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screen printing => Separations => Topic started by: JasonMoore on August 27, 2011, 09:38:17 AM
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Hi everyone,
Ok...I've been in the screenprinting biz for close to 20 years as an artist and have always done straight vector artwork. The shop I work at isn't really interested in doing the higher end type of stuff...they just want straight vector spot colors with minimal halftones.....
Well, this has always just put me in the mindset of....why even try it if we'll never actually print them....I know that sounds bad, but I've just been discouraged from getting into the whole process and learning it. I always figured you'd need to actually see the final printed product to learn what you did right or wrong and what to adjust or work on from there on the next project.
A few weeks ago, one of the printers at the shop was contacted by a local Haunted House company that wanted to get shirts done and they provided a high res PSD file of the artwork they wanted on the shirts. I looked at it and said 'sorry, that type of art can't be done in vector' and he said well do what ever you have to do to sep it because they want a ton of shirts. SOOOOO, I decided to take the plunge and try my hand at my first Index Seps.
I tried to learn as much as I could from the forums, tutorials online and videos on Youtube concerning the process.
I'm attaching all of my files in the hopes that the peeps here with tons of knowledge might take a few minutes to look over what I did and give any pointers to me. I know we are all very busy but I'd like you to know that any info / tips on how I can improve on what I did with this design (I can still improve and redo the seps as we've only done a few samples and not the whole order yet) is going to be highly valued and appreciated.
Info:
Black - Best T 50/50 T-shirts
White Underbase - 200 Mesh
PMS Red 485 - 305 Mesh
PMS Brown 483 - 305 Mesh
PMS Orange 185 - 305 Mesh
PMS Yellow 123 - 305 Mesh
White Highlight - 200 Mesh
So, with that being said, here's links to the actual files....
1.) This is the original PSD file that the customer gave me to work from, created by them.
http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/Tshirt_8_9_11.psd (http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/Tshirt_8_9_11.psd)
2.) This is the file AFTER I made what I thought were the adjustments needed for the design to have brighter colors and better light and dark contrasts.
http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/dave_haunted_house.psd (http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/dave_haunted_house.psd)
3.) This is the file after I did the Index Seps on it and what we used to print the final sample shirt
http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/dave_haunted_house_revised.psd (http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/dave_haunted_house_revised.psd)
Here's a link to photos I've taken of the final printed T-shirt for you to see how it turned out....they are all of the JPG files in this directory.
I apologize for some of them being ever so slightly blurry.
4.) http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/ (http://www.inkmachine.com/feargrounds/)
Thanks any of you who would take the time to look at these and help me learn. =)
I was very happy with the results with it being my very first time, but I do know there were things done wrong and things I can definitely improve upon with it.
THANKS A LOT!!! =)
Jason
Ink Machine Productions
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I will point out some of the most important key factors in doing Index.
1, The resolution of the file (the size of each pixel) is all the same size, (being 150). So, for starters, all of your mesh (even the base) should all be the same --- Unless, you have a resolution that is low enough to work on the 230...and then the 300's are just for a thinner layer of ink. Since indexing prints the dots side by side, that layering it thin plays a negative affect.
2, The resolution is actually too low for that art in my opinion. It's been my experience that 220-235 resolutions can be used on 305 mesh screen. This produces a more photo quality print.
3, This soft whispy airbrush work is not the best type of art for indexing (especially at low color counts). It leaves it very blotchy.
4, when indexing, you want to use as many colors as possible to produce more accurate results. you are using 4 actual colors. I suggest to get the most out of indexing, that you use at least 8 colors + the whites at a minimum (for optimum results). That is not to say that you can't get good results out of less colors. Each job is different. This art would do much better at 6-7actual colors + the two whites.
Thanks for the examples.
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Yea, considering it is your Very first attempt, you did a good job.
If you get a chance, follow Dan's points and resep the file at a higher resolution. Then print another sample to see how it differs. You will see a BIG difference.
Conversely, I would strongly recomend that, If you have a chance to play with Sim-Process on this one, you do it.
It will sep well into 4 screens.
1) base white - 230 mesh
2) Red of choice. A more muted red like pms 186 or 032 would be a better choice than an off the shelf bright red for this design - 305 mesh
3) Yellow of choice - 305 mesh
4) Highlite white - 305 mesh
You will acheive all your oranges and browns using the above print sequence.
Oh, and talk them into 100% cotton next time ;)
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Heya Guys,
Thanks for the tips and info! It's greatly appreciated =)
I had to keep the designs colors to a minimum from what I was told, so I tried to do the seps with the amount I thought would still give a good print.
I read somewhere that when doing index seps that a lower resolution was better and to actually never go above 150dpi on the resolution of the original artwork. I thought that was odd, but I did these based on that tutorial. Now I know better =)
I'm also interested in getting to learn Sim-Process as well and how it differs from Index Seps. Any time I bring up the word 'Process' at the shop, everyone cringes and runs away and says no way...even though I try to tell them it's not cmyk but SPOT COLORS LOL
I am going to play with this some more before we do the final shirts and see if I am able to improve on it with your help and tips =)
Thanks again!! =)
Jason
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I also forgot yo say, yes, for your first time, I agree. You did a good job. I'm sure mine was very similar.
I don't know where you got that information on indexing, but it might have come from someone who was not that good at it themselves. You see alot of that type of information over at Teeshirtforums. I'm not knocking that place. Hes got a good site. It's just that type of members for the most part.
I am doing a stochastic job with Pierre. It's not indexing. Stochastic is similar but no pattern and is mixed into other colors like sim process is. I will admit, we are pushing it to the max, by using 277 resolution on this job. Pierre is a bit nervous on this one, but I have faith in him. You will see examples and details once we can.
Indexing puts dots side by side and technically does not blend well. It relies on high resolution and multiple colors to get photo quality. It's best used on art with slot of fine detail abd textures like a watercolor painting.
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Great job for as first timer! Sure it was way better than anything I could have done.
I'm already behind the 8 on this as when I opened the original file, I'm missing fonts ;D
That 150 res thing I heard many yrs ago. Almost had a fist fight with my old artist when we got into it about his index seps for a facial tone job, told him flat out i need more detail.. it's already at 150 bro, how much more do you need.. gimme 200 -225! WhaaaatTTT!!! It'll never work.. arg blah blah blah.. 2 hours later i had a new set of seps at 200 and our index work improved overnight. We did some more testing and went as high as 240 before we started losing some detail due to SBQ emulsion. i'm sure with some diazo based we could have held and printed a 250 res file with ease. It's amazing how well an index prints, it's getting the inks to work in harmony that makes you pull your hair out.
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I have a few links to articles/tutes on this
Perhaps they will offer some help, and perhaps some of out resident experts can critique them.
http://www.teedesign.com/Technical_Info.htm (http://www.teedesign.com/Technical_Info.htm)
http://www.jimiyo.com/indexseps.htm (http://www.jimiyo.com/indexseps.htm)
http://www.brighthub.com/multimedia/publishing/articles/1319.aspx (http://www.brighthub.com/multimedia/publishing/articles/1319.aspx)
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That Jimiyo link is an amazing tutorial. I had only done a few index seps and while they had come out ok, I knew I could do much better.
First time I read it, it confirmed a lot I had thought about and taught me a few new things as well.
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I have a few links to articles/tutes on this
Thanks Andy.. I was supposed to burn screens this AM.. now I'm on my 2nd cup of coffe and page two of Jimiyo's tut ;D
Good Stuff!!
Thanks! 8)
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I have only read parts of jimiyo's tut. It looks pretty good. I do want to note, that I clicked on the link where he refers to another site that tells more about indexing (at top).
That is a company that sells a product that is strictly designed to do automated indexing. That is fine. Anything to speed up the process. The information (almost all of it) is only written to benefit the sale of the product. Sort of like a supplier selling you THIS product and telling you it's the best, all the while, it's the only one he has available to sell.
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David Crane I think the last names right over at www.squaredot.com (http://www.squaredot.com) has some great work on index he has been doing it for a long time.
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David Crane I think the last names right over at [url=http://www.squaredot.com]www.squaredot.com[/url] ([url]http://www.squaredot.com[/url]) has some great work on index he has been doing it for a long time.
I done know for sure, but I think that is the same guy I'm referring to below.
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Oh, that dot-tone dan guy? Never heard of him. :P
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Never heard of you Dan, you must be new or something, can you sep or draw ;D ;)
Darryl
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I just checked. That is the same guy. I read on his rates on his site for separations, storage and sending the files. He is good advertisement for me. LOL.
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I own screenprint separator. It does have value for those who regularly use indexed separations in that it automatically exports your indexed files from Photoshop so they may be printed out and/or modified using Illustrator. However, I never use the standard palette or clut (color look up table in sps). To get a decent accurate reproduction of a design selecting your colors manually is the only way to go. Small changes make a big difference! Auto programs don't work well in 4cp nor indexing unless the design is very simple.
That jimyo tut taught me the most about indexing.
In my experience I do get quite a bit of mixing due to initial ink stacks getting smushed by subsequent screens. Since I've always had to make some compromises in my sep to deal with the limited palette I often look to print order and flash order to help get a better print. No matter how long I look at print order, it always seems that I find myself adjusting the print order after test prints are made. I often find myself printing a group of light colors first, a flash and then hitting some of the darker colors after that. Darker colors usually go first, but if they are fine details that are getting swallowed up they have to move in the print order. When printing skin tones with a lot of contrast across the subject I'll often hit the light "flesh" tone and the darker "redskin" color early in the print order and not flash them so they blend much better. Even my highlight white gets moved up if it is just too intrusive at the end. Print order is big when indexing.
Since I print on a manual, I do longer runs and I desire consistent results indexing works very well for me.
185 ppi, white underbase, black, highlight white and 4 custom colors through 230 mesh (the black shows up better on the shirt than it does in this JPG)
(http://usera.ImageCave.com/kelson/pelican.jpg)
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Nobrainsd,
Good post. Nice feedback. I tried it back in the day and like many of the automated offerings, It's a good tool for some it helps speed up the process a little. It helps get people at least in the ball park and then you can improve on your process yourself as you have indicated.
Thanks
Dan
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Hey Jason nice print... I had my first sim job a few months back and had to get quite a bit of help from blue moon and others. That is what I like about this board a little poking but a lot of help.