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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: earthdome on August 19, 2011, 08:35:30 AM
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Okay, I have been accumulating equipment and initially intended on just doing online sales with ebay and other sources. But I have been writing a business plan for screen printing and plan to include vinyl graphics and I am potentially going to get funding. I even found a great niche area and have contacts that do screen printing in that area and are willing to help me out getting started. And I know having and employee is going to be expensive, unless I could justify having one with phenomenal sales.
But my actual hands on experience of screen printing minimal. And from what I remember (from trying to start a shop once before) It was very difficult and slow going. However I have a lot of resources and contacts to help me get this going. And I think the area I am in has a lot of room for growth... and only a couple competitors
Even though I have a very good business plan and a lot of resources and some basic equipment ... Am I wrong for thinking I can just inject myself into a good market and start profiting right away? I know any business is going to be a lot of work...but
Should I turn my focus to online sales and try and get funding for an online retailer situation where I can do it from home without any overhead? Would there be a better (more reliable) business alternative that I could try and go for ? I have thought about a computer repair shop, and getting some training along the way, because I know computers well. I have thought about a used computer resale shop, due to being able to get used computers online for cheap.
I have about a week to change my mind or go full force with the business plan I have already presented ... really any response I would be greatful for I posted a similar question to the forums "One last chance to turn around should I take it ?" ... if you would rather respond there. Just getting down to the wire and pulling out all the stops to make sure I am doing the right thing.
Thanks for any input....
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First of all, Welcome.
I started at the beginning of the year. I have been oing graphic design for a 5-6 years and embroidery for the last 2.
About screen printing i did not know anything when I started (I do not know much right now). But in the last few month, I was able to print some nice shirts (at least I was told that) wit the knowledge I have right now.
I would sugget you to take a look online, there is a loot of good stuff on Youtube, forums like this (this one especially), and a lot of articles on screen printing sites like ASPA.
I would not go with the retail store route right now, economy is bad and you do not have a customer base or experience for that. Do stuff from home first, until you get good, and then look at retail shop again.
And the most important thing, do not cheap out on the equipment. Get the good equipment that will serve you good with a minimal downtime. A lot of good used equipment is out there.
Good luck
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I think you need to do some more math, not implying that you haven't already done a fair amount. Employees make you money, but you must have the sales or you won't be taking in enough dough to cover expenses, and then have to let them go. Then with more work, you need more space... So, if you can keep the work coming in, an employee should be doing the production while you sell and run the rest of the business. That's the simple version, obviously, it gets more convoluted than that, but as it does, you need to maintain control, which means more people and space, and more sales... If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Get an experienced employee, that's exactly what I was when I started doing t-shirts. I already knew how to make films (photographically in those day) make screens, mix colors, and produce art. You want one of those... and pay him/her what they're worth.
Steve
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Wow! I am impressed ... Quick responses !! Wish I would have found this place sooner !
Thank you for the welcome Dennis. I do have some quality equipment but I only have a 4 color press so I will be upgrading to a 6 color soon. Given my circumstances (of getting funding) I am wanting to enter into an area that has a growing community and about 50 times the population as my home town.
There are 3 screen printers in my small town and only about 6 in this larger city. Even though I will be leaving my word of mouth contacts .. and traveling 40 miles to the shop, I think this is ultimately a better decision. If things work out there I can always move there.
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All the money is in selling.....I have not printed a thing in years and manage to do quite well......
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Wow! I am impressed ... Quick responses !! Wish I would have found this place sooner !
First off, welcome. Don't be so surprised at the quick responses if you have only TSPMB with which to compare. That place was purposefully killed in a perverted business move a few years back, and may never get back on its feet again as management refuses to address the issue. But enough of that.
A few questions, why the one week deadline? Do you have a source of income now? Do your contacts include screen printers? What equipment have you accumulated?
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I think you need to do some more math, not implying that you haven't already done a fair amount. Employees make you money, but you must have the sales or you won't be taking in enough dough to cover expenses, and then have to let them go. Then with more work, you need more space... So, if you can keep the work coming in, an employee should be doing the production while you sell and run the rest of the business. That's the simple version, obviously, it gets more convoluted than that, but as it does, you need to maintain control, which means more people and space, and more sales... If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Get an experienced employee, that's exactly what I was when I started doing t-shirts. I already knew how to make films (photographically in those day) make screens, mix colors, and produce art. You want one of those... and pay him/her what they're worth.
Yeah, it's hard to gauge what kind of sales I will get right away so ... I guess I will have to judge that when I get started. Given the population and the small amount of competitors I think I have a great chance for success. Just a matter of strategic marketing and trying to set myself aside from the competition.
Yeah, I think I will for sure need that one employee to start out .. or at least contracted help.... I definitely want to focus on the sales myslef and let someone else worry about production, but at the same time learning it myself.
I have already met some good contacts in my target area that are well versed in printing. Also one person who had a larger shop in the same town that had employees, including sales people etc. So hopefully I can get some good insight from him .
I know it's a long road ahead , but i'm ready for the challenge and not going to give up for anything !
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All the money is in selling.....I have not printed a thing in years and manage to do quite well......
That is something extremely nice to hear.... ! Thanks....
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I wouldn't rely or recommend selling on ebay. Those folks are low-ballers X1000 and besides, by the time ebay and PayPal take their cut, you're making much less than the selling price. That being said, I do keep one ebay listing and use it as a calling card of sorts. It cost me .50/month and I do get a several hundred bucks a year in sales, not listed on ebay.
With amount of graphic tees out there, there is room for all us :)
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A few questions, why the one week deadline? Do you have a source of income now? Do your contacts include screen printers? What equipment have you accumulated?
Thanks for the welcome Mr Frog. Yeah that and t-shirt forums were the only places I had ... I would get a couple responses after about a day but nothing like this : )
Okay, as for the deadline. (will try to make this somewhat short).. Okay, I am getting some help (due to my disability) through my local department of vocational rehabilitation (tied into the local workforce center).
I have been given the option to get help with schooling or help with starting a business. I have decided to get help with starting a business.
As far as there help starting a business goes they do a feasibility study to determine if the business is viable. If approved, they then look into funding resources, family, loans, etc. But they can help (the councilor themselves) ...up to $5000, or up to $25,000 if approved by the director of the office, and over 25k if sent to for approval. Also they will help pay for training that will help me on my way.
Okay, well I have an entrepreneurial spirit and have been interested in screen printing since my aunt opened her embroidery shop in a small town like 10 years ago. I have since been spending a lot of my free time researching and acquiring equipment so I chose my passion "screen printnig"
However due to the long struggle of acquiring equipment, and my lack of a place to set up equipment.. I don't have very much hands on experience.
Well without further delay here is my list of equipment and resources...
Screen printing equipment
4 Color 2 Station Atlas table top press,
Flash dryer
50 Screen printing screens with mesh
Bolt of mesh (58 yards)
Epson 1400 wide format printer
Computer used for t-shirt design
Fast rip Screen printing Software
Illustrator/Photoshop (design software)
Assortment of different inks
Home made UV exposure unit.
Ink jet transparency film 100 sheets
Home Made screen storage racks
Inventory –150 shirts 200 hats
Jacket hold down
Makeshift washout booth
Pressure washer
Various chemicals
Vinyl Sign and Heat press Lettering Equipment
Graphtec CE-3000-60 vinyl cutter (24")
Computer set up with Vinyl cutting software
Hix Ht 1400 15x15 heat press
Several rolls of t-shirt Vinyl
Hat press
Office Equipment
Epson nx 420 all in one printer
Office chair
Computer for general office/filing needs
Will acquire the fallowing on my own:
Web Design and Logo Creation
Web Site Design/Creation
Logo Creation
Having that said, I also have contacts in the industry, people I know who have shops (which I need to get in and train with) . And have just met a couple guys in my target area that have screen printing experience and could help me get started. I will be leaving behind the word of mouth (from my area) and people I know, and also my aunt's embroidery shop (which wouldn't bring me that much business) ... but leaving these for a larger area with a lack of screen printers. I could allways move to this location eventually if needed.
I have a full basement now , but in a small town of 9k people versus a town with 300,000 people and way less competition (per person ratio) I think it is a no brainer. Although I will be starting fresh in this area with limited contacts I feel it is the best option.
Okay (if your still with me) right now I am in the phase of writing my feasibility study (well the place that was contracted out is doing it) but she has given me the opportunity to make any necessary changes to it before she turns it in on the 31st.. I have questioned if it's what I want to do, can I find something with less physical work, less messy closer to my home , or maybe even online that I could do from my house. Or with less or no learning curves.
However I am this far in it I don't think it would be advisable to change it now, ad it may affect funding.
I am working on making some changes to this document.
here is a list of what I am stating I need:
Items with Immediate Need
Complete Screen Printing Business Course $395+
Stationary & Brochures $500
Cash Register & Displays $500
Conveyor Dryer (for mass production) $2,000
Various Production Chemicals $200
Assortment of Sign Vinyl $500
total : $4095
Items Needed in Early Stages of Development
Sublimation Printer $300 to $2,500 (Estimated $1500)
6 Color 6 Station Press $1200
Total $2700
Additional Start Up Costs
Include rent deposits and rent, legal (filing fees, etc), insurance, and contracted help (to maximize profit potential). These start up costs will be further calculated once a location is decided upon, but may be in the $4,000 range or more.
[/u] Long Term Equipment Needs[/u]
DTG (Automatic Direct to Garment Printer) $5000+
Automatic Screen Printing Press $6000+
Total $11,000+
There is a lot of different variables stressed in the actual document ... such as "these items will not be purchased until the need is justifed" etc ... I also stated I need a contracted helper at first , and will have to determine if an employee will be necessary if production picks up.. But wanting to make this a huge success so , I am sure employee's would be a benifit, but to start out I think I will contract intil I can afford/justify an employee.
This is what I portray the business will encompass:
Screen Printing
Artwork Setup / Graphics Design
Team Logo Placement
Heat Pressing
Sublimation (prints on promotional materials)
Business Card Printing
Vinyl Sign Printing and Design
Basic Web Design (contracted out)
Although not sure about business card printing. I would also need a new printer if I decide to do heat transfers.. I have considered including retail but decided it won't be the best option. I have put a lot of thought into my company name , and location, and have a friend working on my website as we speak. Would also like to have a good web presence which only 1 or 2 competitors have..
Anyways (if by some miracle you made it through reading this) I thank you !! perhaps I should have started a new thread for this but ... hopefully I get some responses .. Would be nice to have someone willing to go over the whole document , but I think I stressed the major points ...
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
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I think I started eight or nine companies by now. Some were an incredible flop and some were very successful . . .
What did the good ones have in common? They all had the sales lined up before anything was started. They all required an insane amount of dedication and crazy long hours. Any business I start any more has to have goals and some good underlying math. Look to get into what will not lose you money even with bad management and will make you a lot of money with very good management. Starting from scratch with borrowed money is tough. What happens if you do not make it? Do you still have to pay back the loan? Will you be able to?
Don't take me wrong, it is being done by many ppl every day, and many of us just stumble around to success, but having plans and goals and being able to do it in a calculated manner requires a different approach, type of thinking and incredible dedication. If that is the route you are taking, get some advisors to help you make sure your goal are obtainable, measurable and relevant. Have them help you analyze what you are doing and what your plans are. Advisors will also help keep you on track.
If you decide to wing it, stay away from borrowing money. This way if you decide to quit you do not have to worry about paying back the money out of your own pocket.
Feel free to drop me a line if you have any more questions, I'd be glad to help!
pierre
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Like Pierre said, do the research, and if you have time, give him a call. He helped me a lot. Also, I'm open to phone calls (afternoon) if you need help with my limited knowledge :)
Also, just to point out that your pricing for a equipment is a bit low.
You will probably need a bit more money for a 6/6 manual press (at least a good one with micros. Micros are a MUST HAVE option), you did not mention flash anywhere, $5000 for a DTG is a bit low too, and good luck finding an automatic press for $6000 (precision oval excluded).
I'm not trying to brag, just pointing out that your estimated prices are on the low end (really low end) and that is why emphasized in my first post that the most important thing is a good equipment.
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Sorry guys there was a whole list of important equipment I have that I forgot to add to the list .(everything above illustrator/photoshop is what I forgot to add)
I have updated the list now, And thank you for the offer for assistance !! I will likely take you up on it !
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You can pick up late 90's Gauntlets all day long for $6-$8K
I had a friend that had a Brother GT-541 go at auction for $4k.
The deals are possible, I just hop eoyu have plenty of time to wait and you are constantly scouring the internet and auctions.
Also, Is it possible to sell in the next town over without moving your operation?
I used to sell a lot on the other end of town...it is now saturated with printers and I am glad I don't work there.
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Looks to me like you're a businessman that just might happen to become a printer.
Nothing wrong with that at all, but I'm the opposite. If I was in your position I would do
what Royster says, because he's right.
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You can pick up late 90's Gauntlets all day long for $6-$8K
I had a friend that had a Brother GT-541 go at auction for $4k.
The deals are possible, I just hop eoyu have plenty of time to wait and you are constantly scouring the internet and auctions.
Gauntlets you can find, but in what condition for that money.
Brother GT-541 was an auction, how much did it go for?
Brad, I understand what you are saying, but it think it is better not to cheap out and go for the cheapest on the machinery that is suposed to make you money.
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Good used condition. They pumped 6 colors out like hotcakes in the late 90's. There are a ton of them out there. Just go private seller and take a tech with you.
A normal price for that would be around $12K
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Looks to me like you're a businessman that just might happen to become a printer.
Nothing wrong with that at all, but I'm the opposite. If I was in your position I would do
what Royster says, because he's right.
Okay, well Royster said All there is to do id "sell" I guess I don't get what that means.... to open a store front with no equipment and just outsource everything ? Or did you mean keep acquiring equipment and focus on sales and let experienced printers do the work ? I guess i'm a tad confused...
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There's plenty of contract printers that can offer you pricing that will allow a decent margin on most
jobs for you to make a living without doing anything but selling, ordering shirts and maybe some light
artwork. Find one nearby that you can work with and sell away.
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You do not need equipment or a location.......You go out and knock on doors.....Either "real doors" by hitting the road or "virtual doors" by direct marketing....I make most of my sales direct marketing (mail order).....Hardly ever see clients face to face any more...There is so much production capacity available these days that is usually less costly to "out source" than to do the work yourself....I have contractors that will do 150 1 colour 1 side imprints (dark on light) for 70.00 to 100.00...
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Thanks for the input on the equipment guys.. Do you think these are things I should try and acquire right away to be able to do mass production or keep as I planned for later on when I can justify the need for one ? Or have the profit to re-invest in one ?
Remember this is only the feasibility phase.. once I get approved then I move on to writing the actual business plan. But I am given the opportunity to change information in there until she turns it in. (I guess they only send out reports on the 15th and 30th of the month.) So the more appealing I can make it sound and if I ask for equipment in the right way and can justify it ... then I am more likely to get it approved for the funding when the actual plan is written out.
So I feel this is really important time for me to really assess the reality of things, if there is any other avenue that could potentially be more profitable? Or buttoning down anything I can so this business runs like a well oiled machine...
What can I be doing now to justify using as much funding as I can (which I don't think I have to pay back) at least not if the business doesn't work .. then they will likely just auction off the equipment... if it works and i'm making good money I think they make a plan to re-pay... but this is NOT like a typical loan... But want to keep it moderate so they don't think they are taking on too much risk.
I guess right now would be the time to see if there is something with a more turn key solution, perhaps closer to my home, something that also fits my interests/experience to the point that I don't have so many learning curves. But as for right now , I obviously have a passion to be in this business and pretty gung ho about it... but hope I am not going about it the wrong way. I know it is optimal to start from home and get a name and contacts... but I don't see it being really profitable in my immediate area , despite the fact that I do have a full basement to do it in.. But can I draw enough through the web to offset that ?
Or should I do like you guys are saying and focus on sales marketing and get a couple good employees. I find it hard to justify having employee's right off the bat, but If the business plan was a solid as could be wouldn't that be optimal ?
Or perhaps starting out, maybe try to outsource either everything or that I can't handle ?
Also the DVR is not going to be like a typical lender there goal is to see that I get something that I am going to be comfortable with and is going to be the best fit for me.. I could see them not liking the travel part .. but I could always move there if necessary.. and I think I need to include that in the report,
Screw it, I think the best thing for me to do maybe is post the whole thing to the forum here and hopefully I can get some people to help me pick it apart, and fill any holes.... Despite that its like 11 pages long .. I think it would help and could be useful to the forum for sure. I guess a moderator can block it if it's too big.. ; )
It is time for me to pull out all the stops to make 100% absolute sure this business plan is TOP NOTCH and has absolutely NO room for error. This is my baby, I see this as my last chance to do something meaningful with my life. At least the only chance I am going to get help like this..
Well I am going to post the "study" to the forum.. there is a lot in there already I want to change. The only info I am going to leave out is the name of my competitive area... and my business name "of course" :P and it's a good one.. ( I think) anyways looking forward to getting some (if neccessary brutal) opinions about it ...and thanks a lot guys .. really glad I found this forum ... ;D
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I just realized that both Dan and I responded to you on TSPMB over a month ago, and I did have a blurb about this place as a signature in the post (as did Dan), so...
what took you so long? ???
Seriously though, glad that you made it over. ;D
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You do not need equipment or a location.......You go out and knock on doors.....Either "real doors" by hitting the road or "virtual doors" by direct marketing....I make most of my sales direct marketing (mail order).....Hardly ever see clients face to face any more...There is so much production capacity available these days that is usually less costly to "out source" than to do the work yourself....I have contractors that will do 150 1 colour 1 side imprints (dark on light) for 70.00 to 100.00...
You would at least want a website right ? Is there still a way to focus on that market ? In what ways could I justify getting "assistance" or financial help.. Or how could I direct funds to cater to a business model like this ?
As it states in my current model "he I will be responsible for all aspects (artwork preparation, screen setup, ink mixing, printing and curing shirts, making customer samples, cutting and weeding vinyl for signs. In addition, he would be responsible for the day to day operations including sales, marketing, advertising, customer service, and customer tracking"
and I can see this being the case if I go to the weekend training seminar (as outlined in my business plan).. or if a contracted person were in house to help me get rolling. I also have time yet, and I plan on spending time at other people's shops (that I know) .. to also get a better feel for things..
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I just realized that both Dan and I responded to you on TSPMB over a month ago, and I did have a blurb about this place as a signature in the post (as did Dan), so...
what took you so long? ???
Seriously though, glad that you made it over. ;D
Thanks a lot!! ........ Ya know I do think I remember that now. I must have been submersed in t-shirt forums and thinking I was getting help I needed there .. I remember signing up to one ( I think you referred me 2) and maybe the first one wasn't like this place at all... Sure kicking myself for it now though for not signing up 4 this one!!!
Even though information is going to be bias anywhere you go ... This most certainly seems a lot better than the younger crowd at t-forums .. and seems a much wider focus than just screen printing and embroidery.. So I was getting some seriously bias info, hehe.
I have come quite a ways since my posts at that forum so... hoping you don't think I am being redundant. Though i'm sure some of my questions are similar my situation has changed quite a bit.
Well dunno what took me so long .... but glad i'm here, i'll just respect it that much more now !!
Feel like I hopped out of a station wagon and into a Porsche !! Much respect for you guys !! and thanks also to Dan to responding to my email today ( man is that TSMB ever a ghost town ! lol !)
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Here is another thought...Forget about screen printing because the market is crowded already......Production is the least profitable part of the screen printing business...I can make more per hour selling that most small printers can make printing....If you want to a business where you do the work, consider pad printing, cylindrical printing or a CNC Shark...Pretty sure you will not have 10 other competitors within 25 miles...These 3 ideas allow you to develop a niche market that has good margins and often not too much local competition...
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There's plenty of contract printers that can offer you pricing that will allow a decent margin on most
jobs for you to make a living without doing anything but selling, ordering shirts and maybe some light
artwork. Find one nearby that you can work with and sell away.
Thanks Eb, .... how would one go about marketing that service ...just a strong web presence and some advertizing? Or include a physical location ? How would I utilize funding to cater to that business model ?
Thanks
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Let me be the first to tell you to run.. run fast and far away from this industry. It's the most cut-thoat kick em in the D I C K over a penny bunch of people I've ever met. I grew up in this industry and have seen it's best and absolute worst. It's what I know and do best so I'm here for life, you're new with high hopes and ambitions just waiting to be trampled on and drug through the bowels of screen printing.
If you want to do this.. don't print! SELL!! and let us lifer ink monkey's who really know what were doing, do it for you.
**edit.. really guys.. word censoring.. :o what are we in grade school.
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Let me be the first to tell you to run.. run fast and far away from this industry. It's the most cut-thoat kick em in the D I C K over a penny bunch of people I've ever met. I grew up in this industry and have seen it's best and absolute worst. It's what I know and do best so I'm here for life, you're new with high hopes and ambitions just waiting to be trampled on and drug through the bowels of screen printing.
If you want to do this.. don't print! SELL!! and let us lifer ink monkey's who really know what were doing, do it for you.
**edit.. really guys.. word censoring.. :o what are we in grade school.
Sorry John, think of it as an attempt to force our members to develop a wider vocabulary.
Now as for your advice, I will almost agree and quote Terry from On the Waterfront, "What do I get? A one-way ticket to Palookaville"
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If I had the gift of gab I'd be selling and not printing.
Why are you so deadset on this business loan thing and figuring out how to utilize/justify it?
Wouldn't you rather start a business and not take on any debt?
Build a website. A good one. Pay someone to do it for you if you can't. Market the hell out
of yourself. Both of those take at least a little money so there's your loan justification if
you must. Shake hands and smile and network and wear a tie and junk. Make connections
and sell sell sell.
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Here is another thought...Forget about screen printing because the market is crowded already......Production is the least profitable part of the screen printing business...I can make more per hour selling that most small printers can make printing....If you want to a business where you do the work, consider pad printing, cylindrical printing or a CNC Shark...Pretty sure you will not have 10 other competitors within 25 miles...These 3 ideas allow you to develop a niche market that has good margins and often not too much local competition...
What do you know about my market ? there are 4 competitors in a population of 300,000 people !! Shoot, there are 3 competitors in my home town of 9,000 people! And I just read a post where someone said there town of 500,000 people has 50 shops and there are a few shops within a 2 mile radius of him , and he is still running !!
If I knew they proper way to utilize this funding resource more efficiently, or for a more lucrative venture I would do so . But I don't hear any one saying "get into retail" or open a computer store , or any other alternatives ?
I guess I need to look and see if I can find someone that can model what services you speak of I perhaps would have a better perspective.
I appreciate the honesty .. and I do need to look at the hard facts and reality of things and what I wand and am capable of doing.. and is why I am here.
But given the resources of a couple printers in the area who would be running if they could start a shop. And several experienced people are willing to help me out and walk me through things ... why shouldn't I give it a try ?
And i'm not wanting to just offer screen printing! I want to offer web design, graphic design, vinyl signs, promotional items, along with screen printing.
And I already am working on a website that will be an outlet for local's to advertize in, and they will be able to moderate there information remotely. This will be a cheap service but I feel will give me a platform to connect myself with local businesses.
I guess maybe i'm not looking at the big picture enough ... I am dedicating all my time and stopping at nothing to utilize all my resources and connections to make this fly ... but perhaps I need to take a step back and see the best way I can position myself here ...
Thanks for your opinions...
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Let me be the first to tell you to run.. run fast and far away from this industry. It's the most cut-thoat kick em in the D I C K over a penny bunch of people I've ever met. I grew up in this industry and have seen it's best and absolute worst. It's what I know and do best so I'm here for life, you're new with high hopes and ambitions just waiting to be trampled on and drug through the bowels of screen printing.
If you want to do this.. don't print! SELL!! and let us lifer ink monkey's who really know what were doing, do it for you.
**edit.. really guys.. word censoring.. :o what are we in grade school.
Is this one of my local competitors ? lol .... feel like I just got a swift one to the junk myself, hehe.
I do not however take for granite your perspective, that's why i'm here. And it's refreshing getting opinions from actual screen printers which is what I was looking for ..
I know you likely see it as me jumping into a pool of infested waters that I am not aware of, but it's not my first time around the block with screen printing. I failed years ago also when trying to start up in a friends Sign shop.... but there was no advertizing and for the most part the signs dominated the work load. Also he shut down shop and moved on , so there was nothing I could do about it ..
I have intermediate knowledge of design software and have studied printing methods and researched for 10+ years . Though a lot of it was focused on web sales and researching that market , I don't feel blind to screen printing.
Have a lot of resources , designer friends, web designers that would benefit not just my advertizing but the business itself in being able to offer a full compass promotional outfit .
Maybe your right , maybe I should not focus on the printing ... or find another way to get it done. Wearing a suit and doing sales is not what I signed up for though . And what tells me this is the right business to do sales in ? Shouldn't I be the one sending out a sales guy to bring more money in ? Or focusing on the sales aspects myself ?
As I said having a true industry response is what I was looking for and the reality checks are refreshing.. Just went from being in a Porsche to now a run down K car in the hood with a bunch of guns pointed at my head ... lol
I do think I need to take a step back, and I am trying to explore all alternatives I can.... If I could find the perfect little shop in my tourist town to run a candy shop or something and make a living , I would probably jump on it.
Or a something related to computers or computer repair has crossed my mind also but just don't see the market.
All of your input is valued .. thank you
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If I had the gift of gab I'd be selling and not printing.
Why are you so deadset on this business loan thing and figuring out how to utilize/justify it?
Wouldn't you rather start a business and not take on any debt?
Build a website. A good one. Pay someone to do it for you if you can't. Market the hell out
of yourself. Both of those take at least a little money so there's your loan justification if
you must. Shake hands and smile and network and wear a tie and junk. Make connections
and sell sell sell.
I would like to see what businesses have been successful by just doing sales. If I had a website or something to reference from I would definitely check it out.
I am dead set on this loan thing because for one it's not a loan! I am getting assistance due to a disability and as far as I know it is just that "assistance" Never did I make mention to a loan ..
I chose to go the business instead of going to school and I think I made the right decision. Have thought about a business class so then I would know the proper market, etc.. but I thought I was intelligent enough to figure that out on my own.. There are other factors such as being a felon that factor in to my decision.
You are kind of right. perhaps I'm looking at the funding the wrong way ..... Just praying I make the right decision , one I can live with , and be happy with ..
Building a top notch website doesn't sound like a bad idea, however I have the resources to do that already ...
I am hoping if I dedicate a couple weeks to being in a print shop ... perhaps it will change my view on things....
If you guys didn't get into printing I would like to hear what you would have chose instead ?
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If I had the gift of gab I'd be selling and not printing.
uhh -I think you have the gift haha. . . I have to 100% agree with J Sheridan. Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it. . If you want in, then go work at a shop for a few years and learn as much as you can. If you don't know a thing about production, how can you sell a finished product?
I would take that business grant, go buy some Nikes and run like the freakin wind. . .better off opening a pizza shop, atleast you'll get to eat a damn lunch. . .hell, It's Friday night 11:00 and I'm STILL working. . . I'm talking to Captain Morgan in about five minutes.
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. . . I have to 100% agree with J Sheridan. Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it. . If you want in, then go work at a shop for a few years and learn as much as you can. If you don't know a thing about production, how can you sell a finished product?
I would take that business grant, go buy some Nikes and run like the freakin wind. . .better off opening a pizza shop, atleast you'll get to eat a damn lunch. . .hell, It's Friday night 11:00 and I'm STILL working. . . I'm talking to Captain Morgan in about five minutes.
Thanks for your opinion Homer. And a Pizza Shop isn't a half bad idea..... Sure "Anyone with a few hundred bucks can get into this industry and suck the life out of it" ...... but someone with the resources and funding to get something done, and has found a niche area and done a ton of research and found ways to set itself apart from the competition.. can (I think) not just survive .. but thrive..
In fact I know it's possible because people have started on a shoestring and are still doing it today....and there is even proof in the "How did you......" thread on this forum.... as well as other people ...
"If you don't know a thing about production, how can you sell a finished product?"
Well , who says I don't know a thing ?? I actually know quite a bit about screen printing... and if I include a weekend seminar and hands on screen printing course (as is included in my business plan) ... and with the wealth of information that is available not just on this forum, but everywhere online ... how could I possibly fail ??
Plus they say that 80% of jobs are 1 or 2 color prints, do you really think I couldn't accomplish not even those prints ?? Not even with the help of this forum ? Besides I have knowledgeable veterans in the industry helping me get started so think my bases should be pretty well covered. And also I plan on focusing the majority of my efforts on sales and marketing and may include an employee in the business plan ..
I think whenever I mention my funding source , you folks really take a dis-liking to that or something ... not sure of it but it seems that way . Every one shut up since I said that... that may not be the case.... and I know this industry isn't easy... but I see it being VERY profitable given the different array of services I will offer. And given the countless months of market research that's into it,and the growing area I want to hit, I don't see how it could fail....
But I understand what your saying , and I am not canceling out any options... I mean if NO ONE at all had confidence in this but me .. and every printer said run, run away ! I likely would. But I am going to try and stand my ground and know the capabilities of my business plan....
I'd be glad to hear any more thoughts or opinions ...
Thanks Homer for sharing your thought's ... Hope your meeting with the Captain was Spiiicy ; )
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As a guy that has extensive business background and started my shop from a similar perspective as you, I can tell you that you are very wrong when you think that it is a VERY lucrative business. It will depend on what you consider very profitable, but I can tell you that I have never worked so hard for so little money. Part of the low return is because most of the profits are going back into the company, but even when we reach the set goals and the business stabilizes, it will be making a fraction of what I was making before. There are several reasons why this makes sense to me and it would not work for other ppl (mainly I am looking to have somebody run it for me and collect passive income which makes my company an investment rather than a job and thus goes by a totally different set of rules). All of the top ppl in the industry are not doing very well (I have talked to several of the legends and they are all scraping by or doing just OK at the best. and these are the ppl that are considered the best of the best in our field). When members like John Sheridan (who has extensive background and years if not decades in managing anything from a small manual to 60+ employee shops) tell you it is a tough business, you are getting the information from the horse's mouth.
Nobody is trying to talk you out of it, we are just giving you honest feedback. I've helped many other printers with advice, letting them visit our shop and even going to their place to help them a little. Almost everybody here is trying to help other members rather than sabotage them. On few rare occasions some piece of information is not divulged and usually it is labeled as some sort of trade secret, but 99.9% of the information is shared freely for the purpose of helping each other out.
Many here are skeptical as there are screen printing shops popping up everywhere just to close a year or two later and disrupt the hard working folk while they are around.
The reality is, while you have looked at many things related to the numbers, the main factor in any small business operation is the human element. When venture capital companies invest in the startups, they invest in the team that will be running it. It takes a special breed to do what you are trying to do and to be successful. The hours are brutal, the pay is non existent for at least a year if not longer so most ppl give in and close. Working 80 hour weeks and not getting paid takes a vision and determination. Are you willing to work 12 hour days seven days a week and take home $500 a month for the next 12 months? Building a business is not easy, you might be much better off finding one that is closing and buying them out. If you are good with numbers, figure out what they are doing wrong and figure out if it can be fixed. This way you will start with the customers, equipment and procedures. It does not have to be a screenprinting company as you say that there aren't many in your neck of the woods,anything will do. Once the business is up and running, it is much easier to evaluate and project. Your best bet is to find somebody looking to retire, but the business is actually doing well. In most cases the children are not interested in taking it over and the owners are ready to get out. You might be able to work in it for a while and even buy it cheaper if you let the owners keep a part of it.
Back to startups . . .You are fooling yourself if you think that the marketing part is easy. Generating new customers is a difficult and slow process. Trying to generate sales in a new city where you have no roots is going to be extremely hard!
To further tear your business plan apart, $5k is nowhere near enough to get a shop going. We spent $6.5k to start, but we had $60k of work already lined up so no marketing money was needed (it was all for equipment that I then spent days repairing and rebuilding). If I had to guess, it would have taken close to $15K to find that business if we had to start from scratch.
After all the years of being a business guy, I can tell you that the best advice I can give you is "Find the sales first!" the other part is easy. Right now, you are concentrating on the wrong part of the business.
pierre
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I truly appreciate your input Pierre... Can I ask what size community you live in ? Is you company being new a reason why you are still re-investing ? And what do you mean by "fraction of what I was making before"?? You mean In Your previous job or business? You say you had 60k in business to start, how is that slow ?? I mean .. I know there are shops that are greatly successful so it is possible right ?
Is how you run your business now a factor in how you are having slow returns ? Or are you in production your self now but don't want to be ?
Sorry a couple things confused me there..
Of course hearing things like "I've never worked so hard for so little money"and "Get a pizza shop at least you will eat lunch" are discouraging to say the least... but it's the reality of things I guess and I know the business is not easy, or starting a business for that matter.
I know things like ( DTG shops and shirt costs) are also causing for more strain on the industry. And I could see how "ill experienced" people like me could be seen as a "cog in the wheel" And I know it's likely you veterans would likely have more respect and confidence in me had I "been through the trenches" like most of you...
But I feel with my resources of having a couple printers willing to show me the ropes, or wanting to help grow the business to a worthy enterprise could help. They both happen to live in my market and one has ran a shop successful shop with employees, the other still working in a print shop but has his own equipment including a conveyor , but not the resources to open a shop. And both feel it could be successful and are willing to help me grow if even just on a contracted basis.
Also I know a couple other printers (one out of his house) and one in a suburban location (the guy in the burbs is using an old little conveyor dryer I owned and sold about 10 years ago) (my first round of equipment) He got it through a friend and it is being used on a daily basis.. (If that isn't ironic)
Given these factors and the graphic designers,web designers, an accountant, my sales experience, equipment I already own, (also perhaps contacts of these other printers)... My thoughts were if I could bring all these things under one umbrella I could be providing a great number of services into the community, while also helping people I know expand and utilize there skills. Which is kind of what my business name is catered towards. A full compass design/web development/promotional item store, not just limiting myself to screen printing. But do I know 100% the market is there and I can acquire the sales to justify it ? No. not 100%
I realize I was looking at the funding the wrong way. The DVR is not looking to help me start a big corporation , but only to find something suitable for my conditions (So long as I could prove a feasible business plan). And not sure how they'd look at having to travel 40 miles to work every day then have to work 14 hour days to achieve my goal. And I know starting from the ground up would have been the optimal way to go about starting up.. and making a name for myself.
It was for these newly introduced factors, than made me consider the larger area. Little competition, help directly in that are... perhaps resources with equipment.. But also I do have $8,000 in value in my own equipment so I dont see how you could say I couldn't start up on 5k of added equipment ? Of course rent, taxes, insurance, etc would also be factors....but that is in my plan.
Your right though, the more I look into possibilities of "turn key" businesses, or possibly a business that someone is getting out of for whatever reason. And building on that, or changing or growing it...this may be the best option.
I do see another alternative to the screen printing, if I were to use the equity in my equipment to get say a DTG (knowing that is a learning curve also) but perhaps I could either do a store front and offer heat transfers also ... or focus towards doing that at home with the advent of the internet, perhaps build a mega site offering 100's of designs etc ... hehe I don't know ... man have I sure been sending myself through a Whirlwind here...
Certainly glad I have opened my eyes a bit here and taking a step back. There are so many possibilities out there and they don't all take funding or "special funding potential" that I have, just perseverance, the right mind set and actually following through with things...
Anyways, props to anyone who made it through reading all that, and thanks for hearing me out.
If any one has any other light they want to shed it would be greatly appreciated. I would certainly be floored if someone would want to take some time to actually talk to me, maybe help work some of this out..
As for now i'm going to keep looking at what else may be out there, and taking a much more serious look at my whole idea on things ...
Thanks again
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again, you are looking at this from the wrong end. You have the right idea about figuring things out before getting into it, but you should be looking for sales first rather than the means to fulfill them. Once you find the customers it is relatively easy to figure out how to produce the goods (or services or what ever you are selling). As I said, we had $60k of committed work per year before we invested the time and money into the startup. So go find ppl that need something, anything, and get them to commit the work if you can deliver the goods. Find what is ailing them and fix it. Some ppl need faster turnaround, some need reduced art charges and some need better quality. Some need smaller runs and some need something impossible. Go find them and then spend the money on building the infrastructure to fulfill it.
pierre
p.s. fraction of what I was making before means I take home 1/10th of what I was making 10 years ago. This is in part due to reinvestment in the company (it will be three years old in few weeks), but it is also a less profitable business then what I have done before. While the gross margin is higher, it is very labor intensive and net profits are about half if not less than what the computer industry business was doing.