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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Rockers on June 08, 2014, 10:32:48 PM
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2005 model. 6 colors 4 stations. The prints are not centered at all on 3 out of 4 print stations. This was like this already after we bought it but not as bad as it is now. On station 4 the print fall of the sleeve pallet by almost one centimeter. On the other 2 stations it`s not as bad they are maybe out by 3mm. Always to the right. Now the pallets are fairly level is there a way the pallet support arm might be out? Can this be fixed easily?
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Are the bearings on the reg. forks loose or is there play in the forks them self.
Murphy37
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We have found from arm to arm the boards are actually NOT centered on any of our M&R Presses both auto and manual. The variance is over 1/8 inch in one direction. This happens with both the M&R boards and the Action Engineering boards.
Also, lock/unlock/lock/repeat a board and watch it shift a bit ;)
This happens on our older press 12C 3-4 years old, 14C 1.5 years old, and a new (few months) 8/4 manual.
I am not aware how to make our boards actually center on the arms..... To where the center of the board is centered on the arm.....
So, you are not alone.
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Guess I didn't read the question very well. We see this on our presses too.
Murphy37
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This is keeping us from using all our sleeve pallets. At station 4 the print, if it exceeds an overall width of 9 cm, will fall of the pallet . That really does suck.
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look underneath the pallet when it is attached to the press....there you can see how much left to the right the pallet sets on the press....once you see which side it gravitates to more you can then unbolt the alignment clamp (with the rollers) and tap the aliment left or right.
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Thanks for the tip. Will have a look tomorrow and report back.
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We have found from arm to arm the boards are actually NOT centered on any of our M&R Presses both auto and manual. The variance is over 1/8 inch in one direction. This happens with both the M&R boards and the Action Engineering boards.
Also, lock/unlock/lock/repeat a board and watch it shift a bit ;)
This happens on our older press 12C 3-4 years old, 14C 1.5 years old, and a new (few months) 8/4 manual.
I am not aware how to make our boards actually center on the arms..... To where the center of the board is centered on the arm.....
So, you are not alone.
The arms can be centered but the statement that lock/unlock/lock shifts the image says something is out of spec more than pallet split. Feel free to contact me direct to discuss.
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This is keeping us from using all our sleeve pallets. At station 4 the print, if it exceeds an overall width of 9 cm, will fall of the pallet . That really does suck.
Who assembled your Chameleon?
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This is keeping us from using all our sleeve pallets. At station 4 the print, if it exceeds an overall width of 9 cm, will fall of the pallet . That really does suck.
Who assembled your Chameleon?
I did.
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This is keeping us from using all our sleeve pallets. At station 4 the print, if it exceeds an overall width of 9 cm, will fall of the pallet . That really does suck.
Who assembled your Chameleon?
I did.
I dont know the year we are discussing so I may make assumptions that are wrong. The earlier Chameleons had pins that must be installed on the arms before tightening the four bolts that hold them to the speed table. If yours is this make sure the numbered arms are in the right position, pins in, and then tighten the bolts. If you do not have guide pins make sure the arms are in the proper place by number and then you measure from the outermost pallet leveling bolt between arms and split them exactly. This should make all the pallets in the same position.
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This is keeping us from using all our sleeve pallets. At station 4 the print, if it exceeds an overall width of 9 cm, will fall of the pallet . That really does suck.
Who assembled your Chameleon?
I did.
I dont know the year we are discussing so I may make assumptions that are wrong. The earlier Chameleons had pins that must be installed on the arms before tightening the four bolts that hold them to the speed table. If yours is this make sure the numbered arms are in the right position, pins in, and then tighten the bolts. If you do not have guide pins make sure the arms are in the proper place by number and then you measure from the outermost pallet leveling bolt between arms and split them exactly. This should make all the pallets in the same position.
All of my pallets on my 8/8 chameleon do not set perfectly center of the arms....they are either off to the left or the right....the pallet guides, when looking underneath the pallet while on the arm, I can see the uneven gaps of the pallet guides....I called M&R about this thinking I could move the part of the arm that the pallet slides on....but those are stationary and cannot be moved......actually, you do not need to even look under the pallet when its on the arm....you can also remove the pallet and look down at the guide that the pallet slides on to as you stand over it....there you can see how off center that guide is. ..I have aligned all of my line up clamps (with the rollers) with the off set of how much the pallet is off center of that particular arm....now all of my images fall dead center of the pallet.
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Thanks for the info! I will check that out very soon!
That makes for..... 38 arms to double check :)
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Thanks for the info! I will check that out very soon!
That makes for..... 38 arms to double check :)
also..I have the tri loc....i noticed on all of my pallets, once on the arm, there is an ever so slight angle that has to be twisted out...meaning, when I slide my a pallet onto the arm, there is the slightest hair of play where i can twist it clockwise and counter clockwise....im talking a HAIR of play.....1/16th at the most....and i have to twist all of my pallets clockwise then clamp....this is majorly an OCD situation I know...hahaha ...but I know for a fact all of my pallets are dead center AND parallel with the arm the pallet is on.....i made a centerline down the entire pallet...put a stright edge on the line and the straight edge extended off the back of the pallet....stood over the back of the pallet and eyeballed the straight edge to the arm.....there, I was able to see the twist I had to make.
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Mark,
That is the "board shift" I was talking about! Your twist adjustment.
We have center lines down each board and I was checking today... One board was off by 1/4 inch to the right. Fun times.... and crooked to boot!
I have quite a bit of work coming up!
This has been a most informative post for me today.
Thanks for asking your question Rockers!
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Damn.... that trick for adjustment will work for a manual press....
But I just realized it does not work for an auto press.... I got all excited and missed that part.
So.
How do we center pallets to the arms on an Auto press? I have a Sportman 12c that is 4/5 years old and a Sportsman EXG 14c that is 1 1/2 years old.
The 1/4 inch off center happened on the 12c.....
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I bought a used 2006 sidewinder and the same thing. I marked all arms when I took press down when I purchased. I noticed a few month ago when I moved it they were stamped with numbers as well as the heads. I put them all back where the stamped numbers were and it very close now. I had to re calibrate press but it works so much better put together correctly.
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We have found from arm to arm the boards are actually NOT centered on any of our M&R Presses both auto and manual. The variance is over 1/8 inch in one direction. This happens with both the M&R boards and the Action Engineering boards.
Also, lock/unlock/lock/repeat a board and watch it shift a bit ;)
This happens on our older press 12C 3-4 years old, 14C 1.5 years old, and a new (few months) 8/4 manual.
I am not aware how to make our boards actually center on the arms..... To where the center of the board is centered on the arm.....
So, you are not alone.
Dont focus on getting the center of the board to the center of the arm....focus on getting the center of the line up clamp (with the rollers) center to the pallet....to do this:
FIRST: Get the twist out of the board as I mentioned in an ealier post...you need the pallet true/parallel to the arm.
SECOND: You need to have a frame in EXACT position and this can be achieved by zeroing out all of the registration knobs..and with the tri loc and an 23 x 31 aluminum frame (any frame would work but i have aluminum frames)...the tri loc puts the frame in a "TRUE" position in the press......put a centerline down the exact middle of the screen mesh..I used a finely sharpened lead pencil......drop this "true" screen down onto your pallet which has a center line down its exact middle.....if the two lines (lead pencil center line on screen & pallet center line) do not line up, then loosen the alignment clamp (with the rollers) and tap the alignment clamp with a rubber mallet in the direction it has to go,,,once lines match then tighten the alignment clamp.
THIRD: Lift up screen...swing the next pallet over...repeat from the top.
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Damn.... that trick for adjustment will work for a manual press....
But I just realized it does not work for an auto press.... I got all excited and missed that part.
So.
How do we center pallets to the arms on an Auto press? I have a Sportman 12c that is 4/5 years old and a Sportsman EXG 14c that is 1 1/2 years old.
The 1/4 inch off center happened on the 12c.....
you can measure the same way and adjust the arm without affecting the registration bearings. Send me an e-mail and I will see if I have written instructions on how to center the arms.
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We have found from arm to arm the boards are actually NOT centered on any of our M&R Presses both auto and manual. The variance is over 1/8 inch in one direction. This happens with both the M&R boards and the Action Engineering boards.
Also, lock/unlock/lock/repeat a board and watch it shift a bit ;)
This happens on our older press 12C 3-4 years old, 14C 1.5 years old, and a new (few months) 8/4 manual.
I am not aware how to make our boards actually center on the arms..... To where the center of the board is centered on the arm.....
So, you are not alone.
Dont focus on getting the center of the board to the center of the arm....focus on getting the center of the line up clamp (with the rollers) center to the pallet....to do this:
FIRST: Get the twist out of the board as I mentioned in an ealier post...you need the pallet true/parallel to the arm.
SECOND: You need to have a frame in EXACT position and this can be achieved by zeroing out all of the registration knobs..and with the tri loc and an 23 x 31 aluminum frame (any frame would work but i have aluminum frames)...the tri loc puts the frame in a "TRUE" position in the press......put a centerline down the exact middle of the screen mesh..I used a finely sharpened lead pencil......drop this "true" screen down onto your pallet which has a center line down its exact middle.....if the two lines (lead pencil center line on screen & pallet center line) do not line up, then loosen the alignment clamp (with the rollers) and tap the alignment clamp with a rubber mallet in the direction it has to go,,,once lines match then tighten the alignment clamp.
THIRD: Lift up screen...swing the next pallet over...repeat from the top.
What line up clamp are we all talking about, what rollers? Photos please. Ours is a 2005 Chameleon.
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When u drop the head down the bottom of the head slips into an alignment piece on the arm....its what aligns the head to the arm to keep the head stationary....it has 2 rollers on each side of it....each arm has one....you cant miss it.
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When u drop the head down the bottom of the head slips into an alignment piece on the arm....its what aligns the head to the arm to keep the head stationary....it has 2 rollers on each side of it....each arm has one....you cant miss it.
Oh the eccentric bearings you mean. Ok will look at those later
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Tried the bearings and failed. And by what the manual for the Chameleon says this is only for very minor adjustments. My images are out by 5mm on station 4.
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Maybe I over looked it in the thread but the reg gates and rollers have nothing to do with the image shift on the pallets.
Rockers your problem is if you have a 3 color design the reg stays in from pallet to pallet but the image moves where it lands on the pallet, in other words on one it might be 3mm from the right edge and on another 1mm from the right edge?
The gates adjust how the three colors would regester, again in other words if you had a large cross hair on three screen and wanted them to each land exactly on top of each other. Print red then black and last white and the black was off to the right you would adjust the gate bearings to move the black over to be dead nuts on to the other colors.
244 said it earlier measure from the center of the end pallet adjustment bolt to the next. This measurement between each of the four bolts should be the same. If not you have to loosen the pallet arms and move them until they are all equal. If you do this I would not touch arm one so you have a constant to go back to. In theory if you measure each arm and adverage the measurement this should be your target number. If for example the distance between 1&2 is 40cm and 2&3 is 44cm and 3&4 is 38cm and lastly 4&1 is 47cm there is the problem. The average is 42.25cm which would be your target number between any two pallet arms. Keep in mind +/- 1mm on this measurement should not be an issue at the end of the pallet arm and may equate to 0.005mm on the pallet shift. In a extreme case, maybe something got bent or damaged you may have to shim one side of the pallet arm to get them all equal.
Also keep on mind like mentioned above make sure everything is where it is supposed to be. Pallet arm one in location one same with the screen holders.
Autos are done basically the same way but IMO easier to check and adjust because you can use a print head to measure everything off of once they are set.
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Maybe I over looked it in the thread but the reg gates and rollers have nothing to do with the image shift on the pallets.
Rockers your problem is if you have a 3 color design the reg stays in from pallet to pallet but the image moves where it lands on the pallet, in other words on one it might be 3mm from the right edge and on another 1mm from the right edge?
The gates adjust how the three colors would regester, again in other words if you had a large cross hair on three screen and wanted them to each land exactly on top of each other. Print red then black and last white and the black was off to the right you would adjust the gate bearings to move the black over to be dead nuts on to the other colors.
244 said it earlier measure from the center of the end pallet adjustment bolt to the next. This measurement between each of the four bolts should be the same. If not you have to loosen the pallet arms and move them until they are all equal. If you do this I would not touch arm one so you have a constant to go back to. In theory if you measure each arm and adverage the measurement this should be your target number. If for example the distance between 1&2 is 40cm and 2&3 is 44cm and 3&4 is 38cm and lastly 4&1 is 47cm there is the problem. The average is 42.25cm which would be your target number between any two pallet arms. Keep in mind +/- 1mm on this measurement should not be an issue at the end of the pallet arm and may equate to 0.005mm on the pallet shift. In a extreme case, maybe something got bent or damaged you may have to shim one side of the pallet arm to get them all equal.
Also keep on mind like mentioned above make sure everything is where it is supposed to be. Pallet arm one in location one same with the screen holders.
Autos are done basically the same way but IMO easier to check and adjust because you can use a print head to measure everything off of once they are set.
What bolts are you talking about? The 4 bolts that hold the pallet support arm to the carousel assembly? There are some pins that make sure that everything is in the right position anyway so that can`t be the issue.
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Three bolts used to adjust the pallets on each arm, use the front one as your reference point. In relationship to the pallet it is the center. If the distance from pallet arm to pallet arm from that reference point is different like mentioned before that is the problem.
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Three bolts used to adjust the pallets on each arm, use the front one as your reference point. In relationship to the pallet it is the center. If the distance from pallet arm to pallet arm from that reference point is different like mentioned before that is the problem.
Got it. Cheers