of a off-white not titanium white. When I get in the shop I'll look up the ratio.
Murphy37
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Pastel everything for me. I only noticed that because I gave up on using it for a job that used fairly light colors and they were much brighter in plain plastisol. I had some other problem with it that I can't remember. I do recall that the base separated on me and I didn't know it for the first test. I just sort of assumed that ink bases stay homogenous, whoops! This was using the recommended MIXO series as well. Couldn't you just add a ton of curable reducer and achieve the same effect, so long as the ink is high pigment?
Basically no. Curable reducer+ high pig do not= opaque. Also some HO plastisol inks will not work with the aqueous component but do make for some brightly colored cottage cheese.
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I guess I had better run some shirts for my shop with some plasticharge since I have a good part of a gallon left and looking at the examples here.
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Sorry crazy here, we're trying to get production done before the beer Olympics starts in our parking lot.
Try around 65/35 ratio & around %4-%3 ZFS
I would have to do some digging but its something like that.
Murphy37
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CCI has it also. Called P-Charge. Works good. I have some here and have run about 5 jobs with it. Its really not a option for me anymore since I do discharge. Discharge is easier. Never tried p-charge on royal blue does it work? Or does it have the same limitations as discharge???
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Same
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Pastel everything for me. I only noticed that because I gave up on using it for a job that used fairly light colors and they were much brighter in plain plastisol. I had some other problem with it that I can't remember. I do recall that the base separated on me and I didn't know it for the first test. I just sort of assumed that ink bases stay homogenous, whoops! This was using the recommended MIXO series as well. Couldn't you just add a ton of curable reducer and achieve the same effect, so long as the ink is high pigment?
Basically no. Curable reducer+ high pig do not= opaque. Also some HO plastisol inks will not work with the aqueous component but do make for some brightly colored cottage cheese.
Yes, we had the cottage cheese effect a couple of months ago, had that info verified here. Got some fresh plasti-charge and used a general purpose red, and the issue was solved. Ran 300 "2015 Seniors" t's for a local high school yesterday in Orange and White, looked great. Practice, practice, practice...
Steve
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did you put washing instructions on it or did you wash them prior to delivery?
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I have been looking at the CCI P-Charge... Good to hear some speak of it as an alternative to DC. I'm not real comfortable with mixing ink colors but it sounds most of you have perfected it. What is the cost of going all in on the DC? Can my printer figure out the mixing when I'm not around?
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I have been looking at the CCI P-Charge... Good to hear some speak of it as an alternative to DC. I'm not real comfortable with mixing ink colors but it sounds most of you have perfected it. What is the cost of going all in on the DC? Can my printer figure out the mixing when I'm not around?
You can get a mixing kit from CCI for less than $100. Its a gallon of base and 8 ounces of 14? colors to mix inks. The pigments will go a long way. I still have some of my original 8 ounce colors. Its not hard to mix the colors. You just need a good scale. Just don't try to mix too small of a patch of ink. I will not mix less than 300 grams of colors. Less then that and you have a really small window for error on mixing. Like less than a gram on some colors. Anyone can do it. It just takes more time then grabbing ink out of a bucket.
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I put washing info in with school stuff, with contract work its on them. I have been told after its gone through the dryer its good & that the dye in the shirt has more ZFS than the ink anyway.
Murphy37
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Notes from the Union Rep on Plasticharge -
Mesh between 156 and 180 - too low of a mesh will be too much ink content and will not let the oxidizing process complete properly leaving the print muted and not bright.
The Activator powder is the bleaching (oxidizing) agent. Suggested activator is 6% to 8% with 8% as the maximum.
Suggested dryer time is 90 seconds and the print should reach 320 for at least 75 seconds. Do not get the print temperature too hot at the exit point.
Multicolor discharge can be printed wet on wet, but some flashing may be required (possibly with more than 2 colors).
Excess pressure is not needed. The inside of the shirt should/should not show the oxidizing effect all the way through as if too much mix gets through the front fibers, it's possible to double print on the back in the dryer. The image should not bleed all the way through to the inside.
Union has 4 distinct Discharge products -
-Discharge Clear
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- by itself will leave a tan or khaki image since raw cotton is that color
-Clear Base
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for adding Waterbase inks
-Discharge White
________________
- Used for underbase or White printing. The white should be about as opaque as the Plasticharge White,
but could be a bit softer and sometimes a bit brighter.
-Plasticharge (white or base clear)
___________________________________
- White - White is white but to make less opaque, try 186 mesh or add discharge clear base to base down the White opacity for a lighter print.
- Clear can be mixed with Mixopake or Maxopake products, not Ultrasoft. Ultrasoft is not a discharge ink.
- For the mixing with Maxopake or Mixopake with clear base, the normal ratio is 50/50 (+ activator). The best Red is Maxopake Flag Red. Mixing a White would be the Maxopake PADM 1030 (1001 will work and is slightly less opaque-test-test). Since the normal mix is 50/50, to get a less opaque print, decrease the ink percent increasing the CLear base percent. It's possible to go all the way down to 10% ink and 90% discharge clear base.
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You can get a mixing kit from CCI for less than $100. Its a gallon of base and 8 ounces of 14? colors to mix inks. The pigments will go a long way. I still have some of my original 8 ounce colors. Its not hard to mix the colors. You just need a good scale. Just don't try to mix too small of a patch of ink. I will not mix less than 300 grams of colors. Less then that and you have a really small window for error on mixing. Like less than a gram on some colors. Anyone can do it. It just takes more time then grabbing ink out of a bucket.
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May have to give my rep a call and check into this, in my area they still like the bullet proof white and colors but I do see a change coming and I may be on the front side if I go ahead and get into it. Thanks for the reply and information
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did you put washing instructions on it or did you wash them prior to delivery?
Wash them before delivery? Um, no. As for instructions, cold water wash all done. At least that's how I do mine with no ill effects.
Steve
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I've had good luck once doing DC and poor luck so far with everything I've sampled on, Scott is right in our area they still like that bullet proof style print which I would like to get away from. Saves on ink and production time if I can ever get it right....
Darryl
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Darryl, I can't even find a distributor in our area, Screen Process said they quit carrying CCI a year ago....go figure. I sent CCI an email to see if they have someone else close to our area, we will see
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Tubelite, in Memphis and Florida carries CCI. www.tubelite.com (http://www.tubelite.com) 800-505-4900
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Magna has Plascharge. You can use a non-formaldehyde activator to avoid the residual formaldehyde issue or a conventional ZFS activator. This is unique to Magna Plascharge.
For those that do not know - these type of "hybrid" discharge products contain no binder - this no pigment can be added to these. Use straight as underbase, or blend 50/50 with plastisol for hybrid.
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We have had the Magna stuff for about two years and have gotten pour results with it. I pull it out every few weeks and try agin and fail every time. The only time it worked was red mix on black shirts.