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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: T Shirt Farmer on September 17, 2014, 02:08:07 PM
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I got my Vastex E2000-4731 exposure unit in last week, first few days using it are very impressive. The unit is built extremely well with great fit and finish. I have not made enough exposure test but seems be around 110 seconds for Kiwo Poly One with diazo on a 150 mesh. Vacuum is fairly quite and pulls blanket down in about 20 seconds and has a timer for this function and fires lights after preset vacuum time has elapsed. Logic for buying this unit was... Pull down dwell timer which the single screen M&R unit did not have.. did not like the frame latch on M&R... paid several thousand less for the Vastex 2 frame unit as compared to M&R two frame model, so even if the other unit is a bit faster processing 2 frames at once far out performs brighter lights. Unit came very well crated and shipped about 5 days after I placed the order. Still on the fence about DTS but very happy I made this upgrade.
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Did you post that time correct, almost 2 minutes to burn a screen?
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Did you post that time correct, almost 2 minutes to burn a screen?
my bad 1 minute 10 seconds.. have not run exposure calc yet to hone in burn times.. will up date next week
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id like to hear what your cac. tells you...I've got a point 1000 workhorse and I'm at 63sec. (160s mesh, ulano orange)
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Aquasol HV on that unit should be in 10-15s range. Diazo slows things down considerably.
pierre
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I was getting proper exposures at 25 seconds with a 150/48 with 25% EOMR with the Vastex LED and a 305 with 10% EOMR was about 10 seconds and slightly over exposed. Those numbers are really close to our MH unit with a fresh bulb but almost twice as fast now with a dull bulb. LED will render MH units obsolete really quickly.
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Agreed Alan the LED units are great, but what in the world are you going to do with a good working unit you already have, anyone in the field knows about the LED and won't pay what an old unit is worth if your trying to unload one. Maybe these companies pushing the LED's will do a trade in or something unless you just have extra cash and keep the old one as back up, but do you need a backup to and LED hmmm. I know if I had bought one of M&Rs 3140 a few years back I'm still loving that unit and would love to have the new LED unit but would be very hard press to part with the 3140, unless production was at a rate I could justify the purchase. IMHO I think that might be the only reason the market is not flooded with the new LED units, it's like trading in your 2013 corvette for a 2014 because its 10 to 15 mph faster....I'm still looking forward to seeing the starlight in action very soon. sorry about tossing another brand in this post
darryl
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Agreed Alan the LED units are great, but what in the world are you going to do with a good working unit you already have, anyone in the field knows about the LED and won't pay what an old unit is worth if your trying to unload one. Maybe these companies pushing the LED's will do a trade in or something unless you just have extra cash and keep the old one as back up, but do you need a backup to and LED hmmm. I know if I had bought one of M&Rs 3140 a few years back I'm still loving that unit and would love to have the new LED unit but would be very hard press to part with the 3140, unless production was at a rate I could justify the purchase. IMHO I think that might be the only reason the market is not flooded with the new LED units, it's like trading in your 2013 corvette for a 2014 because its 10 to 15 mph faster....I'm still looking forward to seeing the starlight in action very soon. sorry about tossing another brand in this post
darryl
Might still have value right now, but it wont in a few years. LED will take over this deal pretty quick, so MH units value is going to be on the decline. Some would argue if your going to do the swap sooner than later would be better if you intend to sell a MH to help fund it.
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Agreed Alan the LED units are great, but what in the world are you going to do with a good working unit you already have, anyone in the field knows about the LED and won't pay what an old unit is worth if your trying to unload one. Maybe these companies pushing the LED's will do a trade in or something unless you just have extra cash and keep the old one as back up, but do you need a backup to and LED hmmm. I know if I had bought one of M&Rs 3140 a few years back I'm still loving that unit and would love to have the new LED unit but would be very hard press to part with the 3140, unless production was at a rate I could justify the purchase. IMHO I think that might be the only reason the market is not flooded with the new LED units, it's like trading in your 2013 corvette for a 2014 because its 10 to 15 mph faster....I'm still looking forward to seeing the starlight in action very soon. sorry about tossing another brand in this post
darryl
Might still have value right now, but it wont in a few years. LED will take over this deal pretty quick, so MH units value is going to be on the decline. Some would argue if your going to do the swap sooner than later would be better if you intend to sell a MH to help fund it.
I agree with that, and by then the LED price will fall some too
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I have one of the larger Amerigraph exposure units. If I get a LED unit I would keep our unit for a backup, or use both.
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we do not plan on getting rid of our old Nuarc. for one, i dont think its worth much. couple bucks maybe, but i guess it cant hurt to have two units.
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Agreed Alan the LED units are great, but what in the world are you going to do with a good working unit you already have, anyone in the field knows about the LED and won't pay what an old unit is worth if your trying to unload one. Maybe these companies pushing the LED's will do a trade in or something unless you just have extra cash and keep the old one as back up, but do you need a backup to and LED hmmm. I know if I had bought one of M&Rs 3140 a few years back I'm still loving that unit and would love to have the new LED unit but would be very hard press to part with the 3140, unless production was at a rate I could justify the purchase. IMHO I think that might be the only reason the market is not flooded with the new LED units, it's like trading in your 2013 corvette for a 2014 because its 10 to 15 mph faster....I'm still looking forward to seeing the starlight in action very soon. sorry about tossing another brand in this post
darryl
Might still have value right now, but it wont in a few years. LED will take over this deal pretty quick, so MH units value is going to be on the decline. Some would argue if your going to do the swap sooner than later would be better if you intend to sell a MH to help fund it.
I agree with that, and by then the LED price will fall some too
It's kind of like what happened with process cameras, if you had to get a new or used one from a dealer, they'd want $2K plus, but if you had one to sell, you'd be lucky to get $300 for it. I guess it's switch as soon as you can so you could still sell your MH for something to a startup, or simply move it to scrap, like we did with our last camera.
Steve
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Somebody must be selling LED lamps can can be put into a old unit.
Why change the whole unit?
At the moment LEDs seem to be overpriced.
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Somebody must be selling LED lamps can can be put into a old unit.
Why change the whole unit?
At the moment LEDs seem to be overpriced.
I thought that I remember this very same Vastex unit being available as a retro-fit.
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http://www.vastex.com/News-Releases/BB-1161_LED-Retrofit-Kit.php (http://www.vastex.com/News-Releases/BB-1161_LED-Retrofit-Kit.php)
Haven't found a price on it though
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Retrofit huh? May be time to get the old Atlas 5-way out of storage, if the price is right.
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The Vastex specs say 5 light bars for the 2331. Anyone know how many bulbs that translates to? I think only M&R has stated how many bulbs are in their unit.
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Retro fitting LED's in an old unit would be the ticket, but some companies would lose money on selling you a nice new unit, maybe once enough new units are in the market a retro kit might be on the way. To me it looks very easy to set a bank of LED lights in an old unit and plug and play I could be very wrong though.
darryl
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Retrofitting an older shallower fluorescent unit would be much nicer and neater than the much deeper units like the Atlas Combos or the MH and Mercury Vapor units with the lights below. Lotsa' wasted space on those. As for the units with the lights above, a whole new issue of making a mount, but probably do-able.
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Retrofitting an older shallower fluorescent unit would be much nicer and neater than the much deeper units like the Atlas Combos or the MH and Mercury Vapor units with the lights below. Lotsa' wasted space on those. As for the units with the lights above, a whole new issue of making a mount, but probably do-able.
The msp 3140 is almost identical to the starlight with legs... Just gut out the lower shelf and it's a starlight... But they already said they aren't making a retrofit kit. :(
Who wants to buy my msp 3140?
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i just sold mine for $2k...there is still a market. Mine was CTS ready though
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I would think that lots of shops would like to mount one of these shallow units on a tabletop and have the space underneath available for storage .
Okay, this is now edited (and redundant)
And I'll blame the wife. She made me hurry, and haste makes waste.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Anyone know how to modify a post made on Tapatalk? In any rate what I was trying to say, was that many of us, With limited space, would like to utilize the space available underneath. I have an overhead light unit and it sits on top of my screen drying cabinet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Anyone know how to modify a post made on Tapatalk? In any rate what I was trying to say, was that many of us, With limited space, would like to utilize the space available underneath. I have an overhead light unit and it sits on top of my screen drying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Should be able to find a pencil button and edit it. I have to do it anytime I try to insert an emoticon because they jam them up at the top vs inline where I want them.
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Anyone know how to modify a post made on Tapatalk? In any rate what I was trying to say, was that many of us, With limited space, would like to utilize the space available underneath. I have an overhead light unit and it sits on top of my screen drying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Should be able to find a pencil button and edit it. I have to do it anytime I try to insert an emoticon because they jam them up at the top vs inline where I want them.
After it's sent (by accident)? My problem is fat finger syndrome while making keyboard corrections in post I dictated.
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That's what I'm talking about.
Using it now.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/20/9ynu5ade.jpg)
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I purchased a retro-fit kit from Vastex for my old National Florescent Halogen Unit. It is like night and day. Old unit took 2,3 & 4 min to expose a screen. LED takes 8 seconds using film and 24 sec using vellum. Can knock out a lot of screens with the new kit.
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Gilly,
That was posted using tapatalk from your press of course, right? :-)
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Gilly,
That was posted using tapatalk from your press of course, right? :-)
It could have been!
I'm hoping my guy doesn't figure out he can play Pandora from it... not sure if he has and just knows better or hasn't gathered up the balls to ask me... or just doesn't realize it.
Myself, I've don't dug through it all, figured out how they are doing everything. :)
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I purchased a retro-fit kit from Vastex for my old National Florescent Halogen Unit. It is like night and day. Old unit took 2,3 & 4 min to expose a screen. LED takes 8 seconds using film and 24 sec using vellum. Can knock out a lot of screens with the new kit.
How much was the kit?
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I have built a lot of my own equipment. I think it would be much cheaper to find the specs (how many lamps, distance between lamps and distance to glass, lamp type and strength etc) and look for a LED lamp supplier. Not a silk screen manufacturer.
It's interesting how everyone is dropping the point light theory and moving to LEDs. Personally I don't think it matters what light source you have if you have a good vacuum.
We all seem to strive for perfection but we have to remember that we are are printing shirts and not building rockets.
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is it possible to take a Vastex retro kit and put it in an MSP 3140?
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I have built a lot of my own equipment. I think it would be much cheaper to find the specs (how many lamps, distance between lamps and distance to glass, lamp type and strength etc) and look for a LED lamp supplier. Not a silk screen manufacturer.
It's interesting how everyone is dropping the point light theory and moving to LEDs. Personally I don't think it matters what light source you have if you have a good vacuum.
We all seem to strive for perfection but we have to remember that we are are printing shirts and not building rockets.
I can tell you that a 1k MH is MUCH MUCH better than an array of unfiltered black lights and of 2 400w Halogens when it comes to undercutting and holding detail on fully exposed screens. I have used the save vacuum top with all 3 options (all built myself) and can hold 55lpi down to the small percentages on my MH, and could barely hold 45lpi to a useable percentage on either of those others.
I think people are moving to LED specifically because it offers extremely quick exposure, not because it offers a gain in detail. Because it is directional and can be adjusted to prevent hot spots while still being close to the screen (unlike tubes) it also takes up less space and can have storage or drying racks under it.
I would move to LEDs in a heartbeat if it made sense financially for me. I have having big hot bulbs that have warmup times and take up floorspace etc.
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I've been messing around with some LED strip lamps.... with the hope of converting my metal halide exposure unit.
Currently I'm using 5050 SMD that emit 395-405 n/m. I think it will take about $125 of lamps and maybe $50 for a 12 volt power supply.
-- I've observed, it's important to not overdrive the lamps (keep the voltage at 12vdc, that's the rating on strip lamps that cluster 3 to a circuit).
-- My lamps are set on the strip 5/8" apart, so I'm planning on laying the strips 5/8" apart.
-- To build a field suitable to expose a 23 x 31 screen it would take about 1800 lamps (30 meters of strip).
-- I have no idea how far away from the glass to mount the lamps, but a little trial and error should solve that. I'll start about 4 inches away.
My primary goal is to get rid of the start up time required with metal halide.... and the re-strike time if you shut it off.
But, shorter exposure time would be great (especially if the cure is complete on screens with a thicker coating.. like 2x2 on a 120)
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-- I have no idea how far away from the glass to mount the lamps, but a little trial and error should solve that. I'll start about 4 inches away.
you should be able to use the dispersion angle of the LEDS and a bit of math to figure out the optimal distance to the glass/screen.
*I'm certainly not a math guy, so I can't help you much there.