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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: StuJohnston on May 21, 2014, 04:24:01 PM
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I have been using the ryonet cms, which is supposed to be cci I guess and ran up against a problem today. I mixed a color that was just base, white and warm red and it didn't come out as close as I wanted so I thought I would wait a little while and stir it some more after my wrist was more ready. When I was about to print about hour or two later, I came back to it and it now has a little white that won't mix back in and it seems like it's sort of half will mix and the other half doesn't if that makes any sense.
This is with %15 pigment
%10 retarder
%4 agent
I have the same color from yesterday that is still mixed that hasn't separated. The only difference is that I am using a new bottle of white today.
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Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to bump for new info.
It looks like the problem that I had was with trying to dump it all in at the same time and then mix it. This time, I added the white to the base and stirred, then added red and stirred. Now it looks much closer to the color I am trying to hit and no separation. Now I am just worried that something I am going to add will cause it to gel up like the last batch anyway.
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You need to add the ZFS as the VERY LAST ingredient.
Once added, it acts as kind of a repellent to anything that is added after - except water.
So if you add color after you have added ZFS you will watch the color separate/ball up.
Makes for an interesting print....
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Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to bump for new info.
It looks like the problem that I had was with trying to dump it all in at the same time and then mix it. This time, I added the white to the base and stirred, then added red and stirred. Now it looks much closer to the color I am trying to hit and no separation. Now I am just worried that something I am going to add will cause it to gel up like the last batch anyway.
Always mix everything together well before adding the agent, then add the agent and mix again. In my experience, the separation only occurs if the agent is added before the other components have been mixed together. I learned the hard way too. :o
Best of luck with it.
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Like others said. Agent last. Mix only the agent in at that time. Don't add water with the agent. Another thing 10 percent retarded is a lot. That is one retarded ink.
You only have to mix for a min just enough to mix it in. Don't go too crazy
These are my steps
Base
Pigment load
Mix
Add modifyers. Water, retarder other binders
Mix
Add agent
Mix
Let stand 15 to 30 mins
Add water
Mix
Take to press....
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Like others said. Agent last. Mix only the agent in at that time. Don't add water with the agent. Another thing 10 percent retarded is a lot. That is one retarded ink.
You only have to mix for a min just enough to mix it in. Don't go too crazy
These are my steps
Base
Pigment load
Mix
Add modifyers. Water, retarder other binders
Mix
Add agent
Mix
Let stand 15 to 30 mins
Add water
Mix
Take to press....
Well my press is pretty retarded as well (it's slow ya'll) and it won't rest flooded, so I do what I can.
Thanks for all the replies, I managed to more or less guess at the procedure, then talked to Nick Woods from Ryonet and he gave me some pointers as well.
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Well my press is pretty retarded as well (it's slow ya'll) and it won't rest flooded, so I do what I can.
I don't print with my press in Waterbase mode. I also have never had any issues with CCI drying in the screen. I add retarder to inks with more than 10 percent pigment load. So that does help I am sure.
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I thought everything was going ok, but it's still doing it. Just to be safe, I even got new ZFS! It happened to me on a color that I was mixing that is mostly white pigment. Still, only about 9% of the 10% pigment load is white. What happens is that it sort of coagulates after adding the ZFS, even though I make sure to mix after each pigment. It happened right before my eyes this time, theres a milky liquid that won't mix in and there are little chunks of white pigment floating in the mixture. Is the "new" white pigment I just got actually old?
I am at my wits end right now.
The color is pms 635, does anyone think that I could hit this by adding a little process blue and a dot of black to some premix white? Maybe a combo of base and premix white?
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Are you using a drill to mix? If not, give it a whirl.
I know many mix WB by hand, but a drill really gets things going..
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Are you using a drill to mix? If not, give it a whirl.
I know many mix WB by hand, but a drill really gets things going..
I need to find a bit that would work. The weird thing is the coagulation. The ink just pulls away from the sides of the mixing cup where it would stick before adding ZFS. The other ink that I am using on this job doesn't have any white in it and it is working like a charm, no coagulation and it is flooding nice and smooth.
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Allen key in a pinch, but preferably get a piece of 1/8" stainless rod, chop and bend it into a spoon shape.
Easy to clean and won't ding your containers.
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Allen key in a pinch, but preferably get a piece of 1/8" stainless rod, chop and bend it into a spoon shape.
Easy to clean and won't ding your containers.
Whoa, I might even have some rod laying around! The last time I mixed ink with a drill was with a spade bit, works ok, but I would think that this would be a better solution.
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Are you using ryonet white pigment in your mix? If so that is the problem. It is CCI pigments and if the white sites it separates into pigmnet and the thick white slime and is worthless. At least the quart that I bought did. It is so thick that it is impossible to shake and mix it back up. So I tossed it. I use D-white instead. I usually mix it by eye but I think you use 50% of the weight it calls for. Works great for me that way. No mixing issues or printing issues on press from the d-white.
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I think I will see if I can squeak by with the old pigment. I managed to get a batch to work using it instead of the new stuff. If it goes to hell again, I'll have to try the 50% d-white.
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I think I will see if I can squeak by with the old pigment. I managed to get a batch to work using it instead of the new stuff. If it goes to hell again, I'll have to try the 50% d-white.
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So it is CCI white pigment? That's the problem. My first batch of white pigment worked great. It was really runny almost as runny as water. The quart I got was super thick. I honestly only used it in 2 mixes. I got thick almost worm like clumps in the ink. they were so thick they never mixed into the ink. Then when printing they got caught in the screen and was really hard to clean out. I messed up about 20 shirts out of a 50 shirt run. I almost lost the customer over it. I never touched the white pigment again. Don't get me wrong I think the CCI pigments are great. I have only had issues with the white and after I started using d-white for the pigment all my problems went away.
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Are you using 50% d-white as in 50% of how much white pigment or is it 50% of the total mix including base? I am also less a few shirts on an order due to this and even more shirts are a slightly different tone due to not all of the pigment mixing in.
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Are you using 50% d-white as in 50% of how much white pigment or is it 50% of the total mix including base? I am also less a few shirts on an order due to this and even more shirts are a slightly different tone due to not all of the pigment mixing in.
50% of the called for weight from the formula. If the formula calls for 100 grams of white pigment you do 50grams d-white
Anyone else do this also? Is it exactly 50 percent?
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I got lucky again with the old pigment. I will have to try the d-white thing on a personal project before going prime time with it. Though I would prefer to just have the stuff come out of that squeezy bottle the way it should. I noticed the batch number looks like a date and the new stuff if almost a year old. I am going to have a chat about this with ryonet, they should have newer stock than that.
The premix white has a similar kind of batch number and is only about three months old. I imagine they get a lot more call for premix white than the pigment.
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test it - but i normally double up on the formula --- if it calls for 100 grams of pigment - i do 200 grams of d white.