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Artist => Copyrights/Trade Marks info/questions => Topic started by: whitewater on June 19, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
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is this infringement?
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i am no lawyer, but it looks like it to me, and Harley isn't a company that takes that lightly
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Well if it isn't, its definitely lazy design and a rip.
Regardless, I would advise against ripping a design off any company the size of HD, whether its part of their official logo or not. Is this something a customer gave you to print?
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Yes.
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http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Highway-Robbery-Artists-Copyrights/dp/0201883937 (http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Highway-Robbery-Artists-Copyrights/dp/0201883937)
This is a good book about copyright. There is some examples in there that went to court that the finished art hardly even resembled the art they "copied" and they lost.
Copying is braking the law. If you don't have written permission, designed it yourself from scratch or paid some one to design it and they gave you full rights then you can't use it.
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Make sure that your finger is on the trigger and the safety off when you break the bad news to this guy.
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Leave it to the gun nuts...
HD don't play.
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Is there such a thing now days as original art anymore ??? it's just so much stuff out here now a new idea is just about impossible. I know I'm just spouting off, but the art looks very close and HD needs all the money they can get.
Darryl
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In the 80s, Harley Davidson attempted to sue tattoo shops in CA for tattooing their logo on people. They're not exactly the type of company I would roll the dice with. And to answer your question, yes it is.
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In the 80s, Harley Davidson attempted to sue tattoo shops in CA for tattooing their logo on people. They're not exactly the type of company I would roll the dice with. And to answer your question, yes it is.
As far as I know, that is not true.... Sometime in the past HD has stated they have never sued an individual "tattoo artist".......It is only when you use "mechanical means" (computer, screen printer, etc.) to re-produce something does it become infringement.....IMO.....
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Royster, even that may not be the full story. They may have originally "tried" to sue individual artist or Tatto shops but can't actually do so.
When you (an artist) creates or even uses intellectual property for (one thing), it falls under an "artist's interpretation thing.
Think Disney and airbrushed tees or HD Tattoos.
Their was a pretty. Big story about Tiger Woods's lawyers going after a guy that made individual paintings, (each unique). They could not get him for this reason.
I, for example can do paintings of Micky Mouse and sell each one on my own. No ray lattices to Disney.
I know this as fact. It's not mass production when each is different.
Now, each one of those big names can at times be guilty of referencing someone else's art. There's is no real "fine line" between copying referencing.
In the legal world "I hear" the word " inspiration" is the "in word" to use.
You can gather reference designs "for inspiration" to create another, but you cannot use a specific design as reference only. It's one of those legal things they use to get what they want. Those gray areas.
Loved by lawyer areas.
For printing, this designs is (way too close). Way.
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Email these guys. They will tell you the correct answer.
trademarkenforcement@harley-davidson.com
Let us know what they say.
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http://trademarkblog.ca/punitive-damages-trademark-and-copyright-infringement/ (http://trademarkblog.ca/punitive-damages-trademark-and-copyright-infringement/)
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=hdlegal (http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=hdlegal)
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Yes, this is obvious infringement. This doesn't just resemble the source, it matches exactly.
They will lose if they fight.
And Dan's right... tattoos are considered fine art. Fine art is protected as free speech (until it's mass-produced as a product embellishment).
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Nah........ :)
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So what about 'flash books'? Can't have it in a mechanically reproduced book to pick out, but you can get it tattooed? ;)
We used to print for a guy who got served several notices for putting the fact that he worked on HD stuff on his shirts--spelled out exactly as such
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They huffed and puffed, he stood his ground and told them he'd see them in court. Never heard from them again.
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Looks legit....
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Sorry just getting back to you guys on this..I was out of town on my golf vacation.
My new customer paid a graphic artist for this. The customer asked the artist to design something. The customer is not a motorcyclist in any way. Had no idea until he read these comments and immediately took it down and refunded the peoples money and apologized instantly.
He confronted the artist and the artist started being a wicked ass to him. Telling him he does not know how anything works and started giving him a hard time. Pretty sure it ruined their relationship.
If you have an artist design something how do you know if its ripped off? Like this customer is not a motorcyclist and had no idea.. You sort of have to trust that artist.
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I suppose that one could have a disclaimer signed by the artist, attesting to originality and/or no copyright rip-offs, but that wouldn't change the situation if a cease and desist order, or order to destroy merchandise was received.
From the artist's perspective, he may have well thought that not only was the logo changed "sufficiently" (never the case as there is no percentage rule like some think), but also was appealing to a like-minded crowd with the reference. Sorry it got nasty.
If nasty enough, a copy of the design along with the artist's contact info may be appreciated by Harley in case they ever need any design work. ;)
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I think working with credible and reputable artist who actually cares and knows the law is your best bet. It is a reason why we have to pay more for some things, the guy that put in the time to learn the rules will cost more, but it also comes with a piece of mind (to some extent).
pierre
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I think working with credible and reputable artist who actually cares and knows the law is your best bet. It is a reason why we have to pay more for some things, the guy that put in the time to learn the rules will cost more, but it also comes with a piece of mind (to some extent).
pierre
Right. This obviously wasn't a credible or reputable artist. Inspiration is one thing, outright ripping is another. It's a swindle... it shouldn't be so hard to come up with your own eagle motif.
Now here's another thing that could have happened... both this artist and the artist under contract for HD used a piece of clip art. If that's the case, then there's no case, because clips usually have a limited usage agreement and HD would have no claim to it unless they bought out the rights to the clip art from the license holder.
Or, the same artist did both designs and retained the right to that image for re-use later. A common thing, but probably not an agreement HD would have signed on to. They typically buy out all rights to images they use. (And they don't always pay top dollar for them either, but I digress.)
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So what about 'flash books'? Can't have it in a mechanically reproduced book to pick out, but you can get it tattooed? ;)
Flash books work like clip art. There are limited usage requirements... the image is ultimately owned by the book's publisher, your use of the image, after you pay for the license, is subject to the limitations listed in the license agreement.
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I think working with credible and reputable artist who actually cares and knows the law is your best bet. It is a reason why we have to pay more for some things, the guy that put in the time to learn the rules will cost more, but it also comes with a piece of mind (to some extent).
pierre
Right. This obviously wasn't a credible or reputable artist. Inspiration is one thing, outright ripping is another. It's a swindle... it shouldn't be so hard to come up with your own eagle motif.
Now here's another thing that could have happened... both this artist and the artist under contract for HD used a piece of clip art. If that's the case, then there's no case, because clips usually have a limited usage agreement and HD would have no claim to it unless they bought out the rights to the clip art from the license holder.
Or, the same artist did both designs and retained the right to that image for re-use later. A common thing, but probably not an agreement HD would have signed on to. They typically buy out all rights to images they use. (And they don't always pay top dollar for them either, but I digress.)
My money is still on lumping bikers and gun folks together, and assuming that they would dig the connection.
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I dunno Andy, that just looks like lazy to me.
Didn't even give 'em the gotdamnt common courtesy of a horizontal flip.