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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: alan802 on September 08, 2014, 04:27:29 PM
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Let me explain, all this recent talk about saving a minute here, an hour there, CTS, film, etc., I just have to throw myself under the bus here so that maybe it will help someone else not make the same decisions. I don't mind doing that from time to time, I've always felt better when I air out some of my mistakes for all to see.
Since December, our old (but great) CCI pressure washer crapped out on us and I've been procrastinating on getting it fixed. We've been through 3 of the electric pressure washers from Lowes and one from Harbor Freight just to get us through till I got the good one fixed. Well last week I had had enough, it was like the 5th week in a row that I had to stop something to go fix the pressure washer or get it replaced and I broke down and bought a new one from Grainger. Sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you get it back. Holy crap, how much time have we lost that we'll never get back by reclaiming screens with those junk pressure washers? It was taking us an hour to do 12-15 screens and I just walked in from reclaiming a few screens and took 5 out of the dip tank that had been soaking and they were spotless in about 5 minutes. So by not playing around with those lesser powered pressure washers I've gained at least 2 hours a week from at least doubling our reclaim production.
I know there are a lot of you (us if you want to get technical) that are using and loving your Lowes or Home Depot specials but I sure hope I never lose sight of the fact that I was lazy and I should have gotten the good one fixed or just bought the A.R. right away.
Now I've got 3 of the Lowes ones that I have to wait until December before they'll let me return them and get a replacement. I don't know how some of you have been able to buy them, use it for 3 months then when it breaks you take it back and get a replacement. They won't do that here until the 1-year manufacturer's warranty runs out. Even when you get ugly and start causing a scene they won't budge, they just ask if you'd like to be escorted out of the store in handcuffs (true story...twice, I thought a month later and with a different crew working I might have a chance to pull it off).
Oh, and this bad boy is adjustable so when we're developing screens I drop it down to about 1400-1500 psi then for reclaiming bump it up to 2100. This thing makes quick work of those thick stencils that before we were spending 7 minutes straight spraying and trying to work all the emulsion out.
I would post a pic but for some reason it won't let me right click and post the URL, that's never happened before. I'll try again after I post this.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/IMG_20140904_131349_zpssmiu0lpk.jpg) (http://s485.photobucket.com/user/alan802/media/SRI%20Pics/IMG_20140904_131349_zpssmiu0lpk.jpg.html)
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I've had my $79 lowes piece of crap for almost 4 years, and it has only been turned off when I moved out of the garage into my current location. Still works like the day I bought it. :D
Even my 2/2 round with no pressure coatings on 86 mesh with HVP blast out with a single pass after sitting in my supra tank for a few minutes. Is the genzyme not loosening the emulsion that much?
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I've been using AR, but not that one.
First thing I noticed when I fired up my AR cheapie was a very different sound.
Seems like even the low cost models are made completely differently.
My screen volume is going way down, so I can't justify the same stuff as you.
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This is an upgrade I really need to make at some point. Our volume isn't that high, but A) I always wonder when mine will crap the bed and I have to make another Lowes trip and B) I am sure that a better pressure washer like this would make a world of difference for me.
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We bought a electric one from Northern Tool earlier this year when we went through 2-3 cheap ones in a row. Was $700 bucks but boy is it nice.
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We usually buy top end cheapies if that makes sense. but I sure get tired of the noise. Are any of the better ones relatively quiet?
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I've had my $79 lowes piece of crap for almost 4 years, and it has only been turned off when I moved out of the garage into my current location. Still works like the day I bought it. :D
Even my 2/2 round with no pressure coatings on 86 mesh with HVP blast out with a single pass after sitting in my supra tank for a few minutes. Is the genzyme not loosening the emulsion that much?
I thought most of our issues were chemical related but with the new pressure washer our emulsion just blows right out like the old days. It's night and day in reclaim speed. We have the Easiway 500 in the tank now and it's been a few years since I used the Supra. I thought the gemzyme worked better than the Supra and about the same as the 500 but I need to test out emulsion removers again, it's about that time. It's been a few years since we had the Supra so maybe it's a lot better now but it seemed to lose it's power quickly. I was thinking about dumping the tank last week since we were having issues but after today I think I would be wasting time and chems.
This one was around $1100 and they had a few different options in the A.R. in this range. I was leaning towards a $700 unit, can't remember the brand right now and I'll never know if we missed out by buying the more expensive unit but I have no regrets really, this thing is a beast.
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We bought this: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200350514_200350514?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-RECEIVED-_-707-_-CONF (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200350514_200350514?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-RECEIVED-_-707-_-CONF)
and never looked back. Worth every penny.
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We usually buy top end cheapies if that makes sense. but I sure get tired of the noise. Are any of the better ones relatively quiet?
Well, as I said, my AR is quieter than any of the Italian ones from the big box stores, but I wouldn't call it quiet.
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There is only a few MFR's of pressure washer pumps. AR makes their own. The cheapy pumps are mostly plastic
but we always had the pressure sensing switch go out before anything else.
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I agree Alan, I never realized what we were missing until we actually put a nice washer into production. Up until this year I would do the harbor freight/home depot style pressure washers and usually go through 4-5 a year(on the exchange) until I finally had enough of the down time so I had one custom built for us here. What a crazy difference it was the very first day we put it into production. Not that we saw a huge savings in time(it's faster for sure but I didn't track how much) but overall quality was much better. I also have noticed we are not breaking near as many screens in the washout booth with the washer. All in all I'm a super big supporter of really good pressure washers now that I've used both good and cheap. Ours was custom built with a foot pedal, 2 sprayers, and a few other things I've forgotten by now but I want to say the price wasn't too bad around $800 or so but never again on the cheap ones for us LOL
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We bought the same once we moved out of the shed.... I don't remember it being that expensive though, but I'm sure it's the same.
Just don't leave it running without the trigger pulled, the bypass will still over heat.
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We've never had a crap one. The first one I ever used was an old Advance Process Supply that lasted for years, like 15. When it got sick, we replace the pump and motor from Grainger. When we started this place, we had a no name industrial model that was great, rebuilt it once about 10 years ago, still going strong. Cheap ones are, well, cheap...
steve
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alan Ive bought 3 of those over the years good but hated that they had to be switched on and left on sometimes for guys having to get to there smoke break.
I switched to one of these Karcher units about 6 years ago and just bought my first replacement, we use daily for probably 20-40 screens at least. There $700 canadian so I bet you could get for less, they are Karchers smallest industrial units.
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I (somehow) convinced my boss to buy one of those AR units awhile back. It ROCKS.
We bought the one with "TSS".. basically it has a pressure switch so it shuts down when you let go of the gun. $600 from here:
http://www.pwmall.com/p-140316-ar630_tss-ar-blue-clean-15001900-psi-electric-pressure-washer-21gpm-115v-tss.aspx (http://www.pwmall.com/p-140316-ar630_tss-ar-blue-clean-15001900-psi-electric-pressure-washer-21gpm-115v-tss.aspx)
It's a fantastic unit and with the adjustable pressure it's great for developing too.
Change the oil after the first 50 hours and regularly after that. (a 5 minute ordeal) The pump should last a good long while before you need to rebuild it.
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Nice, who wants to buy ours so I can get the TSS model. ;)
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Ok, now I'm pissed all over again if I could have gotten a better/or comparable unit for that price. I sure hope there is a huge difference in the one we bought from Grainger versus the $600 one but it sure as hell doesn't look like there is any difference. Ours is "supposed" to be for hot water climates since our water supply here is in the 80's in temp out of the pipe but from the little bit of research I've done on this this morning does not ease my mind. I guess I should not think that the high volume and popularity of Grainger would insure prices are competitive. But $1100 versus $600 is not competitive at all. Truth be told I didn't personally buy it and my bro in law took over the reigns and when he told me he bought one I was wondering which one he bought when he has no clue as to what we need over here. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out which one he bought but now I'm not happy about it at all. I probably wouldn't have shopped around on the unit either and would have probably just bought the one from Grainger too so I guess I shouldn't be mad at him. I won't be as trusting with any major purchase from here on out, that's for sure.
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I was trying to be nice and not come out and say it but yeah, we bought the same unit (maybe not the hot water version) for $699.
Here is the hot water ones and the TSS hot water one for like $50 bucks more at the same place.
http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/power/electric-warm-water-pressure-washers.html (http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/power/electric-warm-water-pressure-washers.html)
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Grainger is ALWAYS overpriced. The thing with them is if you need it now, they usually have something you can get right then and there if you're in a bind. Which is nice. If you have time to wait you can always get it cheaper somewhere else.
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Grainger is ALWAYS overpriced. The thing with them is if you need it now, they usually have something you can get right then and there if you're in a bind. Which is nice. If you have time to wait you can always get it cheaper somewhere else.
I can live with 10-15% higher pricing for the convenience, but 40%...nope, that's over the line and they need to give me an explanation and I'll explain to them that I won't be buying anything from them ever again. It boils down to use being trusting of a company that we shouldn't have, which is technically ALL ON ME, but I'm still pissed and have a right to an explanation from them as to why they are so much more expensive.
I just sent a nice little email to grainger customer service, I hope they respond. I'll be calling them shortly.
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Grainger is ALWAYS overpriced. The thing with them is if you need it now, they usually have something you can get right then and there if you're in a bind. Which is nice. If you have time to wait you can always get it cheaper somewhere else.
I can live with 10-15% higher pricing for the convenience, but 40%...nope, that's over the line and they need to give me an explanation and I'll explain to them that I won't be buying anything from them ever again. It boils down to use being trusting of a company that we shouldn't have, which is technically ALL ON ME, but I'm still pissed and have a right to an explanation from them as to why they are so much more expensive.
I just sent a nice little email to grainger customer service, I hope they respond. I'll be calling them shortly.
I think with Grainger, it may come down to what level pricing they put you on.
Thirty or more years ago, they pretty much catered exclusively to an industrial market. Now they have gone after the DIY retail Joes.
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Even up here if you don't have a big, busy account at Grainger you get the F-U pricing column. They've seen the last of me after charging me triple what I could get the same thing for at a local hardware store.
For the life of me I can't understand why a company would do that unless they didn't want to be bothered with your business. It's not like there is a lot of "set-up" to pull an item off the shelf and ring it through.
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With Grainger, I think it still hinges on their history that I pointed out. They still have the reputation of being an industrial supplier, so the average guys think it's pretty cool that they can shop there as well. To the uneducated, it may even seem like wholesale, sort of like blanks.com in our industry.
Bottom line, if you have the time, shop around a bit. They may still be the only ones to have it on a local shelf, and you may just have to decide how much that convenience is worth.
Besides, with phone books going the way of the Dodo, their thick catalogs are still great for trapping pellets when I shoot.
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i stopped using our grainger...their inventory dipped and I could never get parts when I needed them. I use mcmaster, they are across town, i have it the next day..WAY cheaper.
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I was trying to be nice and not come out and say it but yeah, we bought the same unit (maybe not the hot water version) for $699.
Here is the hot water ones and the TSS hot water one for like $50 bucks more at the same place.
[url]http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/power/electric-warm-water-pressure-washers.html[/url] ([url]http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/power/electric-warm-water-pressure-washers.html[/url])
My boss bought a unit from them. Well not the boss, the guy who orders stuff picked it out before I could stop him. The Cam Spray cold water one. It showed up broken from UPS, but we didn't know it till we hooked it up. Water out of everywhere - it was all busted up inside and the pump was cracked.
Pressure Washers Direct washed their hands of it completely. From day one, because we had signed for it. They made us take it up with Camspray and it took FOREVER to get a refund. I would avoid that web site like the plague. Horrible CS.
The PW Mall site has the best prices I've found on these.
Alan, yours is the hot version but I don't see why you would need it unless you are feeding it water from a water heater.
And Grainger... only in an emergency. If they have some obscure fastener I need maybe, but otherwise I hate that place.
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I can see that. We had a wand issue and they passed us onto manufacturer.
I guess at these prices they don't have room to do much... But they shouldn't leave you holding the bag like that!
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hot water washers are for really hot water, 140 plus I think.