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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: SteveS on October 21, 2014, 07:21:11 PM
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So just how difficult is getting the old nasty rubber off an aluminum pallet? I have 10 each 16"x22" pallets that desperately need new rubber. Anyone care to share any tips or insights on how best to accomplish this task? I'm finding it hard to swallow buying brand new pallets for $145-$160.
I saw an old classified ad where Action wanted to trade printed shirts for some new pallets. I'd jump all over that deal if they still wanted to do that.
Otherwise, I think I just need to try and do it myself.
Anyone?
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It's really not tough at all, depending on the adhesive. Most of the pallets I've resurfaced have had the green 3M high-temp adhesive, and with a bit of heat (sometimes not even required), the rubber will usually just pull right off. Once you've gotten the rubber off, let any adhesive remover soak into the glue for a few minutes and it will wipe right off. I'm in the midst of resurfacing 30-40 pallets and used ICC on press wash for the majority of the adhesive removing and cleaning, and they look like new.
In the meantime, order either adhesive backed or standard rubber from a supplier. I get mine through Action, and usually go with the standard rubber to save some money although I'd imagine the adhesive backed makes the final step much easier. If you go the standard route, order a quart or two of the high temp adhesive when you order the rubber. Clean the pallets and rubber well (I use methyl ethyl ketone) before applying the glue to the pallet and apply to the back of the rubber at the same time. Let them sit for a minute or so (being mindful that this stuff dries quick) and then hold the pallet vertical at the end of the rubber and slam it down so the glue meets the glue. Put some weight on the back and let it sit for a bit before cutting around the pallet.
Tonypep recently mentioned sanding the edges smooth afterward which is a great tip and helps eliminate pressure marks on your garments.
Also, after typing all this I remembered that action has downloadable instructions for application on their website, which you can find here:
http://www.actionengineering.com/dsn/wwwactionengineeringcom/Content/Soft%20Top%20Instructions.pdf (http://www.actionengineering.com/dsn/wwwactionengineeringcom/Content/Soft%20Top%20Instructions.pdf)
On a side note, I recently ran into 6 pallets that used a tan adhesive and that stuff does not want to come off the pallet. It was tough enough to get the rubber off (ended up requiring lots of heat), but I'm still stumped on how to get the glue removed. So if anyone has any tips on that, please feel free to chime in.
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What is a good adhesive remover and where would I find it? These pallets on this Sportsman were not cared for very well and I have residual pallet tape that is being stubborn and not easily removed.
Same for the Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Where can I find that stuff?
Sorry to sound so ignorant but I'm no Walter White chemist for a far stretch. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
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Any real paint store will have what you are looking for.
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MEK is in most of our hardware stores
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Action has the self adhesive material. More expensive of course but definitely worth it.
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I'm just nervous about starting this process and finding out after I've completely ruined the rubber that it's going to be much more of a process than I planned on and ultimately having the press taken out of service while I figure out what to do. I can handle a day without the press but if for some reason that old rubber doesn't cooperate and takes me 2 or 3 days to get all ten cleaned and prepped, I'll have to answer to my production scheduler......my wife! I'm so not wanting to rattle that cage.
Let me ask this.....if we can assume that these are original M&R pallets from 2006 manufacture, what are the odds this rubber will pretty easily come off? They were used with radiant panel flashes so there is no telling how many times they have been overheated?
Anyone want to warrant a no recourse reply?
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I have an 05 m&R press it comes off fine, for the glue once you open the can its done ,I have done it twice and sealed the can well but by the time I needed to do again the glue was not usable .
I sanded the edges especially the back corners of mine with a belt sander it helps with taking shirts off as well.
Mak VERY SURE there is no contaminate on the platen or in the glue before you lay the rubber down so that the surface is absolutely flat.
For me I buy the glue at Fastenal and the rubber at a local rubber supplier.
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Wait what? Press out of service because of platens? Never. Get the replacement self adhesive rubber. Over heat the pallets and peel; paint scraper can help (gloves pls). Clean leftover adhesive with non grease solvent as needed. Re-apply and sit overnight (weighted). Trim in the morning. Done. Its how its been done for decades.
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Is the MEK chemical that you guys refer to the adhesive remover to clean the aluminum or is it something else?
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Buy one extra pallet and rotate in and out. Never hurts to have an extra one for many reasons.
Pierrre
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Is the MEK chemical that you guys refer to the adhesive remover to clean the aluminum or is it something else?
MEK is used only for final cleaning of the pallets, immediately before the new adhesive is applied. For old adhesive remover, you can use anything like Goo-Gone, Goof-Off, Franmar Icky Sticky Unstuck, or most on press color swap chemicals will work as well. I found ICC 926 to work better than the hardware store stuff I tried, and can be purchased at any screen print supply that carries ICC chemicals.
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If you have metal pallets
scrape up the old rubber with a paint scraper, a heat gun or your flash will help soften the adhesive.
Once the rubber is off forget the MEK, use lacquer thinner from Lowes orw wallyworld
http://www.lowes.com/pd_206496-34228-CR.LT40.M.01_0__?productId=4744981&Ntt=lacquer+thinner&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dlacquer%2Bthinner&facetInfo= (http://www.lowes.com/pd_206496-34228-CR.LT40.M.01_0__?productId=4744981&Ntt=lacquer+thinner&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dlacquer%2Bthinner&facetInfo=)
once the pallets are clean and you have new rubber use CONTACT CEMENT
http://www.lowes.com/pd_142569-68-00272_0__?productId=3819177&Ntt=contact+cement&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dcontact%2Bcement&facetInfo= (http://www.lowes.com/pd_142569-68-00272_0__?productId=3819177&Ntt=contact+cement&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dcontact%2Bcement&facetInfo=)
same stuff but non-flammable and low VOC
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8 (http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=48&SubcatID=8)
follow the instructions on the can it works fine and holds like iron.
either type will work well but the red can has more grab but is a little harder to apply.
Ok how to bring it all together, see this video on applying formica counter top , the gig is exactly the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trDIjqCP6HY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trDIjqCP6HY)
it works EXACTLY the same for the rubber BUT you will need more dowels or similar as the rubber will sag and touch the pallet if you use just 3 or 4 dowels. Once the rubber hits the pallet (so to speak) it is STUCK so support it well while you position it. You migfht even think about using a teflon sheet from your heat press instead of the dowels and slide the sheet out little at a time as you stick down the rubber from one end to the other.
This is a pretty easy process actually you just have to remember once the coated rubber touches the coated pallet it is going to stay where you put it there is no opportunity to reposition that is why you need the dowels or seperator sheet of teflon.
Hope this helps...........
mooseman
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I often wondered if contact cement would work
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I often wondered if contact cement would work
Although, I too have used regular contact cement the one time I added rubber tops, I have to think that the high temp stuff holds up better to flashing.
Moose, you have no issues with the bond weakening?
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Is contact cement the tan stuff that acts like.. well.. cement on pallets and is nearly impossible to get off?
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I often wondered if contact cement would work
Although, I too have used regular contact cement the one time I added rubber tops, I have to think that the high temp stuff holds up better to flashing.
Moose, you have no issues with the bond weakening?
Actually Frog no except for the pallet i burned to a crisp ;).
It actually holds quite well with no lifting provided you get the two surfaces sufficently coated. If one side or the other is weak in coating you might have some issues otherwise it holds even on a hot pallet.
BTW my pallets are heavy steel (Vastex manual press) and they do tend to get HOT and hold the heat, I have never had a problem even on sone 3/4 inch cabinet ply pallets I made with the same process.
mooseman
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Hi everyone. I'm at SGIA and unable to respond adequately now. However - I've always believed in the Newtonian principle...pay attention to what smart people have to say. That is Tony knows best. I hope to see some of you here and will do my best to follow up on this thread when I return.
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Is contact cement the tan stuff that acts like.. well.. cement on pallets and is nearly impossible to get off?
most likely. I use contact cement on the ones I replace and of the dozen or so I've done I've never had one let go that I used the contact cement on. I've seen factory pallets fail after only a few years, and about 5 of our sleeve pallets have let go at the ends but out of our 24 adult/youth pallets I've not seen any of them let go on the RPM. I think they use the 3M version of contact cement and the stuff I've used is straight off the shelf at Lowes.
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Here's a second vote for contact cement. I used the 3M super fancy stuff once and ended up replacing the rubber that peeled off
with CC and never had another issue.
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In CA and many other states MEK is no longer available in hardware stores and paint stores. That's because a lower VOC alternative is now available for the types of uses MEK is properly used for like as an adhesive thinner when installing linoleum tiles. But that doesn't mean that MEK is banned, which is what you will hear from many retail establishments. MEK is properly used in other industries where a lower VOC alternative isn't available. On the west coast TAP Plastics has many store locations and will ship. I just found a local supplier of resin and glass for the boat building industry (for me Fiberlay). They stock MEK. The low VOC alternative doesn't clean stuff well and won't bond PVC boats either! Get the real thing.
They are also selling a low VOC contact cement here in CA at Home Depot. Worthless.
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Should I expect the rubber to tear when I start pulling it off after heating it good with the flash or will it slowly come off in one piece?
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Removing the rubber depends on either breaking the bond of the adhesive used or most likely shearing the adhesive leaving a mess of it on the rubber and on the pallet that you will nedd to address after the rubber is off.
There is no clear answer, get started on a corner, roll it back work on it with a scrapet or sharp edge , use some lacquer thinner to help break the bond and just keep working on it. I would not expect the rubber to tear but so what if it does...just pick another corner or edge and continiue as before.
You might even try a heat gun as any heat you apply to just about any, not all but many of the flexible adhesives, will weaken the bond.
It is a PITA and a mess but more than possible.
mooseman
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Well, we finally resurfaced the pallets. Under the quartz flash they went until they got real hot and sure enough, after getting a blade under a corner and starting to peel, the rubber started to come off. Some rubber tore and some rubber split but it all came off with fair ease. After it came off, we made a small pan of mineral spirits about an inch deep and soaked the pallets face down for about 15-20 minutes each and the excess old adhesive wiped right off.
We then went the Action Engineering route and used the peel and stick rubber. We followed those instructions and the rubber went right on without a hitch. We cut the excess overhang with a box cutter blade on top of cardboard and then used a belt sander to sand the edges flush perpendicular to the pallet edges and then put a very slight 45 degree bevel on the top rubber with a 120 grit belt.
Viola! Brand new pallets. They sure make a difference.
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but I messed up my first pallet yesterday and after peeling it up I am seeing this (see photo). Doesn't look like any kind of contact cement I've seen before, and much more like some kind of tape. Any thoughts on removal?
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That's definitely old adhesive that has wilted under the heated environment. I would get the old rubber off and do what I suggested and soak the pallet face down in mineral spirits for about a half hour and it should all come off. Even if it's some kind of tape residue, the mineral spirits ought to soften it all up.
We get our mineral spirits and denatured alcohol from Home Depot in quarts. It's in the paint section.
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I've had good success with kerosene to remove over cooked transfer paper from rubber tops. I don't know if it will work on the stuff you've pictured, but if you happen to have any lying around it might be worth a try.
Good luck!
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The rubber can be attached with the 3M glue or they have a self adheasive backing. Have had a lot of luck using WD40 and a utility knife blade and literally cut the adheasive off. Buy the new rubber with the self adheasive backing so you don't have to mess with the glue.
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I've had good success with kerosene to remove over cooked transfer paper from rubber tops. I don't know if it will work on the stuff you've pictured, but if you happen to have any lying around it might be worth a try.
Good luck!
r
Get the one with the pre-applied adhesive, its soooo worth the minimal extra cost.
Also, keep a couple of extras on hand. I burned up two in a three-month period, so last time I ordered I got a couple of extra to have on hand. That was two years ago, and haven't done it since. Paging Mr .Murphy!
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mineral spirits didnt touch it...been around 45 minutes now. It isn't tape residue, its like actual tape, so while the adhesive on the top of the tape is now gone, the adhesive actually binding the tape to the aluminum isn't budging. about to try a heat gun and razor. I was hoping my rapid remover would work like it did with pallet tape residue, but this stuff is some kind of plastic so it cant get through it to the adhesive...annoying.
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I've used Jasco on pallets in the past that nothing else would touch.
In looking up their info I just found that their former plant in Mountain View is now a Super Fund site.
Ugh.
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For the time you jerk around trying to get the adhesive off and drop $40 bucks on the new rubber you might as well just drop the $150 for a new pallet. Save that one to make something else. Just saying.
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I pretty much agree honestly...
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M&R will re-cover them. Not sure what the cost is.
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Quick update. Heat Gun with razor scraper worked like a champ. Followed that with rapid remover for the remaining adhesive and good to go for new rubber. Mike and Sam at Under Pressure had an extra sheet of the Action Rubber they let me have (which I will be replacing when the ones I ordered from Action arrive). Can't thank them enough for helping out in the crunch.
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Sure glad I have never cooked a platen!!!!!!!! What a doofus.
::)
Except for the one that had FLAMES halfway to the ceiling right through the center mesh of a burned screen frame and smoke so thick the embroidery room stank for 3 days.
'Cept for THAT one....