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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: 3Deep on October 02, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
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Ron Hopkins just left the shop, we spent the morning going over the starlight and exposing some screens, and I was blow the hell away with the unit. I can't say enough about how good the unit preformed just a little detail we burn a 305 yellow mesh with a 55 line halftone and it washed out like a dream under a soft flow of water not a hard wash with a pressure washer, just a garden hose sprayer, then we did a 8 to 10 year old film from Scott Fresner that has a 55 lpi calling for a 305 mesh, so I tossed it on a 160 white mesh and Sh!$t it burned every halftone. Yeah I still like my Anatol folks but I a big ole fan now of the Starlight and when I get a few sec I'll post some printed T-shirt pics from the screens we burn...Thanks Ron nice meeting ya.
darryl
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Ron's a good guy. Knows his stuff, and sells good equipment
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Love our starlight!
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Good you hear that you're advancing further. One other thing about having Ron there, the exposure times will be dead on for sure. If something isn't ever holding, it's because of some other output issue like the film printer device or the actual art file itself.
I hate to see people buy new equipment and something like an exposure time or something hasn't been honed in on to it's optimum potential. Some of my install customers are like. (yea man, that is holding good) and I'm like, yea it is, it's what you've been doing, (but) we can use this additional step and get it even better. Some shops that were holding 10% as their minimum can now hold 3%. I've seen down to 2% and even 1% being held on the screens now, but the curve is actually beefed up in that area slightly and they are really holding about a 3%. Still tho, NOW, when doing a soft fade to the shirt, they don't get that saw toothed or hard drop off at the small dots. I don't know for sure, but I kinda think (base don what I've seen so far) that the LED lights are a tad more accurate or easier to get precise times (precise exposures) with than the more traditional light options.
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I would kill to see a close up (loupe) photo of the same film burned with a MH and a LED unit.
Then same thing with CTS and film. Of course having exposure dialed in for both units would
be necessary though.
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Oh I forgot all burn times were at 9 seconds
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Starlight is the mutts nutts! No doubt about it!
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We love our Starlight. 8)
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Hey D, Anatol has one too. Bigger size now for the same price as what the smaller one was and stand is included. The unit will accept up to 25x36 frames, I know that wouldn't matter to you with your press though. Just thought you may want to be color consistent lol.
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I would kill to see a close up (loupe) photo of the same film burned with a MH and a LED unit.
Then same thing with CTS and film. Of course having exposure dialed in for both units would
be necessary though.
I might could pull this off if we slow down a little bit. I can take some stuff to Kevin's at River City if he's got a working demo of the Vastex unit and maybe he'll let me run some tests. I can't promise anything but if at all possible I will do it, with Kevin's consent of course. Doesn't a few of the starlight owners have their old MH units that they could test or is most everyone coming from a much lower powered light source to the LED?
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I would kill to see a close up (loupe) photo of the same film burned with a MH and a LED unit.
Then same thing with CTS and film. Of course having exposure dialed in for both units would
be necessary though.
I might could pull this off if we slow down a little bit. I can take some stuff to Kevin's at River City if he's got a working demo of the Vastex unit and maybe he'll let me run some tests. I can't promise anything but if at all possible I will do it, with Kevin's consent of course. Doesn't a few of the starlight owners have their old MH units that they could test or is most everyone coming from a much lower powered light source to the LED?
Again, I'd kill to see this. So just name the person....
We run two metal halide units to keep up with diazo/demand. So as long as quality is the same or better it's a no brainer,
but I've yet to see the visual proof there unfortunately. I understand that exposing screens hundreds of times faster is
going to be exciting no matter what, but excitement without attention to the proofs doesn't sell me. Too many variables
involved in our process to add more for the sake of speed.
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We have both MH (Ameragraph) and a Starlight, I don't know when id have time or the spare screens to waste but if I see that opportunity present itself I will do it. However id never suggest our exposure is dialed exactly in so maybe seek someone that has a little more time to focus on perfect test.
Didn't someone do a test like this on this board already? Ive slept since then but seems like it was done.
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i freaking love this machine. we've had ours for about 3 weeks or so. we do not do a ton of detailed stuff, but did burn a few 305s with 55lpi and they came out beautiful. screens held up, no breakdowns and i feel we got all the detail.
for us the biggest thing was speed. our old 401-K was slow. very slow. what used to be 2 hours of work a day exposing and washing out is now 30 min. we have been very busy and taking some time off one part of the operation has been priceless.
btw, we used aquasol hvp. white meshes are about 8 seconds and yellow are about 6. seems to be dialed in for us pretty good now.
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I will say that when I tested the Vastex unit months back under the loupe there wasn't much difference between the MH and LED screens. I think there was a little less edge definition on the LED stencils but it was so close that I'm not sure it would show up on a printed shirt. But I didn't focus too much on the comparables between the two except for burn times and a quick look at the stencil quality. This time I'll pay much more attention to the overall quality...assuming I can find the time to do this.
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I do love these current conversations on the lights. Eb, 2 metal halides at the same time? or 2 exposure units, meaning vacuum frames too? You would save quite a bit from what I understand on power alone, I know our 5K Violux draws a fair amount of amperage... my partner and I are seriously considering a new light, and keep the old one and wall frame for emergencies...
Steve
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Two exposure units.
PG&E, the local power monopoly, puts us on time of use metering starting November. Luckily the majority
of our utilities is gas, but still.
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Here are prints of the films we shot this morning the deer is my art and was a simprocess film seped at 55lpi 25 angle back then...the dolphin was from Scott Fresner seped at 55lpi and at 25 angle. the deer was burn on a 305 yellow mesh screen, the dolphin on a 160 white mesh (which called for a 305) both look good the deer better because of the right mesh count but the dolphin didn't do bad being on the wrong mesh, both burn at 9 seconds each washout very easy ( no pressure washer, garden hose sprayer)
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are those the white underbases printed in black?
Steve
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We're getting a Starlight 3140.
Two reasons:
- Takes up less space in the screen room than our big MH + 2up vac frame setup.
- Uses far less power.
Side benefit is we don't have light all over the place when shooting screens, an enclosed unit is nice in certain layouts and will really dovetail with coating, pinning film where needed and running CTS all in one space.
We'll save about $3k up front as dropping the 23-29a draw of the Olec 5k will keep us from needing to run more power into the space. Not to mention we aren't drawing that 23a for hours at a go and running up the meter. The Olec's and prob most MH units with a shutter do kick down to a low power mode with the shutter closed but it doesn't help us too much as some of our burn times are well up in the minutes, not seconds with certain screens. (HSA primarily)
I wondered about DC/WB durability but that appears to be resolved at this point (pun?).
I also wondered about detail and edge shape. I watched some video someone posted to when I was sick in bed and had nothing to do about a month or two back. It had I think Scott Fresner and Richard Greaves talking about new gear they saw at an expo. Greaves did a MH v. LED and saw only a very slight difference between them that he felt would have zero impact on textile printing and only be a real concern for very high detail flatstock, etc. Nuf said for me, I respect Richard's opinion above all when it comes to stencils.
Anatol's unit makes a lot more sense in it's size (runs 2 screens at up to 23x33 at once) and with the vac pressure triggering the exposure v. a drawdown timer. I don't understand why the Starlight 3140 is just a few inches shy of being able to shoot (2) 23x31 screens, seems weird they wouldn't just add a few inches so it could do this. We shoot 2up all day in here and it would save a lot of time on our longer burning stencils. Regardless, I'm not buying anything from Anatol ever again and I did mention these two things to my M&R rep so maybe they'll take it into consideration.
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I would kill to see a close up (loupe) photo of the same film burned with a MH and a LED unit.
Then same thing with CTS and film. Of course having exposure dialed in for both units would
be necessary though.
I might could pull this off if we slow down a little bit. I can take some stuff to Kevin's at River City if he's got a working demo of the Vastex unit and maybe he'll let me run some tests. I can't promise anything but if at all possible I will do it, with Kevin's consent of course. Doesn't a few of the starlight owners have their old MH units that they could test or is most everyone coming from a much lower powered light source to the LED?
Again, I'd kill to see this. So just name the person....
We run two metal halide units to keep up with diazo/demand. So as long as quality is the same or better it's a no brainer,
but I've yet to see the visual proof there unfortunately. I understand that exposing screens hundreds of times faster is
going to be exciting no matter what, but excitement without attention to the proofs doesn't sell me. Too many variables
involved in our process to add more for the sake of speed.
You have no risk with our unit. If you are not 100% happy with it we will take it back and give you all your money back(including freight). If you are going to use comparisons on m.v, to LED do yourself a favor and use the data from the Starlight. All LED units are not the same.
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Take a few minutes to check out the Vastex unit... fits 2 frames and is a few thousand $ less than M&R
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We use 25x36" frames, so it will only fit one of ours unfortunately. I'll be taking a close look at all available options
but would love it if the manufacturers had close up pics of what there unit is capable of. Exposure can be such a mystery...
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Eb, you can do this yourself. Is all your work fine details and halftones?
If not then replace ONE of your MH units with an LED unit and do the side by side yourself. Even if it isn't good enough for you, you could still run all the "basic" stuff that the LED would work for and run the fine high brow stuff on old faithful. Best case scenario it's everything you ever wanted in an exposer unit, worst case scenario is you have best of both worlds.
You already take up two spots with exposure units now... This would also provide you with the backup you need if something were to go wrong.
Get table top version and if it's all that and the bag of chips, then slap it on top of the exposure unit you will keep as a backup and you regain one exposure units floor space.
Send me a pizza for all the money and time I just saved you. ;)
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Genius! Your address for your pizza prize?
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We are ditching our dual cure emulsion for diazo, SP-1400 to be exact, do the LED units have the broad spectral output needed for this?
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We are ditching our dual cure emulsion for diazo, SP-1400 to be exact, do the LED units have the broad spectral output needed for this?
Cant answer for others but our will work great on SP-1400
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I use sp1400 with our starlight with no problems at all.
160 mesh screens at around 40 sec.
200-230 mesh screens at around 27 sec.
305 mesh screens at around 21 sec.
we've run 1000+ pc discharge orders with no breakdown in the screens whatsoever.
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We are ditching our dual cure emulsion for diazo, SP-1400 to be exact, do the LED units have the broad spectral output needed for this?
The Starlight units have been tested by several emulsion manufacturers and many customers, so far we have not found an emulsion that it would not work with. SBQ (pure Photopolymer) emulsions will be faster, but it works just as good with the Diazos and Dual-Cures when the correct exposure time is dialed in. Because there are some major differences between the different LED units in the field, this statement applies to the Starlight units.
Daryl, it was great to get to make some screens with you and visit with you this morning.
Ron Hopkins
NuArc Sales Mgr
M&R Sales and Service Co.
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Ron, how are exposure times with the starlight without glass as compared with? I have no glass in my Starlight and my times with emulsions mentioned above are way different. When can you come by my shop?
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We run glass in ours, until we get our I-Image.
what are your times like for SP1400 without glass?
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Genius! Your address for your pizza prize?
You know, that used to be on my business card. ;) I had too many titles (Sound Engineer, Lighting Director, Computer Consultant)... I just came up with a card that said:
Kevin Richard
Genius
;)
Address is on the website. ;)
http://www.acadianatshirts.com/ (http://www.acadianatshirts.com/)
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Ron when ya coming to Louisiana?!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Jason, I am going to try to get up your way within the next two weeks. I will let you know.
tancehughes, give me a little more time, but I do have plans to come over your way. I will let you know when I can work that out. Bottom line, seeing is believing!
Ron Hopkins
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Great meeting you to Ron, and guess what a guy from the other shop walked in about 5 minutes after you left, he is interested in the starlight he just bought a diamondback.
darryl
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Awesome that this came up, we've been talking about this at the shop last few days. Our old unit is showing it age and I'd really like an LED unit at the SGIA show.
Rich - are you guys running any "first time M&R customer" deals at the SGIA show? ;)
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Great meeting you to Ron, and guess what a guy from the other shop walked in about 5 minutes after you left, he is interested in the starlight he just bought a diamondback.
darryl
Wow, that is a killer, I can't believe we waited so long for them to show up and then he showed up after I left. It would have been great to have them see what you were able to see.
Ron
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Awesome that this came up, we've been talking about this at the shop last few days. Our old unit is showing it age and I'd really like an LED unit at the SGIA show.
Rich - are you guys running any "first time M&R customer" deals at the SGIA show? ;)
there is a show special. There is a show just about every week so a special every week!
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Awesome that this came up, we've been talking about this at the shop last few days. Our old unit is showing it age and I'd really like an LED unit at the SGIA show.
Rich - are you guys running any "first time M&R customer" deals at the SGIA show? ;)
there is a show special. There is a show just about every week so a special every week!
Wow, add that to the TSB member preferred customer discount and you're giving them away! ;D
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I'll stop by the booth at SGIA. What's list on a 3140?
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Frog come with me, you can do the talking!
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Just tell 'em you know me, they'll treat you right! ;D
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I'll stop by the booth at SGIA. What's list on a 3140?
same as the show special. See you at the show!
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I'd love to wait till the show to see all of these in person but we need it sooner than that and if the niners make it to
the championships I won't be able to attend anyways.
That said, there was some grumbling about the way the Starlight 3140 operated in not having a vacuum gauge or countdown
or something? From what I read in the equipment brochure on it that is no longer the case? Looking for something
like our Nuarc 3140, select exposure time, press button, walk away. If no vacuum - no exposure. That the case?
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we don't even have a vaccum on our starlight, but we are cts. It exposes great.
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I'd love to wait till the show to see all of these in person but we need it sooner than that and if the niners make it to
the championships I won't be able to attend anyways.
That said, there was some grumbling about the way the Starlight 3140 operated in not having a vacuum gauge or countdown
or something? From what I read in the equipment brochure on it that is no longer the case? Looking for something
like our Nuarc 3140, select exposure time, press button, walk away. If no vacuum - no exposure. That the case?
that's the case. We added the sensor for vacuum and storing recipes
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that's the case. We added the sensor for vacuum and storing recipes
Thanks, that's exactly what I was asking.
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Rich, when did you all add the sensor on the vac and expo storage to the larger model? I was told this wasn't available on it but definitely want it on ours.
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These features have come about over the past few weeks. Adding the vacuum sensor will likely not be able to be done in the field, but we are working on being able to add the memories to units in the field.
Ron Hopkins
NuArc Sales Mgr
M&R Sales & Service
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Anatol has the sensor standard on all units. And their standard unit size will accept a 25x36 frame and come with a stand as well for under 4k.
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Has anyone had or heard anything about this unit aside from the one guy a month or so ago? Kinda crazy how they are able to sell a unit for nearly half what others go for. Makes me wonder what I am missing, or maybe what that unit is missing.... Wish it was made by another company, I'd have interest.
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Or maybe what the markup on these really are?
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Or maybe what the markup on these really are?
didn't team blue bail you out when your press arrived damaged? just curious why you would look anywhere else but blue machines after that.... :o
we love our starlight. I actually got to use it the past few days and it's comforting to know exposure is set in stone forever. one less variable to worry about.
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Or maybe what the markup on these really are?
didn't team blue bail you out when your press arrived damaged? just curious why you would look anywhere else but blue machines after that.... :o
we love our starlight. I actually got to use it the past few days and it's comforting to know exposure is set in stone forever. one less variable to worry about.
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To me the vacuum sensor is inconsequential. It takes so little time to vacuum and expose that I can't do anything else in that time anyway. So I have to wait 10 seconds for vacuum and hit start, wait 7 seconds later and get a perfect screen? I'm fine with that.
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I'll no longer care about the vacuum timer or vacuum sensor in a few weeks either (when we go CTS)
but for now, at the end of a long day, when you're burning screens for tomorrow, sometimes it's easy to forget to hit the vacuum switch and wait before hitting the 'start' switch... and was what brought up my complaint in the current method.
however, I think that 'preset' exposure settings would be REALLY nice to have, as we definitely expose differently for a 160 vs a 200 vs a 305.
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Its soooo nice not waiting on vacuum and just exposing.
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I'll no longer care about the vacuum timer or vacuum sensor in a few weeks either (when we go CTS)
but for now, at the end of a long day, when you're burning screens for tomorrow, sometimes it's easy to forget to hit the vacuum switch and wait before hitting the 'start' switch... and was what brought up my complaint in the current method.
however, I think that 'preset' exposure settings would be REALLY nice to have, as we definitely expose differently for a 160 vs a 200 vs a 305.
Jealous of the CTS. You're definitely moving on up! Anyway, I just leave the vacuum switch on and turn it on/off with the power switch. As soon as I latch it and turn it on it starts vacuuming.
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.. but then you have to manually program the time every time you expose
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Or maybe what the markup on these really are?
didn't team blue bail you out when your press arrived damaged? just curious why you would look anywhere else but blue machines after that.... :o
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Issues Homie
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Not so. After it completes and beeps I hit stop. Shut it off. Pull my screen out, pull off the film and put a new screen in. Turn it back on. Then after a couple seconds my display comes back. It either has my last time or if I hit the up arrow it shows up then. Just hit start when vacuum is done.
Now if I mess around for a bit in between, it will lose the time. I don't know how long it holds it but I have enough time to switch screens.
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Mine loses the time after about 2 seconds, literally.
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That's weird. I just thought that was how it worked. I got mine in July, not sure if that would make a difference.
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That's weird. I just thought that was how it worked. I got mine in July, not sure if that would make a difference.
Your two units should work exactly the same.
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I can power my main down, then fire it back up and it recalls my last time I used. I did that on accident, that's how I found out. I think it's an 8 sec draw so it's not a huge deal at all. And you guy know we work casual, not balls out, nice and comfortable pace. I put a screen in, put a cover blanket over top, compress the lid, set the time, then vacuum, start - open the lid, place a new screen in and repeat...while that one is drawing/exposing I peel film and pick the tape off and toss it away.
I can hear all the CTS guys going eww tape and film..I know, I hate it too. :-[
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I can power my main down, then fire it back up and it recalls my last time I used. I did that on accident, that's how I found out. I think it's an 8 sec draw so it's not a huge deal at all. And you guy know we work casual, not balls out, nice and comfortable pace. I put a screen in, put a cover blanket over top, compress the lid, set the time, then vacuum, start - open the lid, place a new screen in and repeat...while that one is drawing/exposing I peel film and pick the tape off and toss it away.
I can hear all the CTS guys going eww tape and film..I know, I hate it too. :-[
You know your spending like a 100 a year on tape right?
Sorry couldn't resist.
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I can power my main down, then fire it back up and it recalls my last time I used. I did that on accident, that's how I found out. I think it's an 8 sec draw so it's not a huge deal at all. And you guy know we work casual, not balls out, nice and comfortable pace. I put a screen in, put a cover blanket over top, compress the lid, set the time, then vacuum, start - open the lid, place a new screen in and repeat...while that one is drawing/exposing I peel film and pick the tape off and toss it away.
I can hear all the CTS guys going eww tape and film..I know, I hate it too. :-[
You know your spending like a 100 a year on tape right?
Sorry couldn't resist.
YUP... and I paid CASH, like a BOSS... ;D
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YUP... and I paid CASH, like a BOSS... ;D
BALLER!
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The way our NuArc stores and recalls exposure times takes longer than to manually punch in the time.
It would be cool if it operated like a snack vending machine "push D-7 for a Snickers" and then you push
D-8 and get a lousy kit kat.
For all day every day kind of work we have only 6 or so mesh counts.
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The way our NuArc stores and recalls exposure times takes longer than to manually punch in the time.
It would be cool if it operated like a snack vending machine "push D-7 for a Snickers" and then you push
D-8 and get a lousy kit kat.
For all day every day kind of work we have only 6 or so mesh counts.
I agree with you, it would be nice if you had some presets on the machine. It's not a huge deal or anything but would be cool!
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Not really anything to do with the Starlight or LED per say, but the last few months our exposure unit has been stuck on a specific preset and only later in the day does the button start working, so we have been burning a lot of our screens the same time regardless of mesh count and it's worked out fine. Luckily it stuck on 5 light units which works for low and high mesh counts with the HVP having a large exposure latitude. Higher mesh screens with fine lines and halftones were slightly overexposed and low mesh was a little underexposed but we managed to burn hundreds of screens at the same light unit setting without any real issues. Maybe a few more pinholes here and there but not that noticeable.