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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ZooCity on September 16, 2014, 06:57:10 PM
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Specifically a Sportsman EX. I'm going to call M&R about this in the morn of course but wondered if anyone here had done it. I'm guessing that it's a big no.
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Your only going to save a few amps plus pull an extra wire by going 3 phase over single.
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Piss poor answer here, but technically yes- I think. :D Something about doubling up one leg. If Brian doesn't jump in with the actual answer, I'll get a hold of the guy who I was talking to about something similar. May not till tomorrow though.
May be a pain with multiple motors though if it is all AC.
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Ha! Brian jumped in before I could even post!
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Your only going to save a few amps plus pull an extra wire by going 3 phase over single.
I had an electrician mention this to me the other day, and was surprised when I heard it as I was under the impression that there was more of a benefit to going 3-phase. How about for the quartz flash units?
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Is there a particular reason you want to convert it to 3 phase?
If you only have 3 phase power you should still be able to run single phase equipment.
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Higher amp draw there are benifits, mainly in rotating equipment like motors. Less draw, smaller wire, basicly dividing the amp draw one three wires over two and more powerful.
My press draws 20A single phase some where around 16 three phase. Old shop was single new has three, never bothered to switch over, one less wire to pull, service drop cheaper and smaller conduit was needed.
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Higher amp draw there are benifits, mainly in rotating equipment like motors. Less draw, smaller wire, basicly dividing the amp draw one three wires over two and more powerful.
My press draws 20A single phase some where around 16 three phase. Old shop was single new has three, never bothered to switch over, one less wire to pull, service drop cheaper and smaller conduit was needed.
Ahhh ask and you shall find out.
A little off topic, but as I'm getting my electric down now, my 3 phase panel main breaker is 100 amp. I'm adding up the amps of all the breakers we are putting in (30, 30, 30, 50, 50). Am I going to have to be looking at having to do a service upgrade? Or does 3 phase follow a different magical rule?
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That's something I will not discuss on an open fourm. I will say this much look at what stuff is really drawing and what may or may not be drawing most of the amps at the same time.
Hint a compressor with a name plate that says 30a may only need that much to start, once it's going maybe 15A. A quarts flash will not draw nearly the amps once it's hot as opposed to the first flash of the day.
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Higher amp draw there are benifits, mainly in rotating equipment like motors. Less draw, smaller wire, basicly dividing the amp draw one three wires over two and more powerful.
My press draws 20A single phase some where around 16 three phase. Old shop was single new has three, never bothered to switch over, one less wire to pull, service drop cheaper and smaller conduit was needed.
Interesting, thanks for the info. It may save me some scrilla on my installation. 8)
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This is 22a v 38a. Good extra info here!
3ph motors are actually more efficient in addition to what's been said.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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That's something I will not discuss on an open fourm. I will say this much look at what stuff is really drawing and what may or may not be drawing most of the amps at the same time.
Hint a compressor with a name plate that says 30a may only need that much to start, once it's going maybe 15A. A quarts flash will not draw nearly the amps once it's hot as opposed to the first flash of the day.
Gothca.
That was the other thing I was thinking about, peak draw vs typical draw.
I respect not wanting to discuss it on an open forum.
*Thread hijack over* 8)
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*Thread hijack over* 8)
Almost...
http://t.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html (http://t.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html)
This can tell you the true draw of what is running or even the whole shop at any given time. Super cheap compared to "name brand" versions, but gets the job done for us. I also have a Field Piece and I grab whichever is available. This can show you the true running draw of your compressor and such... Then just do the math.
*NOW thread jack is over ;)
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That's a serious draw Chris... Our Sabre is rated at 13 amps for single phase, I wish I had known that 3 phase was an option though... Guess I'd rather not pull a neutral as well and my 50 amp 3 phase breaker for my dryer was right under a hundred bucks!
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*Thread hijack over* 8)
Almost...
[url]http://t.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html[/url] ([url]http://t.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html[/url])
This can tell you the true draw of what is running or even the whole shop at any given time. Super cheap compared to "name brand" versions, but gets the job done for us. I also have a Field Piece and I grab whichever is available. This can show you the true running draw of your compressor and such... Then just do the math.
*NOW thread jack is over ;)
Thanks Gill!
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my 3 phase panel main breaker is 100 amp.
Are you saying you have 100 Amps for your whole shop?
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my 3 phase panel main breaker is 100 amp.
Are you saying you have 100 Amps for your whole shop?
I have two separate panels, one is single phase 120, the other panel is three phase with a main breaker of 100.
I'm not sure what is feeding it and if the main breaker can be swapped out or if I need to have new wiring ran to increase the amperage to my shop. I'm in an old mill building, so there is definitely plenty of power to the building. It's just a question of getting it to my shop. I know that this will be a question for the electrician when he comes back to finish, but when I noticed this today it was enough to raise a red flag for me.
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Can you see what gauge wire feeds the main breaker?
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I peaked today and I think their was three wires each labeled 600V on them going into the three phase panel. Don't quote me on that though, I may be remembering that wrong. It was a long day today.
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If its printed on the wire from factory that is the max limit of the wire. Code may require that size or bigger if you increase to a 200 amp service. Usually the 3 phase feeds the single phase panel box for the single phase item like plugs, etc. Just remember that that is amps not volts which is more important in my mind than volts per say. Usually 100/200 amp 208 or 220 volt pretty std, maybe 480 volt. Sometimes 400 amp is required. In Colorado and you go over the set 3 phase then you hit demand and ouch!!!! Aprox $3.22 per kilowatt. compared to $.036 per kilow plus fees. Big difference.
Shane
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Shane, the way your building is with the knob and tube other then the cost of goods it shouldn't be to expensive to upgrade to a larger service if needed.
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When we moved into our present space a number of years ago, we had to bring in 300 amp service so we could run our 3 dryers; I don't recall it being expensive, and you need what you need, so one has to do it. Fortunately, in the large mill building we're in there was one in the building that could be relocated by the power company.
Steve
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Thanks guys. I'll see what the electrician tells me when he comes back. I know we can make it work, I just hope it is cheap.
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So yes, you can do this. Just need to swap a contactor and 4 breakers, about $250 direct from M&R parts store. Thank you once again M&R.
Doing this on the press I'm talking about saves us 16a of fairly continuous draw on our panel and might mean we don't need to pull another 100a in from the neighboring space for the moment, so that's a few thou saved right there.
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Why would I think that you'd have to change all of the motors to three phase? Good thing I'm not an electrician and only
a lowly shirt printer...
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Why would I think that you'd have to change all of the motors to three phase? Good thing I'm not an electrician and only
a lowly shirt printer...
That's exactly what I thought and I figured it would be way too costly. My guess is they spec one type of motor on all models for more efficient production and qty buying of the components. The main panel on the press is going to control what goes out to each AC motor, servo, etc. and I reckon that is built similarly so that producing the press in 1ph or 3ph is a simple matter of using a few different breakers and contacts and setting it accordingly.
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Inverters on the print heads most likely 220 single phase, they change the power to three phase that gets sent to the drive motors.
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Inverters on the print heads most likely 220 single phase, they change the power to three phase that gets sent to the drive motors.
So you would still see the benefits of running the motor on 3ph, not just to the press' panel?
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...so what would be involved if it were the other way around? I see many good deals on presses in the used market, but we only have single-phase power in this area.
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The print head motors are three phase for control (easier to dial in speed with more poles), direction (single phase a PIA to change rotation) and power (from a dead stop to moving cold white ink, single phase you would need large capiciators to get it moving, again more poles). If you order the machine single phase the motors are still 3. Same with the servo amp. Some machines I have worked on all of them come single phase, to make them 3 just pull the jumper. L1 & L2 power the heads and servo, a jumper between L2 & L3 powers L3, L3 is used for the power supplies for the low voltage controls like boards and simple computers. I do not know if the M&R machines are like this without seeing a schematic or the machine itself.
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...so what would be involved if it were the other way around? I see many good deals on presses in the used market, but we only have single-phase power in this area.
In the case of this particular M&R press I believe it would be the same, just swap breakers/capacitors on the panel, possibly change a setting in the panel.
My guess is that it would work on any machine that is built and sold in both 1ph and 3ph. This presumes the press would be made with identical components save for a handful of electrical parts at the panel. But like I said, if you are large company manufacturing a machine, you probably don't want to stock a complete alternate set of motors for the 3ph models v. the 1ph. It might save a bigger operation a lot of cash trapped in inventory to have universal motors/parts so my guess is that most companies have this practice. Just a guess though, always ask!