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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Homer on August 16, 2011, 04:16:33 PM
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Finally - it took some trial and error but here it is. don't laugh at my welds , we have used this on multiple 5 color jobs, a few 3 color and many 2 color -we only have a 6 color gauntlet as of now. Registers like a dream! We only used the micros twice, and it was my error. . .so here's how it works. . .step one is create the seps, drop in the three targets you see up top -
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/Homer__/artwork.jpg)
now register those targets to the inverted targets I printed directly on the glass - might be hard to see, tape the positive to the glass, put in the screen and hit the three bump stops. those aluminum deals in the corner.
I actually have really small screw heads sticking out of the bump stops, so the screen is hitting a very small area, not the whole thing.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/Homer__/110815_004.jpg)
and then you put this on the press, hit the same stops and print! I see a few things I would change on the next one, I have to snad blast it and paint it up, super happy I made it.
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/Homer__/110815_001.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/Homer__/110815_002.jpg)
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Snad blasting? Holy crap, I thought that only existed in the movies!!
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Yes Homer, that's what I'm talking about. That's all there is to it, very good job man. I'm still working on our regi unit, version 3.0. I just need the pallet jig built. The place I was having cut my aluminum bailed out on me so I need to find another place to cut my aluminum and then I'll be in business again.
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Awesome!!!
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Those welds look better than any I have ever done :P
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Radness Homer.
Do you find that lining up each film onto the expo unit, cranking the unit on, burning, repeat is slower than if you could align the films off the unit?
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How did you affix the bump stops to the glass?
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Homer, that is pretty sweet. Is that built from an old clothes shopping rack?
I have been thinking about how to make one myself. It's a tough call. Carrier sheets are not the way to go for me, I would rather align them to a board and then put them on.
The bolt idea is really smart for the brackets, it allows you to make any adjustments needed.
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thanks fellas -
@ Alan -I can have that done for you. . .shipping may suck though.
@ Zoo -we have a safelight in the unit, so we pop that on, line up the films -it all takes about 5-10 seconds if you are really tweaking it. the slowest part is the vacuum. I tried the carrier sheet thing and it took too long for me. Too many steps, too much taping and room for error. this is as simple as simple gets.
@ Tpit - first I used HB banner tape to get them in position - it's like a 2 sided tape, and then I used JB weld. I put a screw in the angle exactly where I wanted to hit them frame, welded that in place and then cut the heads off and ground it smooth. I'll take a pic of the blanket drawn, no sharp edges at all.
@ Brad. . .I'll build you one if interested. The hardest one is the first one., I got that down pretty good. I bought a mig welder so I can go to town! It works with newmans and panel frames! pretty happy about that.
we also have taken the jig off the press and put it back on to continue registering a job to see how it works. not a problem in the world. . I was afraid that once you took it off the press, it would not be in the same spot again. I welded a stop on the bottom of the jig, right on the M&R bracket, so I can use any station to put the unit on. This saves time hunting for the platen with the pallet stop like Tri loc has. . .
I have a ton of square bar and angle, I may build another one and see if I can sell it. The only problem I have, I don't know how to make a macro so I can put reg marks in, I have to have a file on my desktop I copy and paste them into the seps file. . . I went with 3 targets on top so I can do crest images with out using a full sheet of film, if needed. . so far, it has saved us a ton of time, it's been 2 weeks or so. . .
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Really thats all you got?
;)
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I need to stop by and see this in person... would you weld me up a jig?
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Looks like ass... ;D
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Great job Homer. So in Corel do you not use symbols for your reg marks and other popular stuff like mockups?
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from a welder to a dabber.... That is what we call a Gorilla weld.....Big..Bad and Ugly!! I do like the concept. :D
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haha, you guys are asses. . .
no Lizzy -no fun reg marks. . plain and simple
the idea was to ditch carrier sheets, I can file my films away, pull them out and register right away. no need to re-register the design like most do with carrier sheets. . . gorilla haha. . .looks like a puddle of puke but it works, had to grind it like a prom date but it looks ok.
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Looks great Jay.Now share with people how much time a pre reggie system saves you vs how you used to do it? Whether it's a DIY or commercial, doesn't matter,just the time savings and/or increase in productivity.
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Did you weld the jig to the platen bracket, or screw it onto the bottom of the platen? Just curious.
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Nice one Homer :)
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I have to say Dave -bimmridder- gave me the brilliant idea of inverting the targets, huge help. Thanks Dave, I owe you a beer or 6.
I had to bolt a piece of steel onto the bottom of the platen, I sunk the bolt heads below the rubber -then welded the arm to that. Talk about a gorilla, it looks like a war zone under there, I'll get a pic.
The time savings in the past two weeks has been huge -absolutely huge. before, we would register the base or outline, print it, flash it and then hit all the remaining colors -do multiple test prints to get it dialed in. Now -like I said, we touched the micros twice. it doesn't sound like a big deal, but the micros on these older machines are not the best, so it turns into a big ordeal. I would leave the room, go back in a half hour to see how production is going and they are still doing test prints. That really stresses me out. Between this unit and another guy on the auto, our production is higher than ever. I have about 15-20 hours invested in it, and I'm the triloc is awesome, but I had a hard time parting with 2500.00 for something so simple.
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And something that has a continued consumables cost. I can register a job on the first try most times by hand. But that is me and I can't do all the setups.
I was thinking about making a jig that fit on each head, that way there would be no platen to change out, just slide the screens in and done.
That idea of inverting the reg marks is genius.
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...DIGGIN IT HOMER!!
...BUT, how do you keep the inverted regi from also burning into the screen? I notice its blue, but does it have NO effect on the exposure?
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Oh, I didn't even think of that. I wonder if it's transparent enough.
Homer, how much would you charge me to build one of them? I have the skills and the welder, but I have literally ZERO time right now. I've been working 70-80 hours a week and it's killing me.
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MR T- it does burn into the screen but it doesn't matter. piece of masking tape fixes it. You wouldn't need the reg marks anymore, once the screen is exposed, we simply block them out. . . .
Brad - let me see what things look like -we are beyond swamped too - I may be able to get something going if you have an old platen kicking around. . .
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This could save us so much time. And then to eliminate taping screens as well would be a huge time saver. Holy cow...I have some ideas rattling around right now.
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NICE JOB!!
I've used the high placed 3-wide-1 way-low reg marks for the last 10 yrs, the idea is to get the regies out of the squeegee drop area, this way, even if you 'forget' to tape or blockout the back of the screen, a reg mark will never print on the shirt. Just as jay has done with the reg marks on the glass, you can't miss the mark as long as it's lined up... that's it. Line it up right, dial in your reg frame and you'll never touch a micro again.
You use a few more inches of film in the process but who cares, the time saved in set up pays for any extra film you may have used. The mind set knowing that a reg mark will never again 'accidentally' print on a shirt and any new guy who runs your press can set it just as easy and quick as the last. This is golden if you do discharge.. you can't blow out a discharge reg mark on 45 shirts.
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Homer did you burn a screen with the inverted reg marks bump up to the stops and print the glass from there?
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Nice Job
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Homer did you burn a screen with the inverted reg marks bump up to the stops and print the glass from there?
yeah, I made a positive with the inverted targets, mapped it out where I wanted them to be on the screen, shot it, put it back in the bump stop, taped the screen so it didn't move, then printed directly on the glass with some Color FX glass ink. it's really simple in concept. I wanted to mainly avoid carrier sheets - now the next step is making it quick release so I don't have to remove a platen. I think on Brad's, we are going to try that.
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Just curious does it make sense to have some type of springs keeping the screen tight to the stops while the blanket compresses?
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it would, but it's just another project and dammit -we don't have the time right now. We just hold the screen, pull the blanket down and hope for the best haha - no issues with that yet, but I do know the vacuum can make the screen shift, it is a problem we are working out. . .I need a solid week off to really think about this concept and fine tune it.
I got to thinking -about Zoo's deal and not putting reg marks on the glass. What if there were, let's say 4 screen sizes in the shop. Could you make 4 different positives with the reg marks made for each size, put that positive on the glass, and hit the same 3 permanent bump stops? Nothing would be on the glass except the stops. you can have a hole punch system for the set up sheet/reg mark positive so you can choose the size you want, lay it down and go to town. . .just thinking here.
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it would, but it's just another project and dammit -we don't have the time right now. We just hold the screen, pull the blanket down and hope for the best haha - no issues with that yet, but I do know the vacuum can make the screen shift, it is a problem we are working out. . .I need a solid week off to really think about this concept and fine tune it.
I got to thinking -about Zoo's deal and not putting reg marks on the glass. What if there were, let's say 4 screen sizes in the shop. Could you make 4 different positives with the reg marks made for each size, put that positive on the glass, and hit the same 3 permanent bump stops? Nothing would be on the glass except the stops. you can have a hole punch system for the set up sheet/reg mark positive so you can choose the size you want, lay it down and go to town. . .just thinking here.
That's what I was saying in the other thread. It's just like tri loc except film is the carrier. The other option for those who can't have anything on the glass would be just like pin loc but again, film is the carrier. In both cases you rely on the output device and well-punched holes for alignment rather than reg marks. As stoked as I am about this concept, I'm wondering why no ones done it yet...
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it would, but it's just another project and dammit -we don't have the time right now. We just hold the screen, pull the blanket down and hope for the best haha - no issues with that yet, but I do know the vacuum can make the screen shift, it is a problem we are working out. . .I need a solid week off to really think about this concept and fine tune it.
I got to thinking -about Zoo's deal and not putting reg marks on the glass. What if there were, let's say 4 screen sizes in the shop. Could you make 4 different positives with the reg marks made for each size, put that positive on the glass, and hit the same 3 permanent bump stops? Nothing would be on the glass except the stops. you can have a hole punch system for the set up sheet/reg mark positive so you can choose the size you want, lay it down and go to town. . .just thinking here.
That's what I was saying in the other thread. It's just like tri loc except film is the carrier. The other option for those who can't have anything on the glass would be just like pin loc but again, film is the carrier. In both cases you rely on the output device and well-punched holes for alignment rather than reg marks. As stoked as I am about this concept, I'm wondering why no ones done it yet...
Been thinking about what you said, and I'm not sure I would like the punched holes in the film. The printer could partially misfeed and a shift of only 1/64 inch would throw it off while I feel more trusting in the "once it's printing, the registrations will correspond to the art for all films" frame of mind. Lasers, not considered.
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I feel more trusting in the "once it's printing, the registrations will correspond to the art for all films" frame of mind.
So if we already trust in the inkjet to make films that can be registered, why not trust it to go another step?
Here's the thing, if it is kicked out a 64th of an inch or feeds really crooked you can know most of this with a quick inspection on the light table prior to aligning them on the screens. Just stack up the punched films one at a time and check it out. It's a good habit to have anyway.
Now if it's off a real minor amount you may not catch this on the light table but then again, you may not catch it in the finished print (and nor will you customer) either which is just fine sometimes and not a good thing at all other times. So don't forget you can still use reg. marks and align and tape them yourself to "carrier sheets" (your own punched film) for 4cp jobs and the like where a tiny shift is going to throw colors off and drive you nuts. The added security is there if you need it during pre-press. In fact, you could use both the pins and the reg marks and then do your final tweaking on-press with the micros which would probably yield a more accurate print run anyhow.
I think this would only be a system for those who aren't expecting every run to be dead on when you hit the screen clamps. To me, that's a little pie-in-the-sky, there's just do many variables that have nothing to do with the pre-press film alignment once you get on press. Really, once that screen makes it to press there's nothing but a slew of variables trying to frustrate that perfect registration- press calibration, clamp pressure, squeegee pressure, stroke length and speed, blade angle, size and type, mesh count, thread diameter and tension as it relates to ink rheology and let's not forget the substrate.
We all know that ours is a game of controlling variables but I say don't be a control freak about it, let what's going to happen do it's thing and just keep on your toes. So my goal is to make everything that happens prior to that on-press tweaking as rapid and error-proof as possible. Besides a CTS system I don't think it could get a whole lot faster than this.
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there's just do many variables that have nothing to do with the pre-press film alignment once you get on press. Really, once that screen makes it to press there's nothing but a slew of variables trying to frustrate that perfect registration- press calibration, clamp pressure, squeegee pressure, stroke length and speed, blade angle, size and type, mesh count, thread diameter and tension as it relates to ink rheology and let's not forget the substrate.
Dayum, I was looking forward to making one too as the cure-all. You've almost bursts my bubble.
Regarding the printer. I do feel more comfortable that one the printing starts, that the image and registrations are all in the right spot, but you raise some really good points with the light table pre-registration.