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Heat Seal - Heat Press - Whatever you want to call it! => General Heat Seal => Topic started by: screenxpress on September 25, 2014, 10:47:23 PM
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Looks like I'm in the market for a new heat press.
What ya got and are ya really really happy with it?
I saw and really like the Hix HT 400, but a part-time guy like me ain't got them kind of shekels to toss around ;)
So looking for reasonable, not cheap, but good.
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I picked up a VERY old 16x20 analog geoknight from some woman on craigslist for $100 bucks a few years ago. The temp control had some kind of issue when I got it in my shop. At first I was a little disappointed cause it was so old but in such good shape otherwise.
I called up geoknight and not only did they have the parts in stock for a machine that is easily 20+ years old, but they shipped quick and were cheap, and they emailed step by step instructions on how to fix it. They also sell conversion kits if I want to make the press digital.
It works like a champ and I use it all the time. I really cant stress how awesome dealing with them was and how great the quality of the machine is. Next time I'm in the market I am going with them no question...
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Looks like I'm in the market for a new heat press.
What ya got and are ya really really happy with it?
I saw and really like the Hix HT 400, but a part-time guy like me ain't got them kind of shekels to toss around ;)
So looking for reasonable, not cheap, but good.
So, you determined that your problems were due to cold spots in the heat platen?
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I have a newish Geo Knight K20 (I believe) that I picked up used for around $800. Great press, digital and auto release. I would recommend it.
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Air operated=best
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Air operated=best
Agree 100% with Tony, an air machine will make your life and product much better.
~Kitson
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I have Hotronix Fusion 16x20 and a Geo Knight DK16 (14x16)
Fusion is a beast, I would love to have an air operated, but being a home based in my basement, air compressor is a no-go.
Originally, DK 16 was all, and I almost sold it when I got fusion. But with me doing a bit of sublimation I decided to keep it. It heats up a lot faster than Fusion and it is perfect for smaller jobs.
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I have both Hix and Geo Knight Presses.....IMO the DK20 holds pressure to the edge better and and I really like the way it opens....Both Hix and Geo Knight has lots of parts and help available...
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We're using a 16x20 Phoenix Phire, which I believe is a re-branded Hotronix STX20. We like it. It pops/unlocks itself when it it is done, but it does not actually auto-open.
The newer ones have a true auto-open and something which actually has settings for pressure. If we got a new heat press I'd like those features. I'd also like something with quick change pallets on our next one.
Air would be really sweet, but we don't do nearly enough heat pressing right now to justify the expense.
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We have 3 Hotronix Hover presses and 1 Hix air press. All good presses.
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Looks like I'm in the market for a new heat press.
What ya got and are ya really really happy with it?
I saw and really like the Hix HT 400, but a part-time guy like me ain't got them kind of shekels to toss around ;)
So looking for reasonable, not cheap, but good.
So, you determined that your problems were due to cold spots in the heat platen?
Andy, a few years back I had a local place press some numbers on a few shirts. They were awesome to offer a test using the ink jet transfer. Had a hix ht 400 and the same peel that never came off for me, peeled right off for them. So whatever is wrong almost has to be my used hix swingaway. So checking my options.
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Looks like I'm in the market for a new heat press.
What ya got and are ya really really happy with it?
I saw and really like the Hix HT 400, but a part-time guy like me ain't got them kind of shekels to toss around ;)
So looking for reasonable, not cheap, but good.
So, you determined that your problems were due to cold spots in the heat platen?
Andy, a few years back I had a local place press see one numbers on a few shirts. They were awesome to offer a test using the ink jet transfer. Had a hix ht 400 and the same peel that never came off for me, peeled right off for them. So whatever is wrong almost has to be my used hix swingaway. So checking my options.
Well, you can check the platen with heat strips, and/or your non-contact gun. The gun won't give you an accurate temp, but will show consistency. Also, is there any chance that your pad is so worn in spots that you get uneven pressure?
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I'm kind of at wits end. The unit really looks in great shape. Pad looks nice and even and not worn. I know what the settings were that the place did on the trial run yesterday. I did notice they had quite a bit of pressure. I thought I had a lot of pressure, but I'll give it one more shot tomorrow at about the same settings and even more pressure. I'll post the results.
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I'm kind of at wits end. The unit really looks in great shape. Pad looks nice and even and not worn. I know what the settings were that the place did on the trial run yesterday. I did notice they had quite a bit of pressure. I thought I had a lot of pressure, but I'll give it one more shot tomorrow at about the same settings and even more pressure. I'll post the results.
I am still curious if you get consistent heat readings over all of your heat platen. They do develop cold dead spots as they start to die.
I never asked you if there was any consistency to the location of the problem areas.
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I don't really think it's from cold spots.
I had an 11 inch wide sofstretch image that I tried pressing more than once and I could not peel any of it off without it ripping in shreds. I was watching them press with the Hix clamshell and he put some umph on it. Mine is a swingaway and I thought I had a lot of pressure but I'll try to max it tomorrow and see.
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Little off topic, but when dealing with vinyl, is there any problem with more heat, time and pressure than on the instructions?
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Little off topic, but when dealing with vinyl, is there any problem with more heat, time and pressure than on the instructions?
IMO, yes......Vinyl is a petroleum product and too much oF anything dries it out and causes it to crack sooner sooner rather than later.....
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That's a good point.
My guys answer to when he is having problems is to cook it longer, hotter, harder... So now I have a reason to tell them not to try that.
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I have actually found the opposite with many things. Shorter, lighter, or cooler often solves issues with adhesion. Typically it is changing one or two of those variables in a seemingly counterintuitive way that make the difference. For most of my tag transfers I find that very little pressure and a short time, but high heat works better than standard heat longer time or more pressure.
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I don't really think it's from cold spots.
I had an 11 inch wide sofstretch image that I tried pressing more than once and I could not peel any of it off without it ripping in shreds. I was watching them press with the Hix clamshell and he put some umph on it. Mine is a swingaway and I thought I had a lot of pressure but I'll try to max it tomorrow and see.
My experience, with inkjet transfers like Jet Pro Soft Stretch, has been that peeling problems are usually due to cooling off. It has to still be hot!
I have sometimes had to cover with a sheet and repress it to be able to peel the paper that stuck.
I wonder if perhaps you are not hot enough in the first place.
Also on the question of increasing time, heat or pressure. Follow the general rule of troubleshooting and change only one variable at a time.
Too much of any one of these factors can actually melt vinyl or at least reduce opacity as well.
With cad-cut vinyl, a second pressing with a cover sheet is always good insurance
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Temping your heat press is always a good idea. Checking for cold spots, 10-20-30 degrees off of the set temp, etc is important info as well as staying away from the edge.
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I have actually found the opposite with many things. Shorter, lighter, or cooler often solves issues with adhesion. Typically it is changing one or two of those variables in a seemingly counterintuitive way that make the difference. For most of my tag transfers I find that very little pressure and a short time, but high heat works better than standard heat longer time or more pressure.
What transfer material for this specific issue of adhesion problem?
Stahls has always taught that increasing any one of the holy transfer trinity and reducing another is the way to fine tune.
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The adhesive used on heat transfer vinyl melt at a certain time, temperature and pressure....At the optimum point the glue is melted and pressed into the garment.....Under do it and the glue does not melt....Over do it and the glue goes in too deep or sets up too quick....There is a margin both ways but best to hit in the centre of the zone for best result....
If you need to use less or more heat, it may be a calibration issue....
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I have done hundreds of Vinyl transfers and they peel off like butter. The problems I have been experiencing leading to this thread are with the Jet Pro Sofstretch (Andy knows this but the others posting or reading may not).
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Is your press cooling off too much between presses resulting in too low of temperature when you complete your cycle?..
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Wish you could be here to watch.
I don't see how I can have any cooling spot(s), that damn paper is so hot when I start to pull, I have to keep grabbing in short bursts in various places, lol. I mean it is HOT!
I'm not in a serious hurry as I don't have any orders to fill right now, but I am going to try and use a blank shirt and heat gun this afternoon to just try and check any serious temperature anomalies.
I know this should not make a difference, but going to ask. Because the previous owner had evidently gotten ink on the underside and I've been unable to clean it off short of sandblasing, I was using a teflon sheet over on top of the transfer paper (between the top plate and the transfer). Surely that could not diminish the heat enough to be a problem....right?
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Wish you could be here to watch.
I don't see how I can have any cooling spot(s), that damn paper is so hot when I start to pull, I have to keep grabbing in short bursts in various places, lol. I mean it is HOT!
I'm not in a serious hurry as I don't have any orders to fill right now, but I am going to try and use a blank shirt and heat gun this afternoon to just try and check any serious temperature anomalies.
I know this should not make a difference, but going to ask. Because the previous owner had evidently gotten ink on the underside and I've been unable to clean it off short of sandblasing, I was using a teflon sheet over on top of the transfer paper (between the top plate and the transfer). Surely that could not diminish the heat enough to be a problem....right?
Some heat transfer suppliers say teflon can reduce the temperature up to 25 degrees.....I think it is more like 10 or 15 degrees.....Certainly some reduction...
http://www.seaygraphics.com/Plastisol_Transfer_Price_List.html (http://www.seaygraphics.com/Plastisol_Transfer_Price_List.html)
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With the inkjet transfer, if I use a cover sheet at all, it's only the thin brown craft paper. Wayne, if I were you, I'd try one of your transfers without any cover sheet. See what happens on a scrap. Can't hurt.
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I have a Hix Ht400P. Works as it should. Before that I bought a used Geo Knight and had problems with transfers not peeling right, leaving some of the design on the paper, etc. There were two problems...first, the lady I bought it from must have had it in a very humid area because under the rubber the plate had started to rust BADLY. I peeled that rubber up and there were rust chunks 1/8" or better. Also the arms were kind of worn out and wallowed at the holes leaving some slop.
Both of these problems caused uneven pressure. One guy told me to line dollar bills around the perimeter, half on the rubber, half sticking over and clamp it down to where the dollar bill in the front won't move. If you can move any other bill you have uneven pressure. You can also try it with tightening down until a dollar bill in a different spot doesn't move and double check the rest just to make sure the front one wasn't the "high spot."
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Okay, here's the update.
I checked the temp as best I could with a temp gun. The gun did seem to show some differences, but I would not go so far as to say cold spots.
I took one of the mini transfers (a 6 inch version of the 11 inch one) and cranked up the pressure some and increased the temperature to about 400. After 20 seconds of pressing, the backing peeled right off. This was without the teflon sheet.
So, feeling brave, I pulled out the 4 dri-fit shirts the customer supplied (was a side part of a larger non-dri-fit order) and the last 4 11 inch transfers I had printed a week back.
Even though I burned my fingers pulling off the backing (that stuff is hot), I think it peeled off like it's supposed to. Extremely little ink was left on the paper and the backing peeled off pretty even. I did have two that ripped where half came off but I was able to grab the other half and it pulled off in one piece. Prints really look great.
I think the teflon sheet may have been the culprit. The reason I had been using the teflon in the first place was on the first print attempt a week or two back, a little bit of plastic residue from some bags I had done a month ago got on the shirt and messed it up a little. I cleaned the plastic residue and entire bottom of the element and thought I was playing it safe using the teflon.
Looks like I might have created my own problem with the sheet. I'm not even sure I had to run at 400. I'll experiment some more, but I think I'm on the right track now and feel a lot more comfortable using the sofstretch transfers.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
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Boy, I wish that you had mentioned the Teflon sheet a month ago when we started talking about this! LOL!
Now, you're gonna love that stuff. ;D
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I'd like to get some solid info on what adding a Teflon sheet does... We use one a LOT for various reasons and maybe we need to make some adjustments.
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Plain and simple, it insulates a bit. Depending on how thick it is, and how close to the lowest acceptable temp for a particular material, you are pressing, will determine if it will adversely affect your results.
I am figuring that screenxpress' machine is off calibration a bit, and running lower than it indicates. Combined with the additional insulation, this paper was not getting hot enough to completely adhere the plastic membrane to the fabric, so some remained on the paper when peeled.
30 seconds at 375 (25 at 390) is indicated and critical, and a lot more heat than the 5-15 seconds at 300-330 that the various vinyl and polypropylene films we use require.
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I guess an idea of how much of a temp drop was what I was looking for, I understand what is happening but just cranking up the heat X degrees isn't a solution if you don't know what X might be.
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I guess an idea of how much of a temp drop was what I was looking for, I understand what is happening but just cranking up the heat X degrees isn't a solution if you don't know what X might be.
Perhaps a cheap thermometer like this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF5MT/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003X4GX92&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1QYANVG9WKZ77YV2TFSM), or a plain end cable type probe for your Atkins (if you have one) could give you an idea.
Royster referenced a transfer supplier who warned of drops as much as 25 degrees.
Begs the question: why use one? They are generally used to add a "screen printed" look to vinyl. If your heat platen is dirty, a piece of kraft paper is a lot less problematic.
And, If I had to use teflon, and I had no way of checking my machine, I would merely apply a transfer without, to establish correct temperature, and then, with the sheet, crank it up in increments of ten or so degrees, until I had consistent results.
Wayne's problems stem from no experience with this material. Not the best situation to fudge critical conditions.
Of course, when I say critical, it really still has some leeway, it's just that he was obviously too close to minimum temp to start with.
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Get a bead probe like Frog said or a set of tempeture crayons, mark a test shirt and press to see which one turns.
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I just need to find my k type probe now.
We do a lot of multi color stuff or mixed media, 3G and vinyl or screen print and vinyl or screen print and 3G.
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Is there any issue pressing on a front ink jet crest print when you have a finished ink jet back print?
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Not if you use a teflon pillow inside.
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I've only got a handful of these. Nobody local sells a teflon pillow. What do you think of using a folded towel inside?
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Sometimes you can find ironing board covers that can be sewn into a pad....
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There have been times I've used towels instead of the rubber pad, and cardboard and masonite inside instead of a pillow.
You'll probably be fine.
The pillows are especially useful to minimize seam pressure marks.
Sometimes, especially for small prints, you can just slip the shirt over the lower platen like on a shirt board, and not have to worry about the existing back print.
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I only have have to put a crest print down so I'm going to try the towel method.
Thanks all. I figured I'd put this in the post so others might benefit from my learning experience.