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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: 3Deep on August 26, 2014, 01:51:33 PM
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Please do not name equipment brands, but I call myself doing research on buying a pad printer back in the day worst thing we every did, never made close to any of the money we put out on this machine. Looking back now I should have also research buying the products to be printed with our machine and who our target market would be, we found out that coffee mugs are cheap but shipping them cost as much then you have damage same with other glassware. Most places we bought our blank goods from also did pad printing and what they would sell to us for they could print for the same price or cheaper, but you had to buy a high amount. I hate I bought the machine now which is a nice dust collector, but I also regret not doing all the research that I should have done lesson learned :P
darryl
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Great story... I just bought a pad printer. I hope my story turns out better than yours did.I have no regrets on my purchases yet except that I always out grow my machines much faster than I expect to.
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Blade Runner...........but you knew I was going to say that
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Still have it :o
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It is not the equipment that matters as much as the marketing effort you put into products the equipment can produce.....I know some folks that own "boat anchors" and others that "print money"....It really depends on your effort.....
That said, unless you are willing to invest in a skid of an item, the freight and breakage might do you in.....
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Lots of used padprinters available out there with the same story. They just aren't an easy thing to learn, but once you establish a market, they are great. The last one I bought used was $200, and the first job I ran on it netted us $729.00 in 6 hours.
I don't envy anyone trying to learn them on their own.
I did just buy about 100 new pads off of ebay for $300 for the lot, and some of the larger ones are worth more than that on their own
My best local distributor of drinkware is just closing up their local warehouse and making things difficult for us, but I still get all our glassware and most importantly, Wineglasses from the far side of the country, free shipping due to our volume. 4 skids coming in tomorrow, Fall is Wine Season!
My biggest regret is probably the Squeegee sharpener, but it works like a hot-damn and I can easily get what I paid for it out of it, or more. it just takes up lots of room I could use and we don't abuse our squeegees so it hardly gets touched. 60" 6" diamond wheel and auto feed, the thing is a beast.
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Great story... I just bought a pad printer. I hope my story turns out better than yours did.I have no regrets on my purchases yet except that I always out grow my machines much faster than I expect to.
I hope you do good with yours, learning the pad print was really not hard at all, we had fun printing whenever we did it..pens,golf balls lighters, key chains etc, but the market here ask for small amounts which I thought at the time we could lock down, until I had to purchase products way over the amount we needed, and never print again. We may try it again one day since I'll never get what I put into it, I might as well keep it.
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bought a screen stretcher years ago of dubious design; it had bladders that filled with air to push up on the table holding the frames against mesh locked down in a larger, outer frame. What the hell was I thinking? Stupid is as stupid does...
Steve
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1985 chevy chevette
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I doubt there will be many "honest" answers in this thread even though there have been plenty of "ragrets" and bad equipment purchases that we've all seen fairly up close. Buyer's pride is strong in this industry, and others I'm sure but I don't work in those. I know there are a few things that we almost bought that I'm now glad we didn't. A DTG machine for starters. When I first started working here, the owners were getting the hard sell from the T-jet guys and one of the first assignments I had was to research the T-jet and DTG in general. That was very interesting to say the least. So we were fairly close at one point to buying one of those paper weights and I believe if I would have started here a month later than I did then I would have had to deal with a T-jet the first few months on the job. When going through the auto buying process we could have gone 2 other directions than what we did very easily and one of those 3 choices I do believe we would have regretted it. I've read way too many upset customers and there would have been a huge chance that we would have been disappointed like many others. I just thank my lucky stars that we've got an auto that has done nothing but crank out shirts every day with no headaches or issues...yet.
My biggest regret, not necessarily buying the wrong brand of equipment but close enough: Back when I first started we had nothing but newman roller frames out back and I had a few suppliers trying to sell me on static alums so I bought a few and loved how much lighter and easier they were to handle, yet I knew absolutely nothing about tension or mesh count and knew nothing about stretching and maintaining roller frames. So my idiot brain decided to sell/trade our newman roller frames for static alums and I got rid of about 60 roller frames and acquired/bought around 130-140 statics from many different suppliers. Then the next 2-3 years we struggled to print pretty much every job that came through the door. I finally got fed up with struggling to print white ink on dark garments and started reading everything I could get my eyes on and that's when the thirst for knowledge started with me.
I guess I regret buying the numbering attachment to the Vastex manual press and the Vastex VRS registration system since we got absolutely no time savings while trying to use that regi system over the course of several months. Then I started modifying it and butchered it up pretty good but still never got it to work worth a damn.
I've seen a lot of good buys on this forum over the years and have seen just a few terrible purchases that I know would never be admitted as being a bad buy. I always hold out hope that the purchase doesn't hurt the business too bad and it usually doesn't hurt financially but when you compare it to what they "could/should" have bought I genuinely feel bad for them.
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Second year in business bought a system that made screens you stretch in 3 sec. With a bright flash of light. Everyone has seen them at all the shows... I can in only "Xpress" my disappointment ;)
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I purchased a new piece of equipment shortly after it was first released, and apparently before the manufacturer had worked out the bugs. It's gotten the job done over the years and we've just learned to live with the issues, but I'll be selling it soon and the resale value won't be near what it should be due to the defects. Lame.
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I had a custom made powder glue applicator made for Plastisol Transfers. It works great but takes up three staff and therefore is not practical. It is a great $10,000 boat anchor,
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Bet you think I'm going to say my auto but that's has worked out for us in many way. Pad printer has worked out for us but not used often.
Biggest mistake was the hat attachment for the manual. We had 100% spoilage rate with that thing.
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My biggest regret is buying a small startup package when I started. I didn't know what good equipment was and have since replaced pretty much everything and added new gizmos along the line too. It did get me going long enough to figure out I liked this and could do it on my own though. In my mind I try to justify it as a learning experience. =)
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My biggest regret is buying a small startup package when I started.
Not sure why your would regret that.....You did something many others never get around to......You started....You should be proud.....
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My biggest regret is buying a small startup package when I started.
Not sure why your would regret that.....You did something many others never get around to......You started....You should be proud.....
LOL thanks. I don't regret starting! I regret buying equipment that made life very difficult for a while. Basically, I wish I would have just bought top of the line stuff when I started instead of buying something once...then buying it again. But I didn't know any better.
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Amen to that! I've never regretted buying quality equipment
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Remember do not name brands just what you regretted buying, I got a few other items I regret buying because I wanted to be like the Jones, always a lesson learned or good money out the door. Oh I bought the curve hat attachment for our manual paid for it on one order 1200 caps, I kind of like it even though now we rarely use it, embroidery took over.
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Amen to that! I've never regretted buying quality equipment
I gotta say this rings so true. I've never heard anyone in any profession say they regretted buying quality equipment.
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For us it was direct to garment before the bugs were completely worked out. I won't mention any brand though. The brand has already been mentioned earlier in the thread. We live and learn. I ended up practically giving it away.
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I don't have a problem naming brands...especially in my case where it was an old piece that was a little too abused and needed too much work, coupled with the low margins, it was a bad idea.
We probably could have done well in a different market though.
I regret buying a numbering attachment as well. It's much easier to cad-cut them, but at the time there was no charcoal material I could find. I have since found it and it's great. The unit still has the ink in it from 3 years ago...i will probably clean it out and recycle the aluminum.
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That's a hard ROI unless you're in the "Trophy Shop" segment. Even then..........
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After thinking about this a little I did buy a halogen exposure unit. I still use it as a light table but I hated burning screens on it. I am thinking I may try a DIY conversion to LED.
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We're also regretting the diptank. I think it'll become a post exposure tank and we'll go back to the stack method of reclaiming as we find it just as fast and we end up with a cleaner screen.
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We're also regretting the diptank. I think it'll become a post exposure tank and we'll go back to the stack method of reclaiming as we find it just as fast and we end up with a cleaner screen.
I tried the stack method two weeks ago and it was pretty fast but I had 2 screens lock up because I guess the 701 dried just enough while de-inking the other screens that it locked in the emulsion. I guess we could still do the stack method but spray out the 701 right away instead of working 5 screens in a row and then let the emulsion remover soak while we're working the other screens. What is your technique exactly? Is it like the video that was posted 2 weeks ago?
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Most of my regrets were bought used and sold for about what I pad for them. So not really regrets, and you don't know unless you try.
That said:
Numbering attachment. I'm sure it's great for the right shop, but for my tiny shop cutting and heat pressing numbers works. Bought it new, used it a couple of times, and sold it for less than half of what I paid for it.
Hat attachment. I bought two different types. Both new. I wasted way more money of hats that went in the garbage. But we blew Bink out of the water with our 25% success rate. All this to do orders of 12. Sold one for about half of what I paid. Plus the cost of the just for men for all the white hairs it caused me.
Old embroidery machine. I bought it used. Not a bad price. Never saw it run. It sat for a while and now the tech tells me it probably needs more work than what it's worth. Note to self: make sure I see things run before I buy it.
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I tried the stack method two weeks ago and it was pretty fast but I had 2 screens lock up because I guess the 701 dried just enough while de-inking the other screens that it locked in the emulsion. I guess we could still do the stack method but spray out the 701 right away instead of working 5 screens in a row and then let the emulsion remover soak while we're working the other screens. What is your technique exactly? Is it like the video that was posted 2 weeks ago?
I wouldn't stack with 701, it needs no dwell time to work. We do it similar to the video, but with less wasted movement, and we clam-shell the screens shirt side together so the mesh touches in pairs to help keep them from drying out. Usually stacks of 10-14pcs.
First screen goes squeegee side up, quick scrub with a gong or scouring pad dipped (alternating ends so you don't get too much chemical) in chemical scrub, flip screen, dip, scrub. Second screen starts sgueegee side down, dip, scrub flip, dip scrub, flip. Third starts squeegee side up, etc. etc. Basically whatever orientation the top screen in the stack is, the next screen starts in the same orientation, but ends up opposite after the flip. Clamshelling them like this really helps keep the chemical wet on the bottom of the stack while you work.
If you really wanted to do it right, you'd flip the stack and start pressure washing from the bottom, but I'm not sure if I'd try that with Newmans, and it's definitely a 2 man job. We mostly don't bother.
Edit: ...Actually, upon reading your post more carefully I'm not sure I understand. 701 locked up while you were de-inking? We do the stack 3 times with the same batch of screens so we'd never have 701 sitting on screens while de-inking.
De-ink 10-14 screens & rinse all of them
emulsion remover 10-14 screens & rinse all of them
De-haze 10-14 screens & rinse all of them
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using a homemade exposure unit toooo long over my msp3140
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having too many sizes of screen frames
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having too many sizes of screen frames
This too.
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Leasing our first auto with a $1 buyout. Man we paid way more for that press than we should have. We upgraded before the lease ended and had to pay off the lease in order to sell it. Our two upgrades were cash and it felt sooooooooo much better. I guess you have to start somewhere and that first auto helped get us to where we are now so I guess it wasn't all bad.
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using a homemade exposure unit toooo long over my msp3140
That I can relate... still my favorite piece of gear in my shop!
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Leasing our first auto with a $1 buyout. Man we paid way more for that press than we should have. We upgraded before the lease ended and had to pay off the lease in order to sell it. Our two upgrades were cash and it felt sooooooooo much better. I guess you have to start somewhere and that first auto helped get us to where we are now so I guess it wasn't all bad.
You mean vs not borrowing at all?
Because when I'm done I'll be about 25% over purchase price. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.
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leasing a copy machine. >:(
don't even get me going on this piece of chit....spend 3-4k and buy a decent one and end it....
I want to pearl harbor the salesman in the parking lot...
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using a homemade exposure unit toooo long over my msp3140
That I can relate... still my favorite piece of gear in my shop!
Same here... except we went from a FL unit with foam hold down (no vacuum) to a Starlight.
I almost over-research every purchase we make, so I'm happy with just about every piece of equipment we have used, and they all have made us money.
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panel frames...i bought 5 of them....and two of them refuse to keep the mesh locked in..coated the screens..loaded in the press..came back the next day the meshes were popped out...sent the meshes back thinking they were defective.....loaded the new ones in...same thing...kept popping out....this was two years ago....those two frames been setting unused...i was thinking of sending the frames back and get a refund or replace them but screw it..got tired of dealing with the company and the phone calls....and yes i loaded the meshes with the tool built for it....the other 3 never gave me a problem but i hold back on using them if i can help it...I feel any moment they will pop out.
id be willing to sell them cheap if anyone wants to take a chance on them...id like them all gone.
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leasing a copy machine. >:(
don't even get me going on this piece of chit....spend 3-4k and buy a decent one and end it....
I want to pearl harbor the salesman in the parking lot...
My favorite with those guys, is 3 months after you've had the machine and you call up about a problem. They go, "Oh, well you have the OLD model, the new model doesn't have that issue blah blah blah" B!TCH!, you JUST sold me this crap!!!!
I see it all the time with my clients.
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Some folks should have regrets for not buying equipment sooner versus later.....Over the years I have talked many folks that have been reluctant to take on lease payments for an automatic press....Even though in many cases a press like that will save enough in labour to pay for itself and/or give them a life....
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Some folks should have regrets for not buying equipment sooner versus later.....Over the years I have talked many folks that have been reluctant to take on lease payments for an automatic press....Even though in many cases a press like that will save enough in labour to pay for itself and/or give them a life....
I agree. Number 1 regret since starting screen printing is not starting with a Auto for me.
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panel frames...i bought 5 of them....and two of them refuse to keep the mesh locked in..coated the screens..loaded in the press..came back the next day the meshes were popped out...sent the meshes back thinking they were defective.....loaded the new ones in...same thing...kept popping out....this was two years ago....those two frames been setting unused...i was thinking of sending the frames back and get a refund or replace them but screw it..got tired of dealing with the company and the phone calls....and yes i loaded the meshes with the tool built for it....the other 3 never gave me a problem but i hold back on using them if i can help it...I feel any moment they will pop out.
id be willing to sell them cheap if anyone wants to take a chance on them...id like them all gone.
manual our auto size frames? there's a trick to them....
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Some folks should have regrets for not buying equipment sooner versus later.....Over the years I have talked many folks that have been reluctant to take on lease payments for an automatic press....Even though in many cases a press like that will save enough in labour to pay for itself and/or give them a life....
I'll definitely agree with you here. I understand why I did what I did, but if I could go back to day 1 of moving out of the house, knowing what I know now, I would have leased an 8/10 ac/servo auto.
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Taking over a year to wire and plumb my 7.5 hp dual stage compressor!
Ended up being of course SUPER easy and would have been even easier if I wasn't too cheap to just buy the right drill bits (guess that's another regret there).
Not completely done by any means, but it's wired, and plumbed into the building (Thanks Brian aka BinkSpot). Just need a few more attachments and some filters blah blah blah.
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panel frames...i bought 5 of them....and two of them refuse to keep the mesh locked in..coated the screens..loaded in the press..came back the next day the meshes were popped out...sent the meshes back thinking they were defective.....loaded the new ones in...same thing...kept popping out....this was two years ago....those two frames been setting unused...i was thinking of sending the frames back and get a refund or replace them but screw it..got tired of dealing with the company and the phone calls....and yes i loaded the meshes with the tool built for it....the other 3 never gave me a problem but i hold back on using them if i can help it...I feel any moment they will pop out.
id be willing to sell them cheap if anyone wants to take a chance on them...id like them all gone.
manual our auto size frames? there's a trick to them....
23 x 31's
what is the trick?..the three that have given me zero problems, i did not load the meshes any differently than on the two that keep popping off the frame.
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@ Mark - if I tell you the trick, I won't be able to take them off your hands for 5 bucks each hahaha..... ;D
pm me a price, I'll take them off your hands..
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Leasing our first auto with a $1 buyout. Man we paid way more for that press than we should have. We upgraded before the lease ended and had to pay off the lease in order to sell it. Our two upgrades were cash and it felt sooooooooo much better. I guess you have to start somewhere and that first auto helped get us to where we are now so I guess it wasn't all bad.
You mean vs not borrowing at all?
Because when I'm done I'll be about 25% over purchase price. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.
At that point I am not sure we could have borrowed but that would have been a better option. Knowing what I know now a quality used press would have been the best choice for the amount of work we had. In the grand scheme of things it worked out.
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No real regrets. I think my problem is taking shortcuts due to fear of the money being spent and not focusing more on the potential money to be made and how the right equipment makes your life easier.
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No real regrets. I think my problem is taking shortcuts due to fear of the money being spent and not focusing more on the potential money to be made and how the right equipment makes your life easier.
No go back to our last PM's.
What do you think you should do? ;)
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No real regrets. I think my problem is taking shortcuts due to fear of the money being spent and not focusing more on the potential money to be made and how the right equipment makes your life easier.
No go back to our last PM's.
What do you think you should do? ;)
Honestly what I would like to do and what I will end up doing I don't know. Most likely if history is a good outlook on the future I will probably not spend money.
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And be right back in this thread again. :p
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You are probably right. Problem is there are many options I could go. May start another thread.