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Artist => General Art Discussions => Topic started by: Dottonedan on October 12, 2014, 03:18:11 PM
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How do we get more artist participation here?
The first issue I feel on this subject is that it's always compared to the old TSMB artist section. On that forum, the artist section was THE PLACE to check out what was going on. On any day, you could see a verbal brawl about anything such as religion, politics and everything in-between with some occasional tutorials or art examples of the latest design.
We will never have that first part here. It may start, but will never be left to continue on like they did at the old forums. It's just not beneficial for anyone, but like a good train wreck, it drew the people in. For that reason, you have less "action" in an artist section since it's truly all/only about art.
Outside of that alone, we also have more virtual competition of (Face Book and groups in Facebook). You can easily post up links, videos, (for everyone). Printers and (the outsiders). People in the family of printers and their friends and all of your friends. That draws a different crowd and does get the artist more exposure in numbers, but may be less specific (such as us). There is still a need for an artist section on this or any screen print forum, but there will also be the competition for the artist time. They need to get it out on facebook or they are not being proactive.
The ease and user friendliness of a forum adds to the draw as well. More customers (an audience) can add to the draw of artist. Something that could showcase an individuals work would be cool, but we sort of do that with each post. How do you do that when they can just have a link to their own website? Visual aids are good. It would be nice to see previews (in a list as someone is scrolling down to see the different topics).
Maybe we could have child groups/sections that were (for each different artist) and they can post up the new stuff in their own own area.
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You know...I'd put this in the General board. Those cats don't come look at this section and their the ones that hire us clowns. What do they want to see? Heck...maybe they only care about rates...who knows?
LOLOL
Open it up. Good or bad....see what comes out of it.
I think doing better at meeting the needs of the lurkers is key. There's more people that look than post. Lets see what "our" customer base thinks.
Frankly you got an uphill battle here. Social media is easy and very effective. ROI on FB, Instagram, Pinterest, Tumblr....is off the charts.
Give them smelly printers a crack at this. They know what they want to see.
note: Only a couple of you smell....but I like your scent so it's still love. :)
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To get artist to come here like Lemorris said your going to have to open it up to all kinds of artist just not screen print art even though this is a screen print forum and let them show and tell. Right now we only see finished art printed by screen printers the only artist on this board are you Dan and Lemorris that post art from concept to finish which is very nice to see.
darryl
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lets cater to a specific group to get them to join us..
history lesson anyone :P
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Not sure this is true, but look at the number of members that are OWNERS of a company and look at how many WORK at someone elses company. Almost every single person I talk to on this board owns the company they represent. When I worked for a screen printing company I put forth less effort after hours. I think that's the case with artists generally, could be wrong though.
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Personally I think less sub-forums make for a better overall forum. It's easy to get sucked into making a subforum for every topic under the sun and then you end up with most not getting any posts on any given day and a fragmented online community. I remember reading a long time ago that the number of sub-forums should be ~ 10% of the average number of posts per day.
How does this relate to artists participation? If topics are on subforums with a broad catchment for topic coverage they will get more overall views and garner posts from people who may not ordinarily read/participate in a very narrow-topic subforum.
Think of it as having us all meet in one big room to talk, or 60+ small rooms.
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I think there are more artists on here than some people realize. I am open to posting more of my art and the progressive steps involved. For me it's not any harder to take an image I would post on my own site or on social media and also post it here. One of the special and unique characteristics of posting screen print art on the forum here is that we all understand the concepts involved in printing said artwork. Here we have a collection of like-minded artists and screen printers who all understand the process and ca offer unique specialized perspective and critique and also encouragement. I think this part of the forum can grow if we all contribute to it and encourage the artists we work with and purchase work from to post it as well. There is great benefit to seeing other artwork and learning from one another.
Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com
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My background is more in the illustration and graphic design realm than in the screen printing realm, if you're basing it on how long I have been doing either. I feel like a lot of people on here are "artists", but few of us are only artists, and often art is dictated more by budget and time constraints than pure creativity. In screen printing it is honestly hard to divorce the mass production from the art in a lot of ways, which changes a lot about how I approach a design if that makes sense. Does this make it less "art" and more something else?
I "create" the artwork for around half of my prints, and I mean from start to finish, usually based on nothing more than something like "It needs to say "xxxxx" and I want it to have xxxxx imagery" or sometimes even "go wild!". Sometimes I do simple text with something like tweaked "clipart" (pick a font, pick a central image, add some extra elements, and make it all look nice together). Sometimes it is wholly original, whether that is hand illustrated or using the pen tool etc (often this is for clothing brands or new companies, and can range from logo creation/branding to abstract ideas and imagery). Most of the time is somewhere in between. I could post process stuff here I guess for some of those types of jobs, but honestly I rarely document the process.
Generally speaking, what would qualify as something worth posting in this subforum? Does it need to be wholly hand illustrated, then penned in illustrator and colored, etc like all of the posts I see currently? Would something like using fonts, even if tweaked, negate the art? Is graphic design not art?
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I "create" the artwork for around half of my prints, and I mean from start to finish, usually based on nothing more than something like "It needs to say "xxxxx" and I want it to have xxxxx imagery" or sometimes even "go wild!". Sometimes I do simple text with something like tweaked "clipart" (pick a font, pick a central image, add some extra elements, and make it all look nice together). Sometimes it is wholly original, whether that is hand illustrated or using the pen tool etc (often this is for clothing brands or new companies, and can range from logo creation/branding to abstract ideas and imagery). Most of the time is somewhere in between. I could post process stuff here I guess for some of those types of jobs, but honestly I rarely document the process.
Generally speaking, what would qualify as something worth posting in this subforum? Does it need to be wholly hand illustrated, then penned in illustrator and colored, etc like all of the posts I see currently? Would something like using fonts, even if tweaked, negate the art? Is graphic design not art?
All of the above mentioned is what is worth posting (to someone) and that one person counts. I'm sure we all agree that anything educational is worthy. One does not need to be seen or known as "the best" or the go to guy to be able to post up steps/processes/tuts. They need not be award winners nor beginners. Everyone has something educational to share. Yes, even the non artist owners who just got by with clip art knows some shirt cuts (ha ha!) Shirt cuts...or they can share a procedure.
I think the key with all of that is not just the text info (how too's ) but also imagery and/or video.
I'll try my best to get something up but time is never on my side. Usually the case for many, so any contributions are extremely valuable.
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Boldline, I know people would find it VERY interesting to see how digital inking is done in vector. Many people don't take advantage of that or even know it exist in Illy or Corel or what you do with it. I've wanted to do something basic like that for a while now so either you can or I will. Another would be a how to on repeat patterns that seamlessly flow into full yet never ending patterns (used more so in retail and packaging).
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This may not answer HOW to get more artists here, but it is something that would make me the artists customer seek them out... I always like to know what a artists "style" is or what they personally like to design. Someone that draws butterflys all day and loves it is probably not going to take the same passion and detail in drawing construction equipment. That is just my assumption as I am nowhere a artist.
There have been at least a dozen times I have searched the forum here for things artists have designed to see their style. Most of the time I come up empty handed. Browsing what people have posted coupled with my ignorance, I would and do assume over 95% of the artists like and or are good at drawing cars and hot rods... Could be totally off, but as a outsider that is how it has always came across to me.
If that all makes no sense I apologize, I am out of my league posting on the artists section. Believe I reached my peak while I was in high school making fake id's and phony parking passes on Photoshop 5.5 :D
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Very valid point. A nice portfolio section would be good, but it's always been a task to get that feature into play. We looked into it once or twice. Should look again and see if their is something we have have put in easily enough. Thats the hard part I think. "easily enough". Could take some decent coin. Not sure. We will check into that one.
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Dan - yes I agree that some explanatory videos delving into the process of inking in illustrator would interest many. I will try to put something together. I've been meaning to do that for my own non-existent blog for a while now!
Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com
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When you guys say inking, I'm guessing you mean like the comic book art process, Jack Kirby pencils, Dick Ayers inks with a brush, a 3 guy colors...? So the lines have a brush feel?
Steve
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or....a sticky Non-Auto Art thread.
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or....a sticky Non-Auto Art thread.
Sticky non auto ?? I'm lost on that one. Not sure what you mean. Help a fella out.
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or....a sticky Non-Auto Art thread.
Sticky non auto ?? I'm lost on that one. Not sure what you mean. Help a fella out.
A sticky thread showcasing art not involving cars?
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I hear you Dan. So I'm going to ramble like I did back then.
Nothing will ever be like the old TSPMB. I don't know what it was, the old format layout maybe, or just that it had a lot of industry buzz? Remember the spinoff that Beatty, Dennis and XLNT3D made? That's where we met Lemorris and others... it was the place to be for a while 'till it was hacked.
The events that took down the old boards has left a bad impression that ripples to this day. Some people aren't ever coming back to any boards.
So what was it that made it such a gathering place for everyone? I've had fulltime gigs where the art dept was where everyone came to chill out (to the displeasure of shop owners who saw it as un-productivity and made rules to prevent it, which, naturally, lowered productivity.) I think the freedom to discuss whatever came to mind was part of it and that old thread format, where you could reply directly to replies ad infinitum, went well with that, but there was also the art critique part of it. Critique is an important exercise for all levels of experience. Then there were non-artists asking questions. Having the best artists in the industry available to answer questions and give tips was a great asset and was a great way for artists to subtly promote themselves.
The tutorial thing came later... it was the "place to be" before we even knew how to post pictures, let alone videos.
Portfolios are good, but how will that encourage participation in any specific thread? It will attract artists wanting to self-promote, but what will it do for the discussions?
What are the most popular topics on this board? "What Have You Printed Lately?" seems to be one. People like seeing prints and cool art. But like someone mentioned, it's mostly shop owners who post here... which should be incentive enough for freelance artists to post here. There's good opportunity for sharing expertise and gaining exposure. But most of the topics seem to revolve around presses and squeegees and screens... Important topics, but I don't have much input for those. I try to help with art-specific questions when I can, but honestly, I think most of the old gang are either too busy or too jaded about boards in general to even look.
Then there's Facebook. We didn't have that back then and when we went to the internets, we went to TSPMB first. Now we want to see what our actual friends and family are up to and while we're at it, check up on our own business fan pages.
So there you go. An old fashioned, stream of consciousness TSPMB artist board-style Command-Z ramble. This is the top industry board now. There's buzz. There are artists here, we just don't see a lot of opportunities for input. Asking questions like this thread are good, it got some of us going, but how to attract others? How do we make it a place for creatives to hang out? Nobody did anything at TSPMB, it just happened.
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You want to get more artist to participate. You could offer free weed, jk. You need to fire them up. Tell them art is dead. Tell them anyone can design on a computer. Tell them art adds no value. Tell them everything has been done before. Artists are strange little green trolls hiding in the dark under bridges just waiting for their opertunity to strike.
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You want to get more artist to participate. You could offer free weed, jk. You need to fire them up. Tell them art is dead. Tell them anyone can design on a computer. Tell them art adds no value. Tell them everything has been done before. Artists are strange little green trolls hiding in the dark under bridges just waiting for their opertunity to strike.
You're actually right. Sometimes, controversial topics, trolling and thread baiting are actually good ways to get real dialog going and were common at the old board.
So do it.
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I will attempt to ramble as well (shouldn't be too tough)
Command is onto something. A simple visit to the Facebook page that was created for the TSPMB refugees will show you that it mostly attracts the non-industry stuff (not a complaint, it is what it is). You may not get separation techniques, or much true critical input on your piece of art, but you'll know where the artists went for BBQ the night before, or their favorite beer.
(It's also interesting, that some there are even friends as well as "friends" with the very person who made them refugees)
Lest I seem hypoctitical, I am probably also known for "fluff stuff" on every board on which I have participated. I just also tend to facilitate the sharing of industry info as well.
I remember Lance's short-lived experiment with a hybrid Industry/Facie Spacie Forum, and I swear that I often felt that I was the only one there starting industry-related threads.
The TSPMB artist section was like the back table of the local tavern. Since then, chain bars on the virtual landscape have filled the void.
That said, here, we'll serve anything from Manhattans, to Mango Martinis and Boilermakers, to micro brews, and wings if they ever do show up! For anything stronger, doctor's notes will be required.
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Haha. All good points. Very true.
I have a feeling tho, that all it will take is us seasoned guys (now getting older) to start some good (time dedicated) art tutorials once a week and in a month or so, we will see some flowers sprouting. We need content in order to catch the artist eyes. The young'ns and the printers want to know, so we should feed them some soul food me thinks.
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Haha. All good points. Very true.
I have a feeling tho, that all it will take is us seasoned guys (now getting older) to start some good (time dedicated) art tutorials once a week and in a month or so, we will see some flowers sprouting. We need content in order to catch the artist eyes. The young'ns and the printers want to know, so we should feed them some soul food me thinks.
I think that's a good idea, Dan. Value-added user experiences. But you and I both know what will really get art discussions going. They worked then, they'll work now.
Two things:
Mac vs PC
Adobe vs Corel
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Start talking about how to run a freelance design firm and you will have everyone's ears. I did that for 8 years I am full of info on that.
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Haha. All good points. Very true.
I have a feeling tho, that all it will take is us seasoned guys (now getting older) to start some good (time dedicated) art tutorials once a week and in a month or so, we will see some flowers sprouting. We need content in order to catch the artist eyes. The young'ns and the printers want to know, so we should feed them some soul food me thinks.
I think that's a good idea, Dan. Value-added user experiences. But you and I both know what will really get art discussions going. They worked then, they'll work now.
Two things:
Mac vs PC
Adobe vs Corel
It was much broader, as I seem to remember often right vs left, and blind faith vs. atheism, leading to Evolution vs. Intelligent (or at least fairly thoughtful for the most part with some exceptions, as after all, even the most fiery fundamentalist Christian has seen pictures of the duck-billed platypus) Design ;D
Like I said before, it was "Come for the fights, stay for the art discussions"
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Start talking about how to run a freelance design firm and you will have everyone's ears. I did that for 8 years I am full of info on that.
Some say that you are certainly full of something. ;D
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Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
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Tutorials are great. Use them all the time. It'll bring lurkers...lookey loos.....not much more than that.
In looking at the "What have you printed lately" thread...maybe we just need some thread title changes.
How bought instead of "Stuff you've done already! - show it off" How bout "What have you created lately?"
Maybe "Art Pricing" can become "The Business of Art" and we can discuss marketing, SEO, bidding...etc.
Maybe we need a "Rants for Rants Sake" thread. Wanna go off? wanna prove once and for all that PC users are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better?? That's your place.
Not a place to get nasty mind you, but maybe we can peel this industry lid up just a tad and get back to being people a little bit.....just sayin.
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Tutorials are great. Use them all the time. It'll bring lurkers...lookey loos.....not much more than that.
In looking at the "What have you printed lately" thread...maybe we just need some thread title changes.
How bought instead of "Stuff you've done already! - show it off" How bout "What have you created lately?"
Maybe "Art Pricing" can become "The Business of Art" and we can discuss marketing, SEO, bidding...etc.
Maybe we need a "Rants for Rants Sake" thread. Wanna go off? wanna prove once and for all that PC users are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better?? That's your place.
Not a place to get nasty mind you, but maybe we can peel this industry lid up just a tad and get back to being people a little bit.....just sayin.
Again, so true and more great ideas. Good discussion. We have tried the "Build it and they will come" idea and it's not worked thus far and we all know there are plenty of artist out there going somewhere. We will always have Facebook, but thats still yet another vehicle for artist to do what they do....but here would be more focused on hanging with of like minded or at least (semi) like minded peeps. LOL.
The thing you can't do as easily in Facebook is to include Vids and graphics (that stay listed). They stay on your timeline, but not in front of people longer like you might have here. I've said it before, A post can be seen by literally thousands of people down the road over the years. When someone post something really good/education/hot topic it can be bookmarked, searched (not great, but it can) and then brought back up "bumped" for regurgitation. You can't get that on facebook.
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True but man...FB gives you sales. I kill it over there. There's a billion people...literally a billion people on that thing! LOL
All that being said forums still play a major role. There's a certain amount of ummm... intimacy you get here. I don't mean that in a dirty way....(unless you like it. "wink") :) ) I mean that in a slower pace more focused sense. FB is kinda like "Change my pitch up...smack my ___ch up" where forums are more like "I don't see nothin wrong...with a little bump and grind." Right?
anyway, the focus of the forum shouldn't be to compete with social media...you'll lose. It's more to compliment. Maybe the pitch is "For a more focused learning and community based experience, visit our forum." dig?
Note: My cat is sitting on my digital tablet and insisting I scratch her head...hold on...brb....
.... K
She's silly
anyway....
Forums can also answer a question answer format on a focused topic much eaiser. Example: Here's a piece DTD has posted. For the next 3 days you can ask detailed no strings questions. DTD will shoot you straight. Grab a beer and join us. Note: Silly is welcomed.
You know...like I said....lift the lid a little....let some air escape. It'll be nice.
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Haha. All good points. Very true.
I have a feeling tho, that all it will take is us seasoned guys (now getting older) to start some good (time dedicated) art tutorials once a week and in a month or so, we will see some flowers sprouting. We need content in order to catch the artist eyes. The young'ns and the printers want to know, so we should feed them some soul food me thinks.
I think that's a good idea, Dan. Value-added user experiences. But you and I both know what will really get art discussions going. They worked then, they'll work now.
Two things:
Mac vs PC
Adobe vs Corel
It was much broader, as I seem to remember often right vs left, and blind faith vs. atheism, leading to Evolution vs. Intelligent (or at least fairly thoughtful for the most part with some exceptions, as after all, even the most fiery fundamentalist Christian has seen pictures of the duck-billed platypus) Design ;D
Like I said before, it was "Come for the fights, stay for the art discussions"
Man those were fun times. Anyone remember that Pushrod clown? Some of the best times arguing with that dude about all of the above while taking a break from a long project........lol
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You're very right. One of the things that drew me (no pun) was to be able to escape at the times. Loved breaking away from a project job for a moment and getting on the forum. Still do.
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...and more cowbell.
we need more cowbell.
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Can never get enough of the cowbell. Always More!
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Cowbell, brings to mind Chistopher Walken, who brings to my mind, that Bird's the word
http://www.brandonbird.com/brandonbird_lazy_sunday_afternoon.jpg (http://www.brandonbird.com/brandonbird_lazy_sunday_afternoon.jpg)
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Alright then, let's get this art page some attention! I'll start, ahem...
"Ebola, Obama's gift to America!" LOL
Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com
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OK in a serious note, maybe we need to rework some of the topics in the art section. For example have a section for tutorials, a section for photoshop based work, another for us vectoids, etc,
Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com
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Alright then, let's get this art page some attention! I'll start, ahem...
"Ebola, Obama's gift to America!" LOL
Mat Woodworth
[url=http://www.boldlinedesign.com]www.boldlinedesign.com[/url] ([url]http://www.boldlinedesign.com[/url])
There's already a forum for that here actually.
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Thanks Stu, I was joking but I also find it a little odd people want to discuss politics on a screen print forum.
Mat Woodworth
www.boldlinedesign.com
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Mat, what you'll find with the forums that get it right, is that they become more than just a "screen print forum". What they become is a hangout, like the back room in a local tavern, full of friends and neighbors, who happen to be in the same industry.
Industry talk is the main topic of conversation, but as folks feel that they are among friends, who better to talk about the other things as well?
We understand this, and make the concession, but try to keep the stuff that can get hairy separate.
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A lot of people complained at TSPMB when we'd go off on politics and religion... passionate debates. The rule of the Artist Forum there was to "Discuss, brood, read poetry, all the things you normally do."
So we did. Like Frog sez, we talked about lots of things that had nothing to do with printing because we were pals hanging out and shooting the sh*t.
It was fun. Most of us enjoyed it. Some people were offended and that's when you know you've got a good thing. Being offended is good, it means you have an opinion and nobody has forced the world to think like you do.
We have a free speech zone here for people who want to discuss politics. It matters to some of us because politics effects business and money and that's what we're all really about, no matter what our actual job is. Some find it interesting, like I do. Some find talking about sports interesting, and I couldn't care less about that. But people talk about all these things at work and at the bar after work.... and on message boards.
But that shouldn't be the thing that keeps people coming back. That's just the result of a good group of people who feel comfortable with each other, not the cause.
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What the free form platform taught me was that at least half of my colleagues were from areas not nearly as enlightened as where I am, so it explained why they hadn't yet reached my higher level of consciousness and more correct view of the world. ;D LOL!
It helped teach me patience and tolerance because somehow, 99% of the time, folks didn't let that sometimes huge divide interfere with our camaraderie. I found(find) it quite gratifying and enlightening, that most of these folks see the bigger picture, and appreciate that experience.
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You need a virtual coffee bean dispenser and free medical (cough) weed to attract artists.
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I don't there ever really is a magic formula or definitive answer on this.
My experience with lack of posting is usually a time. I'm always looking for new jobs, working projects, and the usual social media up-keep. I've recently shifted gears work wise to start ramping up my teaching online. I honestly get to busy and just plain burnt-out before I even get to log into the forum.
At risk of sounding like a guilt trip/sob story but, I know I would be able to post more teaching content if I could justify the time financially but I don't make enough to have the freedom to do so.
I think incentive is a great way to really ramp up content in the artist area by maybe highlighting the effective post with a sticky, newsletter feature or something advertising the hard work. Because it is worthy that someone takes the time to offer up the knowledge and experience and is that more a rewarding experience in it being effective and leading to exposure.
I find that in other communities that I'm involved in, the natural reward for posting your process is the lime-light and possible job exposure. But most of this goes without saying :P
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Popular site for artist http://www.conceptart.org/forums/ (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/), that is the forum section. Delete /forums in the url and you can see their *landing page. Maybe you can get some ideas. Another thought, how does the forums rank on *searches that have anything to do with art, artists ect.? A little advertising also never hurts on the more popular art sites, maybe a trade out thing might work to avoid fees. If FB is the thing, make a fan page that directs to here as well as share some designs from any threads to there. BTW when was the last time you updated the look of the board? Artists are visual people ;). Just a few ideas, take them or leave them
* a landing page directed to the art thread/section may be of help increasing click throughs from search engines.
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Can never get enough of the cowbell. Always More!
then theres this
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Classic