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screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: thnkling on May 27, 2014, 01:40:27 PM

Title: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 27, 2014, 01:40:27 PM
So I've never screen printed and have only done research about what I'm wanting to do. I want to screen print high density ink (grey/metallic) using this pattern http://grab.by/xery (http://grab.by/xery) on spandex/lycra. I can't seem to find a business that does a one off for this (doesn't make sense $$ wise obviously lol) so I'm trying to do a diy version. Does it have to be a specialty screen? I was thinking about getting one made for me: https://www.etsy.com/listing/157632795/standard-screen-printing-unit-with?ref=listing-13 (https://www.etsy.com/listing/157632795/standard-screen-printing-unit-with?ref=listing-13)

What are your thoughts? help a gal out :D
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 27, 2014, 04:37:12 PM
First off, welcome to the board, and the roller coaster we call screen printing.

A setup like you linked may work for flat stock, but will not be easy for shirts. Add to that the ink requirements may specify certain meshes and desired thickness of stencil (as well as material compatibility. Your needs fall way out of the "one size fits all" category.
Next, you will have to read the curing characteristics of your ink and figure a way to do that.

Besides a lot of headaches, a steep learning curve, your DIY may not be that much of a money saver. There are folks who print prototypes, it's just that they charge for them.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 28, 2014, 11:37:24 AM
Thanks for the tips Frog! Do you know of anyone who can do a one-off like this? Or is it just too much of a hassle for most people since it's such a pain in the butt? :D
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 28, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
Have you approached any shops in Atlanta? As I kinda' mentioned, there are folks who will do this as long as it meets their shop rates. Prototypes can be pricey, as a lot of the work in screen printing is in the set-up.

Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 28, 2014, 01:56:34 PM
I've called a few places around town and they either don't have the capabilities or it's not worth their time. :(
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: tonypep on May 28, 2014, 03:19:20 PM
Yes this will be hard. DIY real difficult if you have never printed. Thick stencil cap film 200-400 micron. More like mold injection.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 28, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
I'm willing to learn, if I can buy small amounts for testing and whatnot! Or even if someone can make me a screen (of course for $$) and I can buy the high density ink + stretch additive and do some test prints (I guess I would need to get a squeegee and other screenprinting things - is there a list somewhere on the forum?).
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: jvanick on May 28, 2014, 03:40:26 PM
To expose thick capillary film you'd need a "real" exposure unit... fluorescent units will not have the power to properly expose one of those screens. . You'd definitely be looking at a good investment.. to say nothing about learning how to screen print on an advanced level.

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Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: tonypep on May 28, 2014, 03:56:39 PM
Correct. IMO only a seasoned printer with fairly modern equipment is capable of pulling this off without a learning curve of months and some serious $$ for a "project". Best of luck but you'll need that and then some. Most auto shops will likely not want to take this on.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: jvanick on May 28, 2014, 04:42:51 PM
expanding on Tony's posting:

400mil capfilm is something like $40 a SHEET!!!! and you'll probably burn through at least several of them trying to figure out your correct exposure times... (and you definitely need to use a pressure washer to rinse them out)

plus, I've heard (no direct experience) that for the best results you want to use a high(er) tension screen, so you're probably looking at roller frames and a stretching setup === more $$$ for a beginner...
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 28, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Bottom line, this particular project, as a DIY, even with someone else making the screen is probably a no-go.

So, figure that, as you are probably starting to see,  it would have cost some real money to get everything you needed anyway, I have a few questions.

What would you pay for this prototype?

Then comes the question to printers out there, What would you charge?
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 28, 2014, 05:03:22 PM
Hoping to print enough yards to make a bodysuit on lycra. This pattern will be a 1 color (silver/grey) on black. I'm not exactly sure how to value the printed product, but it's for a costume I plan to wear to dragoncon in beginning of September this year.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Sbrem on May 28, 2014, 06:01:59 PM
I'm thinking this should cost you hundreds of dollars, not trying to put you off, but you don't realize what you're asking. I've been printing textiles since 1975, and I spent a number of nights and days getting it right (high density) only to find that nobody was willing to pay for it. Even if you did it DIY, how many hours/days do you want to spend trying to something you don't how to do? And have it not work? So, without the compensation, who wants to do it? I do wish you luck though. Maybe you could try somebody at a local college or trade school that has printing courses, and some students who would be willing to work on it for the experience...

Steve
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 28, 2014, 06:05:38 PM
...or maybe come up with a plan "B"
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: starchild on May 28, 2014, 06:08:48 PM
Hoping to print enough yards to make a bodysuit on lycra. This pattern will be a 1 color (silver/grey) on black. I'm not exactly sure how to value the printed product, but it's for a costume I plan to wear to dragoncon in beginning of September this year.

OK it's a costume.. 

You need an 86 mesh screen (wood is fine), a 400 microns thick capillary film,  a 65 duro squeegee and a used flash cure unit..

When you get the screen and cap film, take it to a local screen printer to prep and image for you.. That would entail you giving him the digital copy of the image, he would first degrease the screen and apply the cap film and put it to dry, then he would make a film positive out of your image and expose it onto the screen..

When you receive the imaged screen then you get busy printing.

First you will have to tape some spacers on the four corners of the print side of the screen to create an off contact high enough to clear the height of the HD ink.

Second... hmm.. it will be preferable to create the body suite and then print that way sewing and printing would be more manageable. The sewing because of the interference of the HD ink bellow the presser foot. As far as printing a yard of material you need to consider your screen size and squeegee length- do you intend to rest the screen spacers on areas you already printed?

When you've got all that figured out then you can begin to print and use your used flash  cure unit to print and cure sections at a time.


With this info you can break it down into your own detailed steps and ask more specific questions- like what size screen and squeegee, where to get it, what about working with the stretch additive, how high an offcontact for the screen spacers, how much u should spend on a used flash cure and how long to have it over the Lycra.... and so on...


Everyone here will be able to add their point of view to this now we know this is not a production thing.

I've watched a couple episodes of one of the con series and I appreciate the passion and that a lot of time and effort is spent.

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Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Printficient on May 29, 2014, 07:21:52 AM
You could try Screen Industry Art in Chattanooga.  Ask for Glen 423-332-6190
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: tonypep on May 29, 2014, 08:03:07 AM
I'm thinking this should cost you hundreds of dollars, not trying to put you off, but you don't realize what you're asking. I've been printing textiles since 1975, and I spent a number of nights and days getting it right (high density) only to find that nobody was willing to pay for it. Even if you did it DIY, how many hours/days do you want to spend trying to something you don't how to do? And have it not work? So, without the compensation, who wants to do it? I do wish you luck though. Maybe you could try somebody at a local college or trade school that has printing courses, and some students who would be willing to work on it for the experience...

Steve

Noteworthy: Many HD techniques fall under the "should you do it" category which some could argue is why they have pretty much faded away. The screens are costly and the ink is expensive and you typically use a lot of it. Goes back to whether retail or end user will pay for it. If not you have to absorb those $$$ which does not fit most business models.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Doug B on May 29, 2014, 08:12:09 AM
  I also have spent months of R&D on HD and have yet to print for a paying customer.
It was another fad that has faded (and very expensive to produce).
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: starchild on May 29, 2014, 10:45:44 AM
I think you guys missing the point.. This is to be a costume for dragoncon.. Hundreds and even thousands are spent designing a costume..

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Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Sbrem on May 29, 2014, 12:33:58 PM
I think you guys missing the point.. This is to be a costume for dragoncon.. Hundreds and even thousands are spent designing a costume..

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I think you made the best set of instructions, but I don't think anyone is missing the point; I think we all pointed out that it's a lot more difficult than a newbie realizes. Almost all gave some options to track down. I just think most of us aren't willing to do the job at all. That's why I recommended a school of sorts. I actually hope they can get it done, I just hope it's somewhere else, lol

Steve
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 29, 2014, 01:23:51 PM
Lol Steve...

Yea, some serious people spend tons of money. I've actually spent way more than I should because of techniques I'm not used to and wasting material. But it's all in the fun. I have a friend that's making me a 1mm cast acrylic stencil with this pattern. Maybe I can make a makeshift coarse screen and use the HD ink?
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 29, 2014, 02:41:23 PM
As I mentioned before read the curing needs of that particular ink. Most plastisol's need to reach between 290 and 310 all the way through the layer I do not think you will be able to fully cure the HD ink with anything makeshift


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Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 29, 2014, 02:46:04 PM
And blame the apostrophe on Tapatalk I don't see an option to modify


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Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: jvanick on May 29, 2014, 03:44:55 PM
not that I'd necessarily recommend doing it, but people have successfully cured plastisol in their home ovens...

*disclaimer... I've never tried this, and if you chose to do it, you may want to pick up a oven that you'll never use for food again... the plasticizers and other resins that cook off when curing plastisol can't be good for you to ingest.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on May 30, 2014, 03:18:51 PM
Hmm I thought I posted earlier but I guess it didn't go through, yay internet. So one of the ladies on Etsy, I talked to her and suggested the kinds of mesh and coating emulsion multiple times so it doesn't drip, etc.. And she said she could do it for $57 including shipping, yay! I'm going to try that and use a small frame and attempt to use a heat gun to cure it, I'm assuming it wont work but I want to give it a try. If not I'll find myself a flash dryer.

Yay fun times! Thanks so much for all your help everyone.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: Frog on May 30, 2014, 04:58:16 PM
Please keep us posted. In fact, a step by step of your experience could prove invaluable to others.
Title: Re: Newbie DIY High Density Screen?
Post by: thnkling on June 01, 2014, 11:27:50 AM
Will do! I've just submitted my order, sqweee! So hopefully I'll get my screen soon then I can print awayyy!! I'll let you all know how it goes.