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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Stinkhorn Press on August 04, 2014, 04:03:30 PM
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ELI5: Explain it Like I'm Five.
Sorry for the silly question. The shop has been run this way since before my time - I'm not real clear what the steps/processes are for doing it otherwise:
We have a safety-kleen auto-shop parts washer that is refilled with clean mineral spirits (?) once a month, right next to the press. When a job is done, squeegees go inside it, screens de-inked with a spatula, de-taped and stacked next to it. Wash everything 1-2-3 times a day as needed. Screens go back to the screen room to be reclaimed when dry and squeegess go back to the press table.
The problem is image burn in on the mesh. Hardcore. Haze remover does nothing to dent it. (doesn't help, I hear, that we use 480 as an on press screen cleaner)
What are my other options for a ink-degradant (on press and off) that is much gentler (and probably a bit cheaper than the Safety-Kleen to boot)?
Do you wash the results down a drain?
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the hip/cool thing to do right now is to go with OzzyJuice and a heated parts cleaner.
I have never and will probably never be a fan of SafetyKleen...for several reasons...
1. Their fluid can ruin squeegees
2. YOU are responsible for your solution even after it leaves your facility. I am not a fan of that at all.
3. It works pretty well on ink, but there are better fluids
4. It's EXPENSIVE.
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On Press Wash - CCI CG-2
Haze Remover - CCI Liquid Renuit
Whatever you put in the cleaning sink, do not let your squeegees soak. Use it and lose it.
Oh, more than ten years ago I ditched the spray screen opener, even when used only as an emergency opener for a small area. I would never have used it as an screen actual cleaner. To me, that stuff smelled like the hazardous chemical it was!
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ELI5: Explain it Like I'm Five.
Sorry for the silly question. The shop has been run this way since before my time - I'm not real clear what the steps/processes are for doing it otherwise:
We have a safety-kleen auto-shop parts washer that is refilled with clean mineral spirits (?) once a month, right next to the press. When a job is done, squeegees go inside it, screens de-inked with a spatula, de-taped and stacked next to it. Wash everything 1-2-3 times a day as needed. Screens go back to the screen room to be reclaimed when dry and squeegess go back to the press table.
The problem is image burn in on the mesh. Hardcore. Haze remover does nothing to dent it. (doesn't help, I hear, that we use 480 as an on press screen cleaner)
What are my other options for a ink-degradant (on press and off) that is much gentler (and probably a bit cheaper than the Safety-Kleen to boot)?
Do you wash the results down a drain?
Ozzyjuice SW-1 and the heated parts cleaner tank. We use it only now. If you want to know where to order one contact Andy DaSilva or Jimmy Ormand at M&R. We don't sell it but highly recommend it and have the pricing from the company thT is in Georgia.
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Don McQueen and his number is (770) 426-7259
He's a great guy. I think SW-1 sells for around $85 in a 5er...not including shipping. He also sells the heated parts washers.
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Ozzyjuice SW-1 and the heated parts cleaner tank. We use it only now. If you want to know where to order one contact Andy DaSilva or Jimmy Ormand at M&R. We don't sell it but highly recommend it and have the pricing from the company thT is in Georgia.
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That stuff is amazing! Mr. Hoffman was nice enough to show us this stuff and WOW!!!! Cleaned off a plastisol squeegee as if it had waterbased ink on it, there was nothing to it!
www.chemfree.com (http://www.chemfree.com)
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Smart Washer's stuff seems to be the solution I'm looking for, thanks all.
Andy at M&R got me Don McQueen's contact info (that phone number listed above no longer works).
http://mcqueenenv.com/ (http://mcqueenenv.com/) is his site.
SmartWasher tells me you can order these through local autoparts stores like Advance or O'reilly's - but they can't find the right size wiper blade for a car, so it's no surprise that that route didn't work.
Now I'll just need a ink degradant to wash screens with (i'm just planning on using the smartwasher for squeegees and ink scrapers).
What's the best stuff to have the least amount of worries about clogging up the plumbing?
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So does this chem only really work/shine with a heated parts washer?
I have a parts washer in use already, currently running PCS 1000 from Tractor Supply... it works pretty well with the flow through brush we have rigged up.
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So does this chem only really work/shine with a heated parts washer?
I have a parts washer in use already, currently running PCS 1000 from Tractor Supply... it works pretty well with the flow through brush we have rigged up.
Their parts washer is unique in that it has a paper filter in layers that needs be disposed of weekly(?) to trap the particles of a certain size. I think the heat is required to allow the biological agents to live/work. I don't know what happens if the power goes out in winter...
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OK, so what are the costs on the unit and "juice"?
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What's the point of press wash and screen opener anyway...I've never used either or needed them.
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We clean ours by hand; ICC 926 (I think) Spray and Wipe, and a single wiper and about 45 seconds per 14" squeegee. Sometimes we'll let them build up and take them to the screen cleaner (Cincinnati Screen Washer w/Mineral Spirits) but if they need a blade now, the 926 is as quick as it gets...
Steve
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What's the point of press wash and screen opener anyway...I've never used either or needed them.
Used mainly for Solvent based inks, but I think they make them for water based inks too.
We print both of those here and never use screen opener or press wash here. Laq. thinner gets the job done for solvent based inks, and water works on water base.
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What's the point of press wash and screen opener anyway...I've never used either or needed them.
Press Wash is for cleaning screens you want to use again, color changes and just basic plastisol ink removal. It is not harsh and does not hurt the emulsion.
Screen opener is for tough hard to get out ink. Made for when ink get caught in the screen openings (stencil). I use it also for color changes after all the ink is removed with a press wash. It stinks and it will eat plastic but it cleans off everything.
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OK, so what are the costs on the unit and "juice"?
expensive. the cheapest unit is roughly $1600. $85 per for [gallon?] top up. $17 per filter (four individual use layers).
For me, coming from Safety-Kleen, it's a one time cost about equivalent to a year of SK. (including the shipping and enough solution and filters for a year)
Plus it needs be plugged in round the clock. The claim is the heat element (the biological monsters needs a certain heat range) uses about the equiv of one 150 incandescent light bulb on all the time.
Bonuses: not a solvent, not going to lock in images in the screen mesh. not a solvent - doesn't need a haz mat man to come take it away once a month. not a solvent - don't need gloves/mask to use. not a subscription service.
McQueen says depending on usage, filter layer needs tossed about once a month (manufacturer suggests once a week but are mostly looking at auto shops). The solution doesn't need dumped, effectively ever, just topped up as it disappears to evaporation and leaving on washed "parts."
Screen print shops need to pour the solution into a container regularly (once a quarter perhaps, depending on usage), dispose of the accumulated plastisol and then pour the solution back in.
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What's the point of press wash and screen opener anyway...I've never used either or needed them.
Press Wash is for cleaning screens you want to use again, color changes and just basic plastisol ink removal. It is not harsh and does not hurt the emulsion.
Screen opener is for tough hard to get out ink. Made for when ink get caught in the screen openings (stencil). I use it also for color changes after all the ink is removed with a press wash. It stinks and it will eat plastic but it cleans off everything.
I card off ink, paper towel off most of the rest, then use dollar store counter top wipes (basically generic clorox wipes) to get the rest off. Never had an issue with a color change on press using this, even going from white to black or with stuff like reds and navy/royal that may take one extra wipe. Emulsion holds up just fine as well. If I store a screen off press and just want the ink off, I just hit it with 701 and rinse off in my booth. Good as new...
I can't really think of a time when I've had ink get stuck in a screen in a way that one of these same wipes wouldnt get it out as well. What kind of inks are yall using that are getting stuck in a screen mid run...
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So does this chem only really work/shine with a heated parts washer?
I have a parts washer in use already, currently running PCS 1000 from Tractor Supply... it works pretty well with the flow through brush we have rigged up.
Their parts washer is unique in that it has a paper filter in layers that needs be disposed of weekly(?) to trap the particles of a certain size. I think the heat is required to allow the biological agents to live/work. I don't know what happens if the power goes out in winter...
well, I modded my parts washer to use an oil filter so I got that covered. I just wonder about this heat deal.
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I've sampled some specific press washes from suppliers, with no great wow factor and adds costs.
I have used in past print shops 2 way thinners, and turps for plastisol cleaning.
Turps is what I use in my print shop now for plastisol cleanup.
I've had no issues, we finish up with another common solvent called kumclean (unsure of what it is) before reclaiming or if going from say red to white. Wipe with dry rag to dry off.
Perhaps it's just what I'm used to and don't know any better.
Am I missing out on anything special?
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well, I modded my parts washer to use an oil filter so I got that covered. I just wonder about this heat deal.
I was told at M&R that this stuff doesn't do anything unless it is heated. I also had a chance to try it out and it worked great.
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Having done this every way from bleach to one step dip tanks, I have always preferred a 3 spray bottle 5 screen set method. Now we at Xenon have a fairly low cost set of 3 chemicals. 1. Xen Magic (Ink degrader) $27.50 per Gallon. 2. XER 25 (Stencil Remover) $3.66 per Gallon. 3. Degreaser $11 per Gallon.
I know there is no haze removal step. This is because the Xen Magic removes all the ink as if the screen is new. The Xen Magic could be used in a pinch for existing haze. In my almost 30 years of cleaning screens I have not seen an ink degrader as good as Xen Magic which contains 0 VOC's and is septic, drain and sewer safe.
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Last time I checked Don said it was $85 per 5 gallon...and yes, it must be warm. Cold doesn't do crap. Don's price is a few bucks less than Napa, and I'd rather order from him anyway. I think every part store has done something to piss me off at one point.
Sonny's XenMagic is very good cold though. Both of them have their place. I have a gallon of it here and I thought it was a solvent, but it's water based.