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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Shanarchy on September 17, 2014, 12:30:48 PM
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I am going to have to invest in a new stretching table. My roller master will only do 18x20 and 23x26.
How do the Shur-Loc tables compare? They are obviously not as engineered, but do they do the same trick just as good?
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They do just fine. A little more manual labor but not much.
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They are not pneumatic right?
I guess that would be the major difference, you don't just flip a switch and turn knobs.
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Really like having a rollermaster here. They pop up used for around 1-2k pretty frequently.
We're in the process of buying a bunch of gear from a shop in TX and didn't need the ShurLoc table they have, email me and I can put you in touch with the owner.
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Make sure to check out the super-cost-effective Accelerator X if you are running 23x31 or under. It's $399.99 for the hardware (includes everything you need to stretch an all roller frame or square bar frame - or you can do both for $499.99) and $400 for the table if you need one.
We also have someone in Maryland looking to move an almost new Accelerator 2 kit (going out of biz) for $1200 that will accommodate larger frame sizes - up to 33x37 (though the table is only drilled out to 25x36 if I'm not mistaken.)
The $800 Accelerator X kit with turntable is a pretty amazing deal though. Remember a Roller Master is limited in sizes unless you get an L4, which will set you back a pretty penny, where as the Accelerator can stretch to just about anything you can throw at it. Plus, you are guaranteed that the tubes turn evenly, unlike pneumatics that pull to the side of less resistance first. Of course, I do tend to be a bit biased... :)
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We have the Accelerator 2 kit, and will not do with out it. Quick, easy and simple.
Chris
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Make sure to check out the super-cost-effective Accelerator X if you are running 23x31 or under. It's $399.99 for the hardware (includes everything you need to stretch an all roller frame or square bar frame - or you can do both for $499.99) and $400 for the table if you need one.
We also have someone in Maryland looking to move an almost new Accelerator 2 kit (going out of biz) for $1200 that will accommodate larger frame sizes - up to 33x37 (though the table is only drilled out to 25x36 if I'm not mistaken.)
The $800 Accelerator X kit with turntable is a pretty amazing deal though. Remember a Roller Master is limited in sizes unless you get an L4, which will set you back a pretty penny, where as the Accelerator can stretch to just about anything you can throw at it. Plus, you are guaranteed that the tubes turn evenly, unlike pneumatics that pull to the side of less resistance first. Of course, I do tend to be a bit biased... :)
Thanks for the info!
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We have a roller master and like it. You can have them make you one to the size frames you use.
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I am going to have to invest in a new stretching table. My roller master will only do 18x20 and 23x26.
How do the Shur-Loc tables compare? They are obviously not as engineered, but do they do the same trick just as good?
The roller master is designed to tension the mesh from 4 sides simultaneously. This allows the mesh to naturally stabilize and get to maximum tension quickly.
the shur loc table only does one roller at a time manually so you need to relax the mesh and tension in stages.
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Actually, the roller master will tweak the mesh to the side of least resistance. If you have a sticky tube, the mesh will pull the other direction faster and create crooked thread lines. Only the Accelerator has a physical stop option that locks the roller into the exact same position on the parallel tubes. So, while the roller master will pull the mesh in 4 directions at once, you can't tell for sure which direction it will be pulled, or how far. This is why most people prefer the manual control (which is why roller frames are so popular - the ability to manually control the tension) that the Accelerator offers.
That said, different meshes require different stretching. We will always recommend manual stretching for optimal control vs. powered options that limit the control you have.
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Actually, the roller master will tweak the mesh to the side of least resistance. If you have a sticky tube, the mesh will pull the other direction faster and create crooked thread lines. Only the Accelerator has a physical stop option that locks the roller into the exact same position on the parallel tubes. So, while the roller master will pull the mesh in 4 directions at once, you can't tell for sure which direction it will be pulled, or how far. This is why most people prefer the manual control (which is why roller frames are so popular - the ability to manually control the tension) that the Accelerator offers.
That said, different meshes require different stretching. We will always recommend manual stretching for optimal control vs. powered options that limit the control you have.
Really, LOL
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For anyone familiar with how much force you use with a newman wrench on high tension screens, that sticky roller argument sounds pretty funny.
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Still technically holds water.
If you run 31 psi (totally made up number) and you put that on both your cylinders and you have a "sticky roller" then it might need 32 psi to pull the same tension on both of sides. Maybe only 31.5 psi and of course at some point it is negligible... but it still could TECHNICALLY be a factor.
In the end, MANY people are meshing these guys up manually and those crooked thread lines are still better than static mesh.
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I am going to have to invest in a new stretching table. My roller master will only do 18x20 and 23x26.
How do the Shur-Loc tables compare? They are obviously not as engineered, but do they do the same trick just as good?
After having a newman table for a few years now, I would say that sometimes I almost wish I went with the shur-loc table. If you have frames that start to get a little rough, or hard to turn the rollers, the newman table will favor the "looser" roller over the tighter one and give you a head ache. I think, and I haven't tried one, but from what I have heard, you are guaranteed no racking of the frame, and a completely flat roller frame with the Shurloc table. The newman table only has these little allen screws that touch the corners in 3 spots of your frame leaving a little room for slipping and what not as you may see with your current table. Maybe the smaller screens have less issue, but I can fight it all I want, but tighten those bolts and sometimes it wants to shift since those little allen heads sticking up don't really hold anything in place. I've had a couple guys here before looking over our table, and how we use it, they say we are doing everything the way we are supposed to, but sometimes whether it's a bugger of a frame, or just the way the little screw heads stick up and don't actually, "hold" anything in solid place, the frames like to shift occasionally. From what I've heard of the shurloc table, once that frame is in place, and all the wrenches are on, it's not moving at all. Maybe the Shurloc guy can weigh in on the solidity of their design.
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Find and buy a Rheema ;D. You ain't getting mine though.
(not taking anything away from either Newman or Shur-Loc, just funnin')
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I am going to have to invest in a new stretching table. My roller master will only do 18x20 and 23x26.
How do the Shur-Loc tables compare? They are obviously not as engineered, but do they do the same trick just as good?
From what I've heard of the shurloc table, once that frame is in place, and all the wrenches are on, it's not moving at all. Maybe the Shurloc guy can weigh in on the solidity of their design.
It doesn't. No movement. Built solid. Not taking anything away from any other ways to roll some mesh but what I love for my shop is once a screen is reclaimed after every run it is checked for tension. From time to time we have to bring something back up and when we do it just takes a second. Very easy was to keep your rollers up to par. Works for me, maybe not everyone.
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You're right ScreenFoo, if you take roller mesh to 50+N, you are going to straighten out the tubes pretty quick. But if you are running a 150/48S at 22N, there's quite a bit more play in there.
I will just say this, I've been making and selling these products for 12 years and have seen how many of these screens get a bit of distortion due to not being able to control the tubes perfectly. That said, there are 100's of people that can ace their Roller Master and 1000's that can ace frames without any stretching equipment at all. Here's the bottom line though...
The L2 Roller Master will stretch a 23x31 for $4300...
The Accelerator X will do the same but requires no power, air or expertise to setup and use - all for $799... Oh and the Accelerator X can ship today and if you are handy, you can build you own table and cut the price in half. The other nice thing is that if you are running a shop with just manual frames right now, the X can be had in the square bar variety, for $399 and you can add the extra hardware for the auto frames later for $100 if you decide to upgrade your frames and press. This make he total cost of being able to stretch an 18x20 sq to 23x33 m3 under $900!
Of course all of this is just crazy talk since everyone should just by EZ Frames instead - ;D
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Find and buy a Rheema ;D. You ain't getting mine though.
(not taking anything away from either Newman or Shur-Loc, just funnin')
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Of course all of this is just crazy talk since everyone should just by EZ Frames instead - ;D
I have been for the last year... i want my roller frames back.
printing on 25n and less screen tension makes me want to cry, i want my 40n white base screens back.
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Of course all of this is just crazy talk since everyone should just by EZ Frames instead - ;D
I have been for the last year... i want my roller frames back.
printing on 25n and less screen tension makes me want to cry, i want my 40n white base screens back.
Why did you make the change if you liked your rollers?
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Find and buy a Rheema ;D. You ain't getting mine though.
I know that when I saw the first Diamond Chase and Newman rollers, the prices, especially on the oem wrenches, made some feel that they were getting rheemed, LOL!
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With those 28x38's you should be well over 25N... Is that on the 110's or the 160's? We've done both the 110/71 and 110/80 for you guys and the 160/54 and 160/64 also. There's quite a jump in testing for those...
110/71 - no info
110/80 - 45N
160/54 - 36N (max
160/64 - 37N
Either way, that's way too low for what those shapes were designed out at, so let me know what mesh you are looking at and what tensions they are when you stretch them and we can get it all fixed up for you.
If we need to get those bumped up for you, let us know. I know that the mesh that is used for those isn't from us, but you shouldn't be that low on lower counts.
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With those 28x38's you should be well over 25N...
Let me drop a meter on some and I'll let you know.
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Why did you make the change if you liked your rollers?
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My company uses a custom sized 28x38 frame, they went that route many years ago, not to say I can't convert them back ;D
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With those 28x38's you should be well over 25N... Is that on the 110's or the 160's? We've done both the 110/71 and 110/80 for you guys and the 160/54 and 160/64 also. There's quite a jump in testing for those...
110/71 - no info
110/80 - 45N
160/54 - 36N (max
160/64 - 37N
Either way, that's way too low for what those shapes were designed out at, so let me know what mesh you are looking at and what tensions they are when you stretch them and we can get it all fixed up for you.
If we need to get those bumped up for you, let us know. I know that the mesh that is used for those isn't from us, but you shouldn't be that low on lower counts.
and you can send them the shorter bars too!
pierre
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heres our tension as they sit now, measured a bunch to get a average.
I'm not going to use new as that's not what we print at everyday.
110/80 - 28n
160/65 - 24n
225/48 - 20n
300/34 - 18n
These screens have an average of 8 months of use on them and are used daily. whats in the reclaim pile today, will be on screen tmrw.
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What on earth is a Rheema? Looks like it has the magical fourth clamp?
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I believe only the old farts (myself included) around here would recognize the name "Rhema" which refers to the now defunct Rhema Dura Screen supply company.
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Someone on here said the Rema actually didn't work as well as a3 clamping system
The roller stalling can be an issue on the roller master however you can solve it by just manually giving them a little help and squaring them up. I think the Shurlock table would be excellent for those crappy older ones with the plastic hexagonal end pieces
John that tension seems a little low on your 330 is that working out okay for you? We aim for everything above 20.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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heres our tension as they sit now, measured a bunch to get a average.
I'm not going to use new as that's not what we print at everyday.
110/80 - 28n
160/65 - 24n
225/48 - 20n
300/34 - 18n
These screens have an average of 8 months of use on them and are used daily. whats in the reclaim pile today, will be on screen tmrw.
I've got David taking a look at shapes on these, but after 8 months of use, it would be hard to know how many impressions you had run them through and how much that stretched the mesh out verses the actual break point of the mesh.
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Shurloc:
What's the difference between the Accelarator X and 2 tables?
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Weight of the hardware - the Accelerator X will safely do a 23x33 M3... the Accelerator 2 will do up to a 33x37. If you try to do a bigger frame on the X, the torque generated could lead to metal fatigue over time.
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heres our tension as they sit now, measured a bunch to get a average.
I'm not going to use new as that's not what we print at everyday.
110/80 - 28n
160/65 - 24n
225/48 - 20n
300/34 - 18n
These screens have an average of 8 months of use on them and are used daily. whats in the reclaim pile today, will be on screen tmrw.
I've got David taking a look at shapes on these, but after 8 months of use, it would be hard to know how many impressions you had run them through and how much that stretched the mesh out verses the actual break point of the mesh.
as mentioned already, get some shorter bars. That will bring your tension back up. You should be able to do it with 2 per screen and next time you order frames, just get them with shorter bars and switch as you go.
pierre
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Hey Pierre,
I think you are talking about our second tension bars - and those are an option, but a pretty pricey one. I'm pretty sure that David said that the 160's and 300's could increase a touch, but honestly, after 8 months, I'm just not sure how much stretch is left in the mesh. The retensioning bars would probably just pull the mesh a bit tighter and cause it to pop at this point.
That said, I'd be happy to send a set down to John if he wants to try them out. They should easily bring the mesh up 2-4N. Just let me know if you want to try a set and I will get them headed your way!
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made up some screens today to see what my fresh mesh numbers were
110 - 34
160 - 33
230 - 32
300 - 23