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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: sqslabs on June 24, 2014, 05:47:03 PM
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Apologies if this has been covered before, but a box of s-mesh statics just showed up at my shop direct from Murakami and I'd like to get them degreased and coated ASAP.
I understand that these screens are more delicate than others, which makes sense due to the thinner thread, but just how delicate are they? What should I use to degrease/clean/etc that would be different than standard mesh? We use the basic scotch pads that most distributors sell for our standard mesh screens but I think I remember reading somewhere that people are using rags instead of the scotch pads with the s-mesh.
The last thing I want to do is tear one of these things, but I also don't want to be so careful with them that I'm overdoing it and wasting time. Any recommendations would be appreciated...
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We use the white pads instead of the standard red. With CCI Degreaser. No problems
Chris
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Here is what we use to clean them....
http://www.homedepot.com/p/O-Cel-O-Handy-Sponges-4-Pack-7271T-CC/100184181 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/O-Cel-O-Handy-Sponges-4-Pack-7271T-CC/100184181)
Honestly at first I thought they wouldn't work, but they work just fine!
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Thanks guys.. I don't have any white pads at the moment, but I do have a pack of those sponges sitting around.
And while we're on the topic, I remember reading about certain chemicals eating the mesh. We use Franmar degreaser and our dip tank is Franmar One Step Clear, although I'm looking for a new product for that as our last tank lasted about six weeks. To clean screens, we use a Safety-Kleen style parts washer which uses whatever chemical they put in those things. Is there any type of chemical I should be watching out for when using s-thread, or should I be fine with most?
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We just got in around 40 of these s mesh statics that I'll be putting into production starting tomorrow so I'll let you guys know as well how they do for us. I'm a bit skeptical that we can keep in these production for several months but we shall see. With the amount of screens our shop turns for the amount of machines/employees we aren't the easiest on screens to say the least.
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Thanks guys.. I don't have any white pads at the moment, but I do have a pack of those sponges sitting around.
And while we're on the topic, I remember reading about certain chemicals eating the mesh. We use Franmar degreaser and our dip tank is Franmar One Step Clear, although I'm looking for a new product for that as our last tank lasted about six weeks. To clean screens, we use a Safety-Kleen style parts washer which uses whatever chemical they put in those things. Is there any type of chemical I should be watching out for when using s-thread, or should I be fine with most?
I could be totally wrong here, but what I think you are referring to is a lot of the set in stain removers and haze removers. If I remember correctly, it has to do with how they work- eating away ever so slightly at the outside diameter on the thread. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember something along those lines.
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Thanks guys.. I don't have any white pads at the moment, but I do have a pack of those sponges sitting around.
And while we're on the topic, I remember reading about certain chemicals eating the mesh. We use Franmar degreaser and our dip tank is Franmar One Step Clear, although I'm looking for a new product for that as our last tank lasted about six weeks. To clean screens, we use a Safety-Kleen style parts washer which uses whatever chemical they put in those things. Is there any type of chemical I should be watching out for when using s-thread, or should I be fine with most?
I could be totally wrong here, but what I think you are referring to is a lot of the set in stain removers and haze removers. If I remember correctly, it has to do with how they work- eating away ever so slightly at the outside diameter on the thread. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember something along those lines.
Perhaps referring especially to the lye based dehazers like Haze Remover Paste 78 from Ulano or the bad-ass Autohaze from Autotype. They will destroy any mesh if left on too long, or used habitually.
The thinner threads could only go quicker!
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Makes sense, thanks guys. We use Franmar D-Haze here which doesn't sound as strong as what Frog mentioned. Its no fun to breathe in, though.
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Xenon has a wide range of products that are easy to use and easy on mesh. Plastiwash. Xer 25. F.S.I.C. Degreaser.
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We don`t degrease our S-mesh at all. All we do is power wash it, dry it and then coat it. For haze removing we use CCI Envirohaze. For tougher cases we have CCI liquid renu-it. Both work like a charm. And we use a nice big soft sponge like the ones you use for your car.
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We've had 20 of these in production for three or so weeks now.
10, 150's
10, 225's
I was pretty skeptical of how long these we're going to last in our shop. We can be rough, & Allen did warn me if my shop was rough on screens they might not last if I don't take care of them. as of now we are only down one.
I did tell the guys to take it easy on them & be a little more careful. But I also needed a real shop test out of them so I have not hovered over them.
We have not changed anything in the shop process for them ( aside from a little extra caution ) all ICC wash chemicals, & normal scrub brushes.
I like the sponge idea though I might have to give that a try, but so far no need, we'll see.......knock on wood. I am a Murphy:-X
Murphy37
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Kor-chem dip tank CP-2
Pressure wash
Easisolv 701 with a white scrubbie, both sides
Rinse, dry & coat.
I haven't had a pinhole or bad coat of emulsion in years. Franmar one-step was fine too, as well as easiway supra, but I like this CP-2 much better.
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Korchem stuff seems pretty good, although the newest gal of Bio-1 we got seems about two thirds as strong as the first few were...
Just about considering going 100% Saati chem. Not the cheapest, but neither is testing.
I'm jealous of you lucky, lucky S thread guys.
People knock over screens here a lot, S mesh or not they get trashed on a monthly, if not weekly basis... :(
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OK, here is my take on the care of S mesh. Scrub pads can be way too abrasive on fine thread meshes. If you can scrub the back of your hand with them and not feel your skin roughed up then the pad is ok. But if it scratches your skin the same is happening to fine threads. The screen may mysteriously pop while drying after degreasing. This is due to a variety of reasons, but the main one is the threads get nicked using abrasive scrub pads, sharp metal spatulas, resting squeegees, floodbars and clips on the mesh during set up. Squeegee corners should be rounded.
We are talking about threads that are less than a human hair in some cases. I recommend using a quality sponge, not the cheap 99 cent variety, but a sponge you would wash your car with. The degreaser is doing the degreasing not the tool. Be gentle on the screens. Dedicate a sponge to degrease. Use soft plastic cards to remove inks as well. Here are some links on the subject from our site.
http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Stretching-S-and-LX-Meshes.pdf (http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Stretching-S-and-LX-Meshes.pdf)
One more for additional info: http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Power-of-S-Mesh-1.pdf (http://murakamiscreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Power-of-S-Mesh-1.pdf)
let me know of any issues so I can help out.
Al
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I treat my 355-31 like gold. I don't even like my reclaim guy to do them, but I have to. I make it very clear the value of these particular screens. I call them my babies.
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We run 90/71 up through 330/30 here and they all get de inked and dehazed (Franmar liquid D-Haze) with red scrubbies. Is this wearing them out faster? I couldn't say for sure. I believe that blade and sometimes flood abrasion as well as ink knives and the constant, unrelenting blade pressure provided by our old Gauntlet are more likely culprits.
Soft sponge for degrease.
All but 135/48 and 310/30 have an acceptable shop life with many lasting for what seems like an unreasonably long time given their delicacy.
Mesh safe everything, everywhere, all the time is the key.
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Some pads work ok. Like I said, if it scratches the back of your hand it is sanding nicks into the threads. Some pads are far softer than say a 3M Ozite pad. Squeegee pressure is definitely something that will abrade the knuckles and mesh. I found I can kick out the angle a little and use far less squeegee pressure to transfer inks. This is especially true of discharge where a bit more angle helps reduce squeegee wear. On older style heads I put landing pads of Pelican tape to absorb the hard hit the mesh can take during printing or flooding.
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Thanks for all the replies. This forum, and its users, rock.
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What's Pelican tape Alan?
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This is a cloth duct tape commonly used to protect roller frame channels. Ir can resist some of the reclaiming processes with a stronger adhesives.
We used it on long runs, the only time it really needed, to provide a landing pad on either end for the squeegee and floodbar. We also used rubber adhesive shipping tape with thin chipboard as well to disperse the impact that older pneumatic presses have. We also placed them so that the floodbar and squeegee stroke never hit them along their path. For short runs I use double shipping tape which is probably just as good as the pelican. We libraried screens, so having semi permanent tape ready to go helped. (Would never library screens today. Good mesh is better reclaimed and used than sitting on a shelf.)
Al
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Ah, I see. Sounds like the stuff made by AWT that is a bear to get off used roller frames. We use Intertape 510 (I think that's the stuff...) and for the super long DC runs we'll put a strip of the blue R-Tape where the squeegee starts the stroke as the Intertape will shatter off little shards of tape that get in the image area.