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Artist => General Art Discussions => Topic started by: rmonks on August 14, 2011, 08:19:13 PM
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I think I have just about had it with some of my customers, I have a few customers that always want to see a design or two before they place an order, they usually do place the order by I have had a couple lately that I have provide the designs and I never hear back from them, i call they don't answer, and i even saw one of my designs on shirts that i thought I was going to be printing. I think I need to start telling them they need to place the order and then we will prepare designs. Just Bit#$ching.
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I require a $30.00 per hour fee for artwork, which is refunded when they actually place an order. Our art fees are bundled into our inclusive pricing per shirt. Unless you get some kind of deposit for it, you are just doing spec work, which isn't the way to go.
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no order no art...simple procedure in our office
sam
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Unless it's an obvious "tire kicker", sometimes I'll spend a few minutes creating a quick typography design and often times, I will mock-up the art or use their art on a mock-up and send it along with the invoice. Makes them pull the trigger faster when they see a visual representation of their shirt included with the invoice. The key is, if it's really not a big deal and I have time.
I used to get customer wanna-be's that would say something like "If I like your design, then I'll have you print them."
I stopped "auditioning" for print jobs a couple of years ago. Telling the customer that once payment is made, I can create the art and mock it up for them usually works and very few, if any, have not used me for that reason alone.
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"If I like your design, then I'll have you print them"
Fine. We can settle the shirts and printing later. What is your budget for design? I will need that now to get started.
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"If I like your design, then I'll have you print them"
Fine. We can settle the shirts and printing later. What is your budget for design? I will need that now to get started.
Yes!
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I think I have just about had it with some of my customers, I have a few customers that always want to see a design or two before they place an order, they usually do place the order by I have had a couple lately that I have provide the designs and I never hear back from them, i call they don't answer, and i even saw one of my designs on shirts that i thought I was going to be printing. I think I need to start telling them they need to place the order and then we will prepare designs. Just Bit#$ching.
Besides no freebies, low resolution jpgs, and then heavily watermarked proofs.
Also, make it quite clear on the invoice whether the client has the rights to the art or not.
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Money first then art.
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I do nothing, for nobody, before I am FULLY paid. Learned that a long time ago.
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No free art. Must have deposit... We're $60 per hour, and we try to tell them that it's running up with every change they make. We also try to get a better idea of what they want. As you know, some don't 'splain themselves well...
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we don't do anything without a deposit. If customer does not buy the shirts the art charge is $60.00. All our quotes are on paper or by e-mail they have to give me a deposit, any deposit. This I am told by a judge this is iron clad as commitment to an order or just the art fee and almost a guaranteed win in small claims court should it go that far.
we never do any work or art without a commitment to an order and handover of some cash. The theory is nobody parts with any cash unless they understand what they are buying into.
mooseman
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When customers come in our shop and say I won't to see your work first, we point them to a rack full of shirts we,ve printed already, then we say you can paid for art or you can place an order and paid half whichever you like. Like Brandt said learned that lesson many moons ago, you let free art out the door and thats' where it stays.
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I react a little differently when say a big Casino comes to me. repeat customer who will through cash at us... even they know they pay for the designed not used,
Just tell you customer " Sure!! I will do that as soon as you tell me which restaurant I go to that will fix five meals, let me try them all and pay for the one I like If I like it!"
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Good call on that one!
Actually, some customers do get some art before the order, but those customers also spend $50,000 a year with us, and I know they will order them.
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I give quote on art and job before I do art.... No more art for free to take to the place down the street or to send on internet.
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I am dealing with this right now. And from all people my dad, WHO STARTED THIS BUSINESS. He wants to see a printed sample for his church, they were concerned about a couple of things and he is pestering the piss out of me to set up the press for a 2 color print and do one shirt for him. Ridiculous.
Sheesh.
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Watermark or sign your previews.
Never send high res.
They want a good look, come on down ( or pay ).
Simple enuf.
;)
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The answer will depend on how much work you have......If you have lots of work you can have a policy that drives work away.....If you need work you need a policy that bring you work....
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I think everybody gets this a lot.
The public does not know how we produce shirts, (your dad should?), but in the past I have explained it this way:
Contractor wanted one sample to see placement, etc. I asked him if he would dig a foundation for my new house so I could see what it looked like, and then fill it in and I might build later.
I asked a glass company to put a new window in my building to see if I liked the view.
A landscaper was asked to put in a tie wall, I asked a pizza joint if I could sample all their flavors.
If explained in terms, nicely, that they can relate to, they seem to understand more.
I've yet to have a strip club ask for a sample, I've got some ideas!
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The answer will depend on how much work you have......If you have lots of work you can have a policy that drives work away.....If you need work you need a policy that bring you work....
That would make sense if you were one of 50 printers in the world and the world only needed 5 printers.
The intent behind what you say is true, but does not apply to every business model.
Disney for example, get get shirts printed anywhere. Most all printers would like to pick up Disney as a customer but to do business with them is far more difficult that one could imagine. First, they have many categories and areas to cover. They have probably 200 product buyers just in the division I am familiar with. If you want to work with the smaller buyers, they work with more printers than most. This is because the quantities are far less than most categories and the more experienced Disney printers know not to play with them. They eat all of your profits and actually cost you money to work with them simply because of the art.
All Disney buyers make you jump through hoops and go through multiple revision. Some times as many as five. This is because it cost them nothing. They have no idea how much is lost on revision, nor would that matter to them. Everyone wants to say they have Disney as a customer. The draw or carrot is that you do make money on the larger quantity orders. Everyone wants to eventually be one of those that gets a big order from one of those larger categories. Buyers have grown up on the idea (by previous printers) not charging for art that the art cost very little to nothing. So now, all new buyers have not experienced being charged for art. If they were now, they would not use you and would think that you don't know what you're doing.
On the flip side, Smaller company's like many of you know full well the value of the art and charge "something". Eventually, you get larger or more eager to please and pick up more big name accounts and you start sacrificing some of your normal charges. Most being art and screens. 9Thats another thing that the larger company's do not pay for. The also do not typically pay for "sampling charges". What happens most often is that the printer builds that into the normal cost of the orders (and is not that big of an impact on large quantities). Thats not as easy these days, since most larger company's are now ordering smaller but more frequently.
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The answer will depend on how much work you have......If you have lots of work you can have a policy that drives work away.....If you need work you need a policy that bring you work....
That really fits this industry's model. We often see newcomers slashing prices and offering freebies only to eventually realize that it wasn't profitable. I can't tell you how many calls and emails I get that end up with the potential client saying "really? the last guy I used didn't charge for art samples/revisions/press proofs or didn't charge extra for onesie and twosie fill-ins, or was just way cheaper in general"
You know where this is going.
I reply, 'well, why aren't you going back there?"
"oh, they have closed down"
This is a generalization and over simplification, but I suspect that more than one veteran out there sees the truth in this.
And back to your statement, Royster. I believe that there is also a segment out ther that will put more value in our time and product if they are forced to pay for it, not unlike Freud's theory of effective therapy. It has more perceived value, and is taken more seriously if it is actually paid for.
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The answer will depend on how much work you have......If you have lots of work you can have a policy that drives work away.....If you need work you need a policy that bring you work....
That really fits this industry's model. We often see newcomers slashing prices and offering freebies only to eventually realize that it wasn't profitable. I can't tell you how many calls and emails I get that end up with the potential client saying "really? the last guy I used didn't charge for art samples/revisions/press proofs or didn't charge extra for onesie and twosie fill-ins, or was just way cheaper in general"
You know where this is going.
I reply, 'well, why aren't you going back there?"
"oh, they have closed down"
This is a generalization and over simplification, but I suspect that more than one veteran out there sees the truth in this.
And back to your statement, Royster. I believe that there is also a segment out ther that will put more value in our time and product if they are forced to pay for it, not unlike Freud's theory of effective therapy. It has more perceived value, and is taken more seriously if it is actually paid for.
I couldn't agree more, we blow off people who think they should have the art first and pay later, if they like it. No free art or proofs here, period.
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I believe that there is also a segment out there that will put more value in our time and product if they are forced to pay for it, not unlike Freud's theory of effective therapy. It has more perceived value, and is taken more seriously if it is actually paid for.
It seems this one is a popular theory. I've said many times on the boards that my old high school art teacher once told me (in a nut shell) "if you charge very little for it, they will value it the same way". He past away just this June. He retired the year I graduated in 1986.
Robert (Bob) Lee Haddix, July 4, 1927 - June 25, 2011
I say, if its free, it's worth nothing unless it's a cherished gift with emotional and relational connection. So ask your self, you do have emotional and relational connections with this customer?