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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Gilligan on August 18, 2014, 07:09:54 PM
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Currently I have a 12' Chaparral with a 24" belt.
Well, looks like we might be pulling the trigger on an auto pretty soon.
This dryer isn't gonna cut it for long after that and we also want to start getting into WB and Discharge printing.
I know gas is ideally the way to go but I'm EXTREMELY tight on space, don't have gas plumbed in (but it's available) and electric is REALLY cheap here (just over 8 cents a kw).
I was looking at ideally a Radicure D 36-6/4... it's short, nice heat chamber and with that 4th panel should do ok with the numbers. I'm concern that it's a bit pricey though... anyone know what those puppies go for?
I have someone else suggesting that I get a WorkHorse 3011. 30" belt, 5' heat 11' overall length... 30" would be tight to double stack things and 5' is less than I'd like. They are saying that I could run it backwards and use the "bump" panels (quartz bulbs) to help it a bit on the way out with the WB/Discharge.
I simply can't go over 12'... just not happening. The wider we go the more 12' is actually starting to be a problem as we won't be able to get between the dryer and the press!
What say you guys?
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Pretty sure the new series of M&R dryers will be making their debut at SGIA Vegas in Oct. I would wait to see what pops up!
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Two words here. Gas. Gas
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I have a 3011 and it's nice for what it is. I've dabbled in discharge a little bit and I could get a shirt to discharge after running it through twice with the belt slowed to a crawl. It would pretty much defeat the purpose of an automatic, I would think. There is no forced air in it also.
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Two words here. Gas. Gas
Totally agree with you Dave... But I have a follow up.
19' x 24' production area.
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Sounds like kind of a lateral shift. I'd make a bump panel for what you have already, and keep the dryer upgrade for when you upgrade the space.
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M&R has a pretty bad ass 3x boomerang or whatever in their showroom. Thing is a monster though and probably overkill for what you want.
One thought, you could roll a flash in the last head on your press to help with DC/WB. Or you could roll a flash or two over the indeed or outfeed of the dryer to help. M&R had a dryer made out of a less conveyer belt and flashes at a small local shows here...
30" belt sounds like less of a issue than you are making it out to be. It would be a lot better with a 36" belt though. It sounds like you are going to have more of a space issue than anything. Before you worry about a 48" or 60" belt, worry about more space. Unless you are going to be running the ours balls to the wall all day everyday, a 36"(or maybe even a 30") belt will suit you just fine.
If you don't have gas now then the advantages don't seem as big. Obviously you know most of the advantages(you are no dummy). One thing I love about a gas dryer is- I bet it has been more than a year since I touched or temp on it. Seems like our electric one we have to change the temp all the time.
And what good is a dryer post without someone asking if you have talked to Winstion Strickland? ;D But seriously, have you talked to him? I could of swore he said he has a handful of used dryers in storage....
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I'd look for 8' of heat and go from there. The sad fact of it is with 12' total length and width restrictions, no matter what you find it will likely be the bottleneck of any decent auto you may get, which means your total shop space is the real bottleneck.
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Here is the setup with current dryer and a purposed auto.
It's fairly to scale.
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So when you have to print 6000 shirts where in the world will you stage, fold, and box them? Aren't you in a strip? Can you let the lease run out on the unit next to you and then rethink the dryer size?
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This I s all GREAT input, not a bad idea in the bunch (especially when Alex was talking about how smart I am ;) ).
I actually have a "spare" busted panel... Though I've repaired them before... This one is a bit tougher of a repair but might be worth looking at. My current tunnel is 6' but it only has three 12" panels in it with really lame air knives in there. Maybe I should look into overhauling my current dryer for now. Option 1 is great and I'm gonna really look into that!
Alex, I have always said, as soon as I am serious I will be calling Winston to see what he could build for my space... Thanks for reminding me about that! Option 2 on the plate!
Flash over the belt.. Not a bad idea, though it puts us right back into the oven that we are wanting to get away from by moving from IR flash to quartz... But in a pinch, it's possibly a winner! Option 3, two steps forward one step back but still progress and maybe something to combine with option 1!
Inkworks, yes I know... I just bought the building but that was something I would have wanted if I stayed or not. I'm constantly looking and thinking about ways to move to a bigger space. Option 4 is ALWAYS on the board!
My New Orleans friends, we do have a freight container on the side of the building and even a cargo trailer in the parking lot... We have done 1572 shirts in here once and will be doing 2000 soon... We stacked them almost to the ceiling in front of the heat press/storage shelf area (that spot isn't really to scale and technically there is another single head in there now and a small table in the middle. The idea of letting a tenant's lease lapse and moving in has been discussed... We would essentially take the front 800 sqft and make it our show room, knock a hole through where the heat press area is now. We would then move our desks all into the embroidery area and make the current show room the digital print room and knock down that middle office to expand production.
The only rub in option 5 is, will that be better than $1k a month of rent coming in? As of right now I can't see the elbow room being worth it. Plus how will we keep the cat out of the production area ;). J/k... Sorta.
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Why not a little Fusion, it'll get the job done and when it's time to upgrade it will have resale value.
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Option 6 ain't bad either... What's the price on that puppy and how would the 36" four panel version work for wb/discharge?
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My New Orleans friends, we do have a freight container on the side of the building and even a cargo trailer in the parking lot... We have done 1572 shirts in here once and will be doing 2000 soon... We stacked them almost to the ceiling in front of the heat press/storage shelf area (that spot isn't really to scale and technically there is another single head in there now and a small table in the middle. The idea of letting a tenant's lease lapse and moving in has been discussed... We would essentially take the front 800 sqft and make it our show room, knock a hole through where the heat press area is now. We would then move our desks all into the embroidery area and make the current show room the digital print room and knock down that middle office to expand production.
The only rub in option 5 is, will that be better than $1k a month of rent coming in? As of right now I can't see the elbow room being worth it. Plus how will we keep the cat out of the production area ;). J/k... Sorta.
Didn't know you had the freight container, that will help. As for the cat...just run it through the dryer and problem solved! I didn't figure you for a cat person!?
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So you won't have a manual press at all anymore?
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So you won't have a manual press at all anymore?
Scary, but no... No room.
Options there are bring it back to my shop behind my house and worse case scenario print and flash everything then bring it to the shop and run it down the dryer OR pack it in the freight container as well and if needed break it out and set it up where ever I can (embroidery room) and print there then carry to the drier on the other room.
I will have my one color station with jiffy clamps if needed. ;)
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Didn't know you had the freight container, that will help. As for the cat...just run it through the dryer and problem solved! I didn't figure you for a cat person!?
Funny how that is... It goes both ways.
Not a dog person, cats, reptiles and insects... I guess I don't like needy things. Cats, reptiles and insects can be left on their own for a week at a time... Dog, not so much, and they stink and you can punch it in the face then turn around and say "who's a good boy" and that tail starts wagging again.
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you can always get a single color and put it on wheels and in the container when not needed. We rarely use our manual, we print slow loading single color prints to take the load off the auto so that can churn numbers
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That's why I would keep a hinge clamp single color around... Back to my roots!
That and could set up aop one color prints or something creative with it.
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I have a 3011, and it definitely does discharge just fine...
just ran an order with it last week.
is it slow as molasses when the belt speed is slow? YES, definitely. But it will work. And I've never had to run a garment through 2x to get it to discharge... slowest belt speed = 1 minute 45 seconds in the heat. Also, it does have air recirculation.
However, when we move to the commercial space, a gas dryer is first on the list...
also, not having a manual press could be a major hindrance if you're printing on anything unique, things with zippers, polo shirts with buttons, etc.
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So when you have to print 6000 shirts where in the world will you stage, fold, and box them?
That is kinda what I was getting at in my earlier ramblings. But you have a few GREAT possibilities going for you.
1) Since you own the place now you can let the lease run out for a tenant if you need their space. Yes, you should be able to make more that $1K out of the extra space as long as you have the work to keep the press spinning!
2) While this one is kinda out there, it could still work. Since you lucky ba$tards get to have shipping containers, you could always turn one into the embroidery room.... I don't know if yours is water/insect tight but you can make those suckers pretty nice. Line all the machines up against a wall, throw a table on each side and maybe one or two in between, maybe some windows and a AC. You would have your own contained embroidery dept.
I like option number 2 probably just because the city won't let us have a container! Option 1 is really my favorite, and had been the main thing I thought was great for you ever since you told me about wanting to buy your building. They hold your place AND pay you rent while you grow into their space!
You don't want to move locations, people are stupid. Let me say that again, people are stupid. We once moved 1 door over, same building, just 1 door over. You literally walked on the sidewalk 16' to the left. We had so many people calling us to see if we were still in business or where we went. We even had 4'x2' arrows pointing to our new door. People are stupid.
Get your auto, and give it a few months to see what kind of volume you are going to be putting into the dryer. Then move on a dryer. If you continue to grow, then start mapping out your setup WITH the extra sq. footage of taking over the space next door.
Also, find a way to put your manual on wheels and keep it near the dryer for 6 months or whatever and see how much you will or won't use it. Don't know what you got till it's gone and all that...
You also said you were going to pay me for saying you were smart! ;D
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I have a 3011, and it definitely does discharge just fine...
just ran an order with it last week.
is it slow as molasses when the belt speed is slow? YES, definitely. But it will work. And I've never had to run a garment through 2x to get it to discharge... slowest belt speed = 1 minute 45 seconds in the heat. Also, it does have air recirculation.
However, when we move to the commercial space, a gas dryer is first on the list...
also, not having a manual press could be a major hindrance if you're printing on anything unique, things with zippers, polo shirts with buttons, etc.
When I was trying the DC the curing recommendations were 2-3 minutes I thought. I noticed much more pop after the second time. It is entirely possible I wasn't doing everything correctly either. Either way, still way too slow for an auto and DC, IMO.
Also, that air recirculation is a little blower wheel at the bottom that aids in maintaining the heat but I don't think it really helps with DC at all.
I will say that the 3011 gets up to temp FAST and maintains it very well.
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No way can I keep that manual in the room... Even pulling the arms off would be hard to justify the space it would take up.
If I'm not held back by the space then it can't make me money, it just makes us more comfortable.
Just so you know article 23 paragraph 6 says that if you mention the agreement online then it rendered the contract null and void! You sir are in breech of said contract... Now who's smart?! :p
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Lawson, Ranar, BBC all make good compact dryers. Want to save some space? How bout Vastex?
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My main focus is getting decent waterbase numbers... We don't mind slowing down, even 250/hour would be fine.
Vastex says they can do 200/hour but is that real world? Waterbase is not really exact science and we are technically in a high humidity area, making the odds worse. If I could expand the big red by half a cab then I'd be interested but to get the size tunnel I would want then I'm over 13'.
Not sure any other setups mentioned will fill that Gerry.
Anyone have any experience with the new browns? One of our competitors has one and likes it, but them again they are also happy with their mini trooper. ;)
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pcs/hr is a pretty relative thing, we can easily cruise at 50+doz./hr on left chest or say a 4" x 12" print on my crappy dryer, however when we get hit with a 16 x 14" print things slow down to the point where one person can keep up loading/unloading, maybe 25 doz/hr.
All this is with a 90 second dryer dwell, or 120 seconds for DC/WB and no air movement in the dryer, just plain IR, but 8' of it.
I think the real key is you're better off not buying the dryer you need right now, but the dryer you'll need once your volume ramps up from having the auto in house for a year or so, or you'll be doing it all over again, because getting an auto and learning how to rock it is a game changer.
ps, better make sure your auto doesn't have side clamps or you're already out of room.
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Here is the setup with current dryer and a purposed auto.
It's fairly to scale.
That press really nearly touching the wall? How are you going to get screens in a few of those heads, crawl under it? Let's hope you considered the needed space to walk around it completely with screens/ink/sq + fl bars.
If not then IMO you kick out a tenant and free yourself up.
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My main focus is getting decent waterbase numbers... We don't mind slowing down, even 250/hour would be fine.
Vastex says they can do 200/hour but is that real world? Waterbase is not really exact science and we are technically in a high humidity area, making the odds worse.
For the record I have NO experience running DC/WB through a electric dryer. I do know on some jobs we run that are all DC, when we have a flash somewhere in the print sequence even on a 3 sec flash it starts the discharge process rather well on the colors it flashed. So don't underestimate what a flash can do under the last head or even the unload position to speed the process up...
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I won't Alex... It's certainly top of mind potential solution.
Brandt and Ink, you guys are right. Side clamps would be a potential problem and yes it's basically going to be up against a couple walls. I'm HOPING I can keep it where we can at least squeeze by, but if worse comes to worse we will climb under. Seems silly but at this point there will be compromises made. Full 23x31's and crawling under vs cu$tom made reten$ if we bought a "compact" machine. We are hoping to set up the press where crawling under will only happen when we run more colors than typical, again, totally not ideal, but you do what you have to do. My production manager would be wiling to give a kidney to get an auto right now so he's ok with it.
Btw, I couldn't help it, I took a ride back to the office last night... Adding a fourth panel is POSSIBLE but would really mean a rework of the dryer. Removing a couple support beams for the frame that holds the panels and deleting the air knives in between panels. Four panels would butt up against each other and I could leave the last knife at the end of the tunnel which would circulate air through but not directly on the shirts really.
Still looking, still thinking.
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Sounds like you need that "oval" that ran like a severely squished rollercoaster ;) Wish I could find that vid. It was one of the dumbest ideas in the history of ever.
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What's the rent per month you'd be out kicking out the next tenant? Your gonna be in a mess when someone drops 5k order on you. You will have sacrificed your dryer, you press location, space to stage garments and so on all in the name of speed/ease of printing which will be dictated by your space/dryer. No bueno.
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Brandt, as I mentioned earlier, it's about $1k/month. My rent from my two tenants cover my note on this building, leaving me "rent free". I'd be giving this up for that comfort/efficiency.
If it becomes an issue then absolutely, it's an option on the table. Personally, I'd rather move and start collection $1,800+ a month on my current space and put that near 3k/month towards a new place. that has more than 2,400 sqft of space. Ideally I'd be in 4,000 sqft or more... actually I'd like 3,000+ sqft and then enough extra room to build a half decent apartment out of the extra space that I could live in and then rent out my current home. I'd get more work done, save money on lunch and technically save money on gas... but I'll be honest, I'm 5 mins from work now.
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Brandt, as I mentioned earlier, it's about $1k/month. My rent from my two tenants cover my note on this building, leaving me "rent free". I'd be giving this up for that comfort/efficiency.
If it becomes an issue then absolutely, it's an option on the table. Personally, I'd rather move and start collection $1,800+ a month on my current space and put that near 3k/month towards a new place. that has more than 2,400 sqft of space. Ideally I'd be in 4,000 sqft or more... actually I'd like 3,000+ sqft and then enough extra room to build a half decent apartment out of the extra space that I could live in and then rent out my current home. I'd get more work done, save money on lunch and technically save money on gas... but I'll be honest, I'm 5 mins from work now.
I think your on the right track over all with the property being a cash cow. What id suggest is a hybrid of what you are suggesting. Kick the tenant out, get your situation workable for awhile and increase your business. Then move it and rent that place out when you have your auto kicking ass for you and in a better spot to put yourself in a more ideal space.
Living at your shop, been there and done that and you are right for awhile you will get more done. We did it for years. But we also got over comfy over those years and became less efficient taking breaks when you might not if you were at work and so on. Once we moved to our shop we found we were doing the same or more work in less time just due to space and having the desire to "get home". Not saying don't do it, just saying don't get as comfy as we did I think it cost us some growth at times. Not that it didn't create some as well and certainly saved expenses for a long while.
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http://www.digitsmith.com/m-r-36-radicure-d-dryer-41740.html (http://www.digitsmith.com/m-r-36-radicure-d-dryer-41740.html)
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here's an idea too...get a 6 color press for the time being. that would give you more space and you can always hang onto it when you move or sell it and upgrade.
we ran a 6 color for years and outsourced the crazy stuff. frankly, the difference between a 6 and an 8 isn't that much, but it would save you a lot of space.
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Gilligan, I think I found it.. You can thank me later.
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/for/4628735792.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/for/4628735792.html)
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holy cow that thing is crazy. I feel like they forgot to install half of it.
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Gilligan, I think I found it.. You can thank me later.
[url]http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/for/4628735792.html[/url] ([url]http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/for/4628735792.html[/url])
I will need more out feed and a hood... Maybe something else to cool down the shirt before it falls off the belt!
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That's not a problem, belt speed is 1' every 90 seconds.
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[url]http://www.digitsmith.com/m-r-36-radicure-d-dryer-41740.html[/url] ([url]http://www.digitsmith.com/m-r-36-radicure-d-dryer-41740.html[/url])
Well, it's mine!
Getting picked up tomorrow!! Then has to travel the country.
Then I have to figure out how to get this beast in my shop!!!
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What did you end up payin fer it
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What did you end up payin fer it
Asking price... I think it was more than fair. That's from Winston. Nuff said.
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Very nice! Someone is movin' on up!
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Congrats man!
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So here is my front door... No expanding that or putting in a double.
You can see the bay window which is likely what will have to come out (you only see half of both sides).
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Good job, glad you got it. Good luck wrangling it into your shop.
Not messing with you but would it be easier to cut a hole in the roof and set it with a crane?
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This is inside the front door, say hello to Eddie Murphy.
I do have another front door that goes into an 8x13' room which then has to come out the side wall on the other side.
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Don't you have a back door?
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Don't you have a back door?
Negative... here is sat view of place.
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Fire code doesn't say you need a second door?
What's the back of the building constructed out of? Could you put a door in?
Otherwise those windows may be your best option!
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Don't the legs come off?
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We technically have a second door... It's another front door.
Might be why these are double units.