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Embroidery => General Embroidery => Topic started by: Shanarchy on December 14, 2014, 12:59:25 PM
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Anyone have any experience with Amaya's (2005-2007 era)?
I am seeing a couple of affordable ones out there. I like the idea of getting a single head now, and adding another used one next year if embroidery becomes a mover for us. However, I never really hear anyone talk about them. Just Tajima, Barudan, and SWF.
Speaking of Tajima, anyone have any experience with a Tajima Neo (2003 era)? This is also a single head. Can these be networked (?) like the Amaya's? Not sure if that's what it's actually called, but add a second and it will act like a 2 head, etc.
Thanks!
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Look at it this way, not really many factories full of Amaya's. If your married to buying a single head id buy the flavor that you intend to grow with. One thing we dislike is having 2 brands of machines in our shop, 2 different control panels to train, 2 different hooping systems, etc. I would stick with Barudan or Tajima if your intending to get serious about embroidery in the future. SWF is decent to start with as well, but certainly something less compared to the other 2.
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We are doing overflow work for a local embroidery shop that has Happy brand machines. They had a Tajima Neo that they could never get to run properly and finally sold it. Owner said he bought it to save a few bucks. We are running Barudan ourselves, very good machine.
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I would stick with Tajima, Barudan or SWF. Also, because you are looking into a single head, I would look into Toyota 9000 or 9100. Those are discontinued, but they are the same as Tajima Neo. Tajima techs should be able to fix them.
I have Tajima Neo2 (2009) and Toyota ESP9000 (2006), both have been workhorses with minimal issues (my fault on Tajima).
I have bought used Toyota 2 years ago and I could not be happier with it. Got lucky and bought a lightly used one (Almost like a brand new)
As far as the Amaya. I have heard that they had issues with tensions and their automatic tensioning system. Never worked with one.
2003 Tajima can not be networked. I think those will have floppy, not the USB.
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I've never heard anything bad about them. I know a company in town that has 2 and they love them. My tech is always pushing them.
I think what Brandt says is true... but if you aren't looking to be a 100+ head shop then you can't really compare what works for them. If you are looking to stay under say 10 heads for the foreseeable future then it might be worth looking at.
No offense to Brandt's point, but in that same vane you should also be saying "don't buy a single head, do you see any large shops running single heads? You should at least buy a 8 or 12 head, most big shops run 12-20 heads."
Their business model just doesn't apply to the little guy is the way I look at it.
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Has a lot to do with what you are going to try to sell. If you are trying to sell bulk runs, Single heads make zero sense. If you are going ot do 1 off items then a gang of single heads will make a lot of sense. There are markets for both of course.
Ive had 1, 2, 4's and now 6's, and what I can certainly promise you is that 1 single head machine you will struggle to pay for the person to run it and the cost of the machine/software/etc and have much of anything left for yourself as "profit" unless you are the owner operator of that machine (no employee to pay to run it). We found that out quick. If you have a hat that takes 15 minutes to run, and your needing to do say 100 of them. Start doing that math on a single head..... Then consider it on a 4 or 6 head.
I think there is a HUGE misconception about sew times for people that are just getting into the game. Some believe they are going to put out a ton of work per day on a single head and while there might be some prefect exceptions to that with low stitch count files the truth of it is at least in our shop is most files have a 10-20min run time for hats/small flat work. Backs could be on a machine for hours. So consider all that when you are staring at a 100pc order and 1 single head.
I think when I bought our single head it was like 12k, 2 head was only 18k. I was stupid and let the numbers scare me at the time.
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i do like how the Amayas can network...if you can load the same design across all of them or a section of them with a mouse click, then it almost becomes faster than a 6 head because the others sew when one goes down...
I see the advantage. I think you are still better off with a 4 or 6 head paired with a single head machine.
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i do like how the Amayas can network...if you can load the same design across all of them or a section of them with a mouse click, then it almost becomes faster than a 6 head because the others sew when one goes down...
I see the advantage. I think you are still better off with a 4 or 6 head paired with a single head machine.
Exactly.
For us, we don't have the space or really the volume to justify. We also run a good bit of smaller run stuff.
I can fit in more single heads than I can multiheads.
Plus the argument about 6 single heads will run faster than a single 6 head. Yes it cost more, but you can grow into it as you need as well.
BTW, some people need to tell these guys they are doing it wrong.
(http://www.melco.com/sites/default/files/xts_factory_1.jpg)
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i do like how the Amayas can network...if you can load the same design across all of them or a section of them with a mouse click, then it almost becomes faster than a 6 head because the others sew when one goes down...
I see the advantage. I think you are still better off with a 4 or 6 head paired with a single head machine.
Exactly.
For us, we don't have the space or really the volume to justify. We also run a good bit of smaller run stuff.
I can fit in more single heads than I can multiheads.
Plus the argument about 6 single heads will run faster than a single 6 head. Yes it cost more, but you can grow into it as you need as well.
BTW, some people need to tell these guys they are doing it wrong.
([url]http://www.melco.com/sites/default/files/xts_factory_1.jpg[/url])
Like I previously said, not MANY factories full of them, didn't say their weren't any or that they were doing it wrong. I said you don't see many, that statement is true. I also bet that factory is making a ton of 1 item orders. Which would make sense in that respect doing single heads, again it all comes down to what you want to sell/produce. We can make higher margins doing one off stuff, or we can make lower margin but huge orders doing bulk. My shop happens to do both, our SWF's make our 1 off stuff and our Barudans run our bulk items. We gave away our single head as it was just in the way in our scenario. So first before you start thinking about machines it may be smarter to consider what type of work you'd rather do and what type of money you can expect to make doing that, then match that with the machines that make the most sense.
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Funny thing is we are going backwards to what everyone is talking about. We started big with 12 heads now we bought a single head machine a while back and the damn thing is invaluable. We no longer tie up the big machines with small runs or sampling. My point is you really can't go wrong buying a single head now or in the future it should be a useful machine for you.
Also every time I talk with our Barudan rep he strongly pushes the purchase of multiple single heads that can be daisy chained to either run one big run or multiple jobs at a time. He says a lot of big shops are going that format for those reasons.
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Our Baurdan rep just told me on our install they can't build 4 heads fast enough and 6 heads are not far behind them. Guess its all in who you talk to.
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that factory is probably something like 31 bags where they do a chit-ton of personalization. Notice there is 1 table for 2 machines..not one table per 12 or 15 machines.
It's a smart thing, no doubt, but I would rather run a 6 plus a 1 or 2 and go with it.
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that factory is probably something like 31 bags where they do a chit-ton of personalization. Notice there is 1 table for 2 machines..not one table per 12 or 15 machines.
It's a smart thing, no doubt, but I would rather run a 6 plus a 1 or 2 and go with it.
Completely different business model than most here, so id agree with you for the context of MOST shops here. They want to do some volume, not 1 off stuff.
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That was random google image search. I'm sure they aren't alone.
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that factory is probably something like 31 bags where they do a chit-ton of personalization. Notice there is 1 table for 2 machines..not one table per 12 or 15 machines.
It's a smart thing, no doubt, but I would rather run a 6 plus a 1 or 2 and go with it.
I agree and your going to love your new Barudan. For us we love having a mix of machines with various head counts. In the next year or 2 we intend to boot our renter and create a purpose built embroidery room, likely build it to fit 40-60 heads. Our purchases at that point will probably be a couple 8 heads, and maybe something real big like a 12 or 15 head or 2. We will also begin selling and replacing our SWFs with Barudans.
That was random google image search. I'm sure they aren't alone.
I am sure they aren't alone and ive yet to suggest otherwise, but that doesn't change or make my statement false. It seems like you are trying to start an argument with words I didn't use. Again the word used was many.... and that is in context comparison to factories full of Barudan, Tajima, SWF, Happy and so on. I bet if you consider factories say at least 50+ heads, I would bet not even 1% of those shops are all Amayas and where I come from that's not many. I wouldn't be shocked if you drop the head count even a lot lower that statement remains true.
BTW did you count the Amyas XT's in that image, count only what you can fully be sure is Amaya. Its not near as impressive once you count it, it's a big ole room and that's impressive but count the machines. More food for thought is did you count the ones running?
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I'm not arguing anything.
I'm suggesting that comparing a factory with 50+ heads is like comparing a place like TeeSpring and saying "do you see them buying 10 color sportsman?" No one should buy a 10 color sportsman, because no massive factories use them. They clearly aren't fit for anyone no matter what size shop they have.
Sometimes just because a large factory uses X machinery doesn't mean that Y machinery isn't any good or even better yet a PERFECT fit for a smaller outfit.
It is entirely possible that a Amaya would run circles around a single head Barudan. So for the shop that is looking for just a handful of single heads it may in fact be the better choice.
You are giving recommendations based on your opinion of where he should be going with his business, not based off of the machine itself.
Topic is "Opinions on the Amaya XT" not "What would you buy if it was your shop." or anything of the sort.
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I'm not arguing anything.
I'm suggesting that comparing a factory with 50+ heads is like comparing a place like TeeSpring and saying "do you see them buying 10 color sportsman?" No one should buy a 10 color sportsman, because no massive factories use them. They clearly aren't fit for anyone no matter what size shop they have.
Sometimes just because a large factory uses X machinery doesn't mean that Y machinery isn't any good or even better yet a PERFECT fit for a smaller outfit.
It is entirely possible that a Amaya would run circles around a single head Barudan. So for the shop that is looking for just a handful of single heads it may in fact be the better choice.
You are giving recommendations based on your opinion of where he should be going with his business, not based off of the machine itself.
Topic is "Opinions on the Amaya XT" not "What would you buy if it was your shop." or anything of the sort.
The original post covers other brands as well and hints at a concern that you don't hear the Amayas mentioned much.
There are even factories full of Diamond Backs and Sportsmans actually, I seen a order for 40 Diamondbacks while at M&R for 1 shop. But I understand what you were trying to say in your example and I think you know exactly what I am trying to say in my post's but you'd rather argue about it it seems like to me. I also never said they aren't fit machines as you elude to, I said you dont see many using them. Which is a true statement and that's my basic opinion of them, is not a lot of people that take embroidery super serious are using them. Yes there are some even though your trying to suggest ive said that there aren't. You don't see a lot of guys doing actual work with trucks using Honda Ridgeline's, even though I am sure they are just fine trucks for transportation. People use Ford, Chevy, and Dodges generally.
Buy whatever you want, I think with the right mix of work they are fine machines. I covered some of what I believe as misconceptions with newbies to the embroidery world about sew times and what you can actually produce with a single head which IMO is as important or MORE important than brand. I have seen a lot of shops buy a single head and wish they had bought more heads especially when you consider the smaller jump in price as you add heads.
Sorry for pointing out some things I consider important lessons learned along the way that someone may or may not have considered.
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LOL... I'm not trying to argue anything... except for the fact that I'm not trying to argue (ironically).
I think you spend so much time fighting and trolling online that you can't recognized the difference.
All I ever said was that major factories aren't always the proper model for someone that isn't looking to outfit a major factory. I also don't think that because major factories DON'T use Amaya's mean that they are any less of a valid machine. I don't know that they are, but I know that you can't base the abilities of a machine solely because of how major factories don't use it.
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Where is the popcorn??
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You may be right or you may be wrong Brandt but inside connections says single head machines is Barudans largest seller in the US market. Companies like LL Bean and Lands End mostly embroider monogramming, having a series of single heads allows this to be more practical. Sure a single head cost more but when you have the buying power of a huge company and are buying dozens or more of single heads you can easily negotiate good pricing.
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the monogramming and customization market is really big right now with those companies and places like 31 bags (or whatever it's called). For them single heads are perfect...for us, not so much. I would rather run a 4 & 2 or a 6 & 1. It's more practical.
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LOL... I'm not trying to argue anything... except for the fact that I'm not trying to argue (ironically).
I think you spend so much time fighting and trolling online that you can't recognized the difference.
All I ever said was that major factories aren't always the proper model for someone that isn't looking to outfit a major factory. I also don't think that because major factories DON'T use Amaya's mean that they are any less of a valid machine. I don't know that they are, but I know that you can't base the abilities of a machine solely because of how major factories don't use it.
Interesting, I certainly didn't troll or start this drama. You attempted to belittle me with your stupid factory picture and comment. Apparently its OK for you to make a comment but no return fire is allowed as its trolling? BTW did you total the machines in the picture? Just trying to see what you classify as a "factory".
Also did I say that was the ONLY way to consider a machines ability (factories full of them or not)? Certainly didn't as your eluding to now. I think its something to consider as to why there is not many, when something like that happens is for good reason generally. But apparently not worth discussing or bringing up.
You may be right or you may be wrong Brandt but inside connections says single head machines is Barudans largest seller in the US market. Companies like LL Bean and Lands End mostly embroider monogramming, having a series of single heads allows this to be more practical. Sure a single head cost more but when you have the buying power of a huge company and are buying dozens or more of single heads you can easily negotiate good pricing.
May or may not be true, only repeating what my guys told me when here. They they can't build 4 heads fast enough and 6's aren't far behind. He mentioned huge surges in those size machines. In fact they were out of 4 heads BOTH times I tried to purchase machines from them so that seems to support it as well.
the monogramming and customization market is really big right now with those companies and places like 31 bags (or whatever it's called). For them single heads are perfect...for us, not so much. I would rather run a 4 & 2 or a 6 & 1. It's more practical.
Definitely models where it makes a lot of sense.
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they are out of 6's right now...I had to reserve one on the next boat.
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they are out of 6's right now...I had to reserve one on the next boat.
I got the last 6 when I got my first one, even had to call and reserve it with a CC so it would be there while paper work was being done. There were 2 available when I got my 2nd 6. They sell em quick.
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They do not produce the multi heads on spec as much as the singles.
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You want a cheap shot at you to justify all of this? Here it is...
Ready?
It's not all about you Brandt... don't read so far into things... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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You want a cheap shot at you to justify all of this? Here it is...
Ready?
It's not all about you Brandt... don't read so far into things... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I don't believe you.
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You want a cheap shot at you to justify all of this? Here it is...
Ready?
It's not all about you Brandt... don't read so far into things... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I don't believe you.
At least we can agree on something.
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A little late replying to my own thread, the holiday prepping got a little crazy. I hope everyone enjoyed theirs.
First, thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I find most interesting the time noted to embroider something. So would you all say the average embroidery job (hat, left chest) would take 15 minutes? Also, what do people find their average/normal job piece size to be? If a dozen pieces took 15 minutes/piece, that would take 3 hours on a single head machine. Does that seem right? Would a hat and polo/left chest both take the same time? Or would a polo be typically quicker?
It definitely seems like Tajima and Barudan are the top dogs, and no one that has used one seems to ever have anything bad to say about them.
There is a one year old, semi-local Barudan Elite XLII (single head) for sale. It comes with the hoops and Wilcom lettering software. Asking price is $12K.
For the same price I can buy two (used) Amaya XT's with their OS software.
I'm not doubting the Barudan is better. But would two I be better off with 2 heads of Amaya or 1 head of Barudan? Or are the Amaya's just really bad machines?
It seems like a 4 head Tajima or Barudan, which would be preferred, is out of my price reach.
Thoughts?
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Depends on what your doing. Places like 31, Lands End, LL Bean are filled with singles. But if it's your first machine I'd by a 6 head. The cost of the two extra heads is minimal. I would stick with Tajima and Barudan at nothing less the resale is better
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Been a while since I operated a machine... but I'd say 15 mins is a bit long. Probably closer to 10-12 mins for average LC job.
Again, I haven't run a machine in a while or even looked at the numbers much.
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Sew time is going to drastically vary, we have designs that will run in 2 minutes. We have some that are 20+ minute runs. Good average is probably around 12 minutes. If your trying to determine what type of profit per day you can make id base it on 15 minute runs to account for possible bobbin change, thread break, needle breaks and so on that may happen. If they don't you are ahead of the game. Do the maths, should be easy to see where you want to be.
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What do you find your typical job quantity to be? Although I'm sure this varies from shop to shop.
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That is gonna COMPLETELY vary based on your clientele.
We've done 200+ pcs and we do one offs. We have a pretty steady client that drops off coveralls fairly regularly and they are usually about 3-5 pcs. Then we have people that order 24 hats at a time.
So you average person getting some "uniform" shirts or polos for himself will probably be 2-5 (usually nice markup as they pick a decent polo... we just tell them the price in the catalog is the price with a basic logo LC).
It really depends on your clientele and only you will know what they might be ordering.
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What do you find your typical job quantity to be? Although I'm sure this varies from shop to shop.
I would say as a average we are in the 30-48pc range for hats and LC style stuff. Jackets with large backs and such normally much smaller orders, but also have HUGE time in them, read hours for 1 item. We have a 1000pc hat order in the building right now with front and rear embroidery, so it has to be sewn twice. But we also do a ton of 12pc hat orders.
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First, thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I find most interesting the time noted to embroider something. So would you all say the average embroidery job (hat, left chest) would take 15 minutes?
A general rule that we use is : a single head running at 750 st/per minute will do 37,500 st per hour. The faster you run your machine, the more stitches per hour.
This is taking into account thread breaks, bobbin and garment changes, misc. distractions. etc.
Most left chest logos fall between 3000 and 9000 stitches (4000 to 6000 being the average)
Typically flats will sew faster than hats only because you generally have less problems.
I'm not doubting the Barudan is better. But would two I be better off with 2 heads of Amaya or 1 head of Barudan? Or are the Amaya's just really bad machines?
The one thing I do know is that people either really like or dislike the auto upper thread tension on the Amayas. (It's kind of like a mechanic contstantly adjusting your carb under the hood. For better or worse)
If you have never worked with any other machine, you wouldn't know the difference.
I think it comes down to what you are going to be embroidering.
We do lots of winter horse blankets. They are heavy and I need a big table to accomodate all the extra bulk.
This is why I bought this as my newest toy.
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That's no toy my friend, its a work horse to do them there blankets.
Amaya is pretty simple compared to it, but much less expensive and
very well worth it if one doesn't need top of the line.
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Yes, I like my new toy. Way bigger sewing field so I don't have to double hoop. Saves time.
But as for the machines, it all depends what you clients want, if you do nothing but hats and light weight garments, you don't need the heavy duty model.