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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: TTT on August 11, 2014, 03:37:32 PM

Title: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: TTT on August 11, 2014, 03:37:32 PM
400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person.  Don't believe it, see for yourself.  www.mrprint.com/DSR5 (http://www.mrprint.com/DSR5) and for a full 30 minutes UNCUT try www.mrprint.com/DSR30 (http://www.mrprint.com/DSR30)

Alex sure makes it look easy.  Nice work Alex!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jvanick on August 11, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
That is truly way cool... not to mention consistent and super easy to train for.

between that screen room 'setup' and a challenger iiiD, I can't wait till we can afford to have the whole setup.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: GraphicDisorder on August 11, 2014, 03:57:06 PM
Man that rocks!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 11, 2014, 03:57:52 PM
Quite a SYSTEM
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on August 11, 2014, 03:58:46 PM
Wow. What is that room worth? About 150K?
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: mk162 on August 11, 2014, 04:14:51 PM
what is genius about it is that while the machines themselves aren't insanely fast at what they do, you have time to do several things at once to keep it flowing...toss a DTG in there and BOOM! you're set.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: kirkage on August 11, 2014, 04:34:00 PM
he should be printing too, the slacker  ;D
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: dirkdiggler on August 11, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
awesome!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: mk162 on August 11, 2014, 05:17:04 PM
also, I wish I had that kind of space in my screenroom.  I didn't realize how big the I-image is and it's a little tight in there now.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: DannyGruninger on August 11, 2014, 05:33:02 PM
Damn, Rich finally made Alex work a full day.....  ;D
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: alan802 on August 11, 2014, 06:31:35 PM
meh :)  Yeah, I guess that's ok.  I need all of that right now, I lost 66% of my labor force today and I'd kind of like to not replace any of them and that room would help achieve that, but then I'd have nobody to unload and catch shirts...decisions.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on August 11, 2014, 06:37:09 PM
meh :)  Yeah, I guess that's ok.  I need all of that right now, I lost 66% of my labor force today and I'd kind of like to not replace any of them and that room would help achieve that, but then I'd have nobody to unload and catch shirts...decisions.
They do have an automatic unloader... what is it again? Passport I believe.  ;)
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: alan802 on August 11, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
meh :)  Yeah, I guess that's ok.  I need all of that right now, I lost 66% of my labor force today and I'd kind of like to not replace any of them and that room would help achieve that, but then I'd have nobody to unload and catch shirts...decisions.
They do have an automatic unloader... what is it again? Passport I believe.  ;)

That's it, I've watched that thing with lot's of thoughts going through my head on many occasions.  I just sent that video to Shop Mom Money Bags with a note saying we won't have to hire 2 people if she'd just ok the purchase of the STE II.  Well, I'd need a part-timer to clean screens but it doesn't take too long to clean 25-30 screens per day.  We'll be spending a lot less time doing pre-press so that might make it ok to run the auto sometimes with just one person loading and unloading.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 11, 2014, 07:21:49 PM
Damn, Rich finally made Alex work a full day.....  ;D
actually we ask h to walk slow so there would be no comments that employees won't work that fast and still did over 400'
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jvanick on August 11, 2014, 07:31:35 PM
actually we ask h to walk slow so there would be no comments that employees won't work that fast and still did over 400'

ROFL.. that's awesome.

Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Alex M on August 11, 2014, 08:09:25 PM
he should be printing too, the slacker  ;D

Man you and danny are hard on me... hahaha.
Really cool technology, It's a blast to be a part of.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: GraphicDisorder on August 12, 2014, 06:37:12 AM
Rich if one of those STE's come up missing DO NOT get mad at Alex for shipping it to me, it was a accident.  LOL
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 12, 2014, 06:51:08 AM
Rich if one of those STE's come up missing DO NOT get mad at Alex for shipping it to me, it was a accident.  LOL
he better be in the crate as well! LOL! I am out of the country so I have not seen the finished version. Did they post the diazo blend one as well?
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Mark @ Hurricane Printing on August 12, 2014, 09:39:04 AM
not that im looking to buy one or any position to buy one...but i have a question about the coater.....does it only hold aluminum frames?>..Can newman roller frames be used in the auto coater?
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: DannyGruninger on August 12, 2014, 09:45:57 AM
not that im looking to buy one or any position to buy one...but i have a question about the coater.....does it only hold aluminum frames?>..Can newman roller frames be used in the auto coater?

Yes, we use the uni kote daily with both static screens and newman frames.......You don't have to make any changes to the coater at all. We coat a static, then a newman back to back. I didn't think the coating machine was going to be as big of an impact as it has been in my shop. One of those machines that you don't realize what your missing until you have one. It has saved us a boatload in emulsion and made life really nice around here.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 12, 2014, 11:00:18 AM
I am fortunate enough to have a coater that does two screens at a time and the STEII. Each one on its own is a great improvement, together, what can I say. Unfortunately we still develpoe the old fashioned way with a dip tank and pressure washer.   :-[
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: mk162 on August 12, 2014, 11:05:25 AM
honestly, it's more like babysitting than printing...which is how it should be.  Make a task as simple as possible and you are removing variables.  Offset printers did this years ago with direct to plate, and of course their presses are virtually pre-registered anyway.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: sqslabs on August 12, 2014, 11:07:16 AM
I'll just leave this right here..   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_Center_at_Whipple%27s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_Center_at_Whipple%27s)


 ;D
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bulldog on August 12, 2014, 11:13:39 AM
I'll just leave this right here..   

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_Center_at_Whipple%27s[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brain_Center_at_Whipple%27s[/url])


 ;D


Haha, I don't think it's a desire to replace people with machines as much as it's so hard to find good help!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jvanick on August 12, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
and consistency...  an autocoater will be on the list at around the same time (or maybe even before) a DTS for us.

no matter how good you are at coating screens, variances in pressure and/or speed will == different thicknesses of emulsion
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 12, 2014, 11:27:07 AM
I had a long rebuttal to a few of the above comments, but decided it best not to post. I'll just say we have never eliminated an employee in the process of automating. And SO many things are better.

Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bulldog on August 12, 2014, 11:45:49 AM
I would never eliminate a good employee because I could automate the position if that's how my post seemed. If I was trying to automate something and it happened to pretty much all but remove a person's job I would retrain them in something else...allow them to move up within the company. Good employees are hard to find so I would never get rid of one.

On the flip side, if I had to decide between hiring someone new or getting an automated machine to replace a task *I* was doing, I would have to think long and hard about that.

Not that any of this is a problem for me yet. =)
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 12, 2014, 11:49:58 AM
Exactly. One thing it has helped us with is keeping everyone employed, but reducing overtime. Running 2+ presses instead of 1+. A lot of smaller things happen too. But all driven by good/great employees. It wouldn't make a bit of difference if I could make all the screens, if I didn't have a competent crew to set up, and run the jobs.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: sqslabs on August 12, 2014, 11:55:41 AM
'Twas just a joke fellas..  I would have all of those machines in my shop if money allowed. 

And then I'd fire everyone.   :D

Great episode if you haven't seen it, though.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 3Deep on August 12, 2014, 11:59:09 AM
All this stuff is great, but what size shops would benefit from having this equipment?, I know our little two man shop, it would take years to get ROI unless we are super productive then we would have employee's.  Now on the flip side if I had all that equipment I might not have to have as much help hmm, but I'd better be running my press everyday.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bulldog on August 12, 2014, 12:05:33 PM
I think it would benefit any growing shop. I mean growing fast. Yes, they're expensive, but if they can help you do a job faster/better/more efficiently then in turn that should allow you to crank out work faster than you are now and help you grow even more.

If you're only coating 5 screens a day or so then sure, I don't see much of a point other than it's really cool.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 12, 2014, 12:09:36 PM
I apologize if I took it wrong. That's why I often bite my tongue here.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: GraphicDisorder on August 12, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
I can't wait to get DTS in our shop.  We are right back to the edge of making another choice of add hands again or improve the speed of a process. 
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: alan802 on August 12, 2014, 01:53:29 PM
If you guys had the 2 boobs that I've had working with the screens you'd feel perfectly fine with replacing them with a machine. I guess I'll start a new thread with the latest happenings here.  I've got a new artist and 2 openings out in production that I'm going to try and fill with one full-timer and one part-timer.  But I'd really like to fill the one full time position with a human and the other with a CTS.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: GraphicDisorder on August 12, 2014, 02:03:11 PM
If you guys had the 2 boobs that I've had working with the screens you'd feel perfectly fine with replacing them with a machine. I guess I'll start a new thread with the latest happenings here.  I've got a new artist and 2 openings out in production that I'm going to try and fill with one full-timer and one part-timer.  But I'd really like to fill the one full time position with a human and the other with a CTS.

IMO your shop will need a CTS at some point anyway, might be the writing on the wall to move on with it.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bulldog on August 12, 2014, 02:04:41 PM
Yeah, that seems like a tough decision there. Do you want to go through the trouble of hiring, training (or at least getting someone acclimated to your shop) and then maybe having to go through 2 or 3 to get someone half way decent, plus all the HR headaches. Not to mention if they put you in a bind by quitting. Or option two: get a machine.

I'd be interested to see what the numbers shake out to of hiring(and all the extra costs associated) vs buying the equipment.

Also if there would be sort of a guideline where X number of screens processed a day justifies a Unikote/DTS.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Gilligan on August 12, 2014, 02:17:23 PM
Nothing wrong with two boobs.

But three boobs... that's an entirely different discussion.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J4Js84ecH58/UbhK3amz_WI/AAAAAAABheA/AMFjeFt25JU/s640/2.jpg)
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bimmridder on August 12, 2014, 02:20:24 PM
Alan, I was just going to ask you to send the two boobs here. That's a piece of equipment we're sorely lacking here ;D
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: GraphicDisorder on August 12, 2014, 02:42:04 PM
Someone say boobs? 

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/12494_772925182748515_7710390840107548975_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: ericheartsu on August 12, 2014, 02:48:49 PM
If you guys had the 2 boobs that I've had working with the screens you'd feel perfectly fine with replacing them with a machine. I guess I'll start a new thread with the latest happenings here.  I've got a new artist and 2 openings out in production that I'm going to try and fill with one full-timer and one part-timer.  But I'd really like to fill the one full time position with a human and the other with a CTS.

come on over and check ours out!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: mk162 on August 12, 2014, 02:52:18 PM
I would never fire somebody and replace them with a machine, but I would and have bough a piece of equipment to try and prevent hiring...I can't think of any business owner that wouldn't consider it.

It's not malicious by any means.  If we all thought that way we will still be using stat cameras and rubylith, and those scratch off letters and numbers.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 3Deep on August 12, 2014, 04:07:43 PM
Hiring a printer is the reason we have an auto right now, cheaper and more dependable...

darryl
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jsheridan on August 13, 2014, 10:02:18 AM
Leave it up to me to be the only one who brings attention to the fact that when you introduce freshly coated screens into a dry environment, those dried screens begin to absorb the residual moisture, which in turn starts to alter the chemistry. It's been a time honored standard that we don't expose damp screens. With all the chatter about moisture meters, dehumidifiers and what not to produce the best possible screen that we can here comes the one company that has the power, resources to maintain this standard who is willing to throw it all out the window in the name of speed..

speed for what..

I love technology, love that this amount of work can be done by a single person but if dropping proper screen room etiquette is the trade off, count me out.

Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: mk162 on August 13, 2014, 10:06:56 AM
If the room air is dehumidified, I doubt there is much change by introducing wet screens.  You'd have to really have to have a lot of screens and open emulsion in there and an underpowered unit to drastically alter the moisture level of a room.

Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: bulldog on August 13, 2014, 10:11:33 AM
If the room air is dehumidified, I doubt there is much change by introducing wet screens.  You'd have to really have to have a lot of screens and open emulsion in there and an underpowered unit to drastically alter the moisture level of a room.

Right...and who says you have to have it configured exactly like this? This was all open/lighted for demo/camera purposes. You could build a separate room(s) if so inclined and still be super efficient.

Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jsheridan on August 13, 2014, 10:21:04 AM
If the room air is dehumidified, I doubt there is much change by introducing wet screens.  You'd have to really have to have a lot of screens and open emulsion in there and an underpowered unit to drastically alter the moisture level of a room.

We coat in the afternoon.

My screen room sits at 38-40% humidity with a 90 pint machine and A/C running all day

10 minutes after coating, that shoots up to 46-48% and it then takes a few hours for the room to stablize after that.

let me add, we only have 125 screens and coat on average 50 a day. I can't image what a room filled with a couple hundred screens would do to that humidity level.



Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 3Deep on August 13, 2014, 11:12:10 AM
A shop that needs 400 screens in a day as to be rocking, I know that was just for demo, but I'm just saying wow for those that run 100 or so screens a day.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: tonypep on August 13, 2014, 11:29:54 AM
meh :)  Yeah, I guess that's ok.  I need all of that right now, I lost 66% of my labor force today and I'd kind of like to not replace any of them and that room would help achieve that, but then I'd have nobody to unload and catch shirts...decisions.
They do have an automatic unloader... what is it again? Passport I believe.  ;)

Yes it's called a Passport. Quite a feat of engineering, they have been around for quite some time. There were five of them at Marc Ecko's production facility in NJ. The are adjustable and require specialized pallets. Not for most facilities though. There are some issues. And they had more than a few up there!
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Admiral on August 13, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
If the room air is dehumidified, I doubt there is much change by introducing wet screens.  You'd have to really have to have a lot of screens and open emulsion in there and an underpowered unit to drastically alter the moisture level of a room.

We coat in the afternoon.

My screen room sits at 38-40% humidity with a 90 pint machine and A/C running all day

10 minutes after coating, that shoots up to 46-48% and it then takes a few hours for the room to stablize after that.

let me add, we only have 125 screens and coat on average 50 a day. I can't image what a room filled with a couple hundred screens would do to that humidity level.

There are different and easy ways to configure a system to work better.  Also M&R was just demonstrating the efficiency of their equipment and what IS possible.  Wouldn't be hard to add 5 seconds of walking per screen to place the freshly coated screens in a separate area.

We use a couple large closets with dry air intake, heated inside, and exhaust up top to completely dry up to 50 screens in 2 hours.  This is inside of the whole dark room to the side of our CTS. Once dry they are stored on shelves along the wall to be imaged when needed.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jvanick on August 13, 2014, 11:58:24 AM
Quote
Wouldn't be hard to add 5 seconds of walking per screen to place the freshly coated screens in a separate area.

and the guy still wouldn't be breaking a sweat.

if/when I get that setup, I'd have the washout machine outside the screen room as well.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 13, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Quote
Wouldn't be hard to add 5 seconds of walking per screen to place the freshly coated screens in a separate area.

and the guy still wouldn't be breaking a sweat.

if/when I get that setup, I'd have the washout machine outside the screen room as well.
the Eco-rinse machine was outside of the room and this in no way was to represent how to set up the room. It was done for do purposes only to show the speed of the process with the right equipment.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jvanick on August 13, 2014, 12:13:28 PM
what's the list like on the eco rinse machine?
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 13, 2014, 12:30:00 PM
what's the list like on the eco rinse machine?
28k
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: ABuffington on August 13, 2014, 02:11:26 PM
How is the stencil strength of water base, discharge, and HSA inks using this exposure process?
Anyone have some run quantities using these systems on these inks?


Alan
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Underbase37 on August 13, 2014, 02:39:29 PM
Mr. Hoffman

What is the price on the uni-coat? Also do the blue screen racks come in taller sizes & the price of them.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jsheridan on August 13, 2014, 03:28:30 PM
Also do the blue screen racks come in taller sizes & the price of them.

I asked alex about those last year at the SGIA show and was told.. not for sale! custom made especially for the room they go it..

has that changed because they really are wicked awesome racks. what we don't see if the back has a small opening for a dehumidifier.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Underbase37 on August 13, 2014, 03:43:15 PM
Also do the blue screen racks come in taller sizes & the price of them.

I asked alex about those last year at the SGIA show and was told.. not for sale! custom made especially for the room they go it..

has that changed because they really are wicked awesome racks. what we don't see if the back has a small opening for a dehumidifier.
Hmmm. I guess I'm back to fabricating my own.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 13, 2014, 04:18:34 PM
Mr. Hoffman

What is the price on the uni-coat? Also do the blue screen racks come in taller sizes & the price of them.
around 15k
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jsheridan on August 13, 2014, 05:55:57 PM
around 15k

Think I asked you before.. handles a 28 x 38 frame size?

I really want to buy a coater but our screen size limits what we can buy.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: 244 on August 13, 2014, 06:13:01 PM
around 15k

Think I asked you before.. handles a 28 x 38 frame size?

I really want to buy a coater but our screen size limits what we can buy.
handles up to at least 50x 50
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: jsheridan on August 13, 2014, 06:24:17 PM

handles up to at least 50x 50

Nice!! See ya in long beach  8)
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Underbase37 on August 13, 2014, 11:17:12 PM
Alex or Rich

Maybe I missed it but what emulsion was being used?

Thanks Rich, 15k....not bad.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Alex M on August 13, 2014, 11:24:24 PM
Ulano Orange and Chromaline UDC ACE
The video with the Orange/UDC ACE combo should be up soon.
Title: Re: 400 Screens in 8 hours with 1 person - Coat, Image, Expose & Rinse
Post by: Underbase37 on August 13, 2014, 11:53:40 PM
I think what I was seeing in the 5min. video was the orange. Are you using/checking the UDC-ACE for WB/DC?