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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Ripcord on December 31, 2014, 09:36:45 AM
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I have a whole gallon of this (Albatross) that I've had for years. I used to use it, but found the spray adhesive to be so much more convenient that I got in the habit of using that. However, I read so many forum posts by people who like the water based stuff that I'm interested in giving it another try (especially since I have so much of it.).
Here are the problems I have with it (am I the only one?)
1. It takes FOREVER to dry. A flash and hair dryer speed it up a bit, but still it takes quite awhile. Should I be applying it in the evening and then letting it dry overnight?
2. It's nice and sticky when I flash it, but not very sticky when it's cold. Which means it's useful for jobs that require a flash, but not so useful for multicolor wet-on-wet jobs.
I'm going to try the Mean Green cleaner I've read about on the forums to see if that improves my experience...But I can't help thinking I might be missing something or doing something wrong. Does anybody else have the same problems with the adhesive that I do?
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Apply with screen room scrubby (rinse immediately), then flash. Reactivate with ammonia water and bristle brush (takes off the bugs) use cardboard underneath
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It should dry with a 2 second flash or a few minutes just sitting there. I guess you may be applying way too thick of a layer. I know spray tack is convenient around here but only during the setup phase. Once we get to printing it's WB tack all the time. I can't believe someone would find it more convenient during a production run if using it like most of us do. There is a local shop that goes through several cases of spray tack a month and they can't get the WB tack down for some reason. I've even showed the owner how we apply it and how we use it but they still go back to the spray within a week.
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May not seem tacky when cold, but if enough used, plenty of tack after the squeegee presses.
Make sure it is shaken well. If very old, may of lost some usefulness.
Should only take a few minutes to dry if not over applied.
We dilute 50/50 or 60tac/40water. Still better than picking up the can if you can.
-after 20+ years of picking up the can man.
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I started with the stuff from Albatross, but eventually changed to the thicker Tekmar TB-HV.
Of course, many dilute it anyway, so probably a moot point in your case.
At any rate, it worked fine, and if you don't have a flash on, and you have the time to coat earlier, sure, that helps. Otherwise, I've also used a hair dryer.
The stuff is so much nicer than spray, that turning on your otherwise unneeded flash to get it going may still be worthwhile. Remember that once you're good to go, it outlasts spray, and of course is cleaner and healthier.
Except for fleece, it's a no-brainer.
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someone on here suggested food coloring in it, and we've been doing that for a month, and it works awesome!
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I'm a recent convert to WB after 25 years of spray.
Wish I had done it sooner.
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We use CCI Top Bond cut 50/50 with water. We apply it with a squirt bottle and spread it out using a 6" putty knife. Smooth and consistent tack.
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Tekmar TB-10 and I would NEVER go back to spray tack, except for fleece.
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And yet another MEEE TOOOO! for waterbased tac. I think mine is CCI also but I apply mine from a ketchup bottle thinned 50/50 with water and spread it out with a 2" foam paint brush.
I remove the "bugs" (thanks for coining that term, Tony) with water and a Scotch Brite Sponge. I reuse the Scotch Brite and the foam roller many many times.
I usually warm up my platens anyway, so the lower tac when cold isn't an issue for me.
I'm even experimenting with waterbased tac for hoodies. It works, sorta.....
I. HATE. SPRAY. TAC.
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Thanks for all the responses. I'm going to start with clean pallet tape (I applied it over some lint, and that might be a reason that it doesn't want to dry or stick...) and I got my squeeze bottle, Mean Green, and brush today at the grocery store, so I'm ready to try it again.
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Rip,
on fresh pallet paper I often find I need to put down two coats of tekbond to get the fresh pallet up to snuff, one coat is never enough INITIALLY!
We coat (about a 50/50 mixture water and tekbond) then completely flash dry that coat. You will find the first coat will soak into the the pallet paper some as opposed to sitting on top which is like you want, kinda like white ink on a black shirt ;). When completely dry we add a second coating, ( each BTW applerd with a foam paint roller) and flash dry the second coating.
You will find the tac of the second coating is multiple times more effective than the initial coating.
If ultimately you need to dull it down some, ( because you can trap rats with the stick) just sprinkle on some baby powder and brush it around / off with a stiff brush, we use a wall paper brush because it is wide and quite stiff for the purpose.
Give it a try at least on one pallet.
mooseman
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Thanks Mooseman, I watched your video earlier and I'm looking forward to trying this again.
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Thanks for all the responses. I'm going to start with clean pallet tape (I applied it over some lint, and that might be a reason that it doesn't want to dry or stick...) and I got my squeeze bottle, Mean Green, and brush today at the grocery store, so I'm ready to try it again.
Oh yeah. Clean pallet tape. And I didn't know the PARTICULAR brand of WB adhesive. Although Albatross is a big player, surely it's okay. Could yours maybe have frozen at some point?
Don't try to reapply a new coating of adhesive over fuzz. No no no. Remove the fuzz first. Often that's all that's needed anyways. I always defuzz first, warm up the boards which also dries them out, lay down a new coat of WB adhesive, then flash again. For sure on the VERY FIRST application of adhesive to fresh platen paper, heating the platens helps avoid bubbles...or a kind of blistering....caused by the paper absorbing the water content instead of leaving it on top. As Mike said, a 2nd coat is pretty much required on fresh tape.
It SOUNDS like al lot more work than it really is. In practice, it goes pretty fast and saves lots of time over spray and and the requisite cleanup.
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Thanks, I actually use sign vinyl instead of pallet tape, since I always have some lying around. It lies nice and flat and the heat seems to (if anything) shrink it to fit even tighter.
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Vinyl may be the reason it won't stick well. Not absorbent and too slick...
Pallet tape lets more soak in to bond better. The aha moment.
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I recently started using Tekmar and I love it. When I look at all the spray adhesive on and in my machine I wonder what my lungs must look like.
All we need now is a WB solution to fleece.
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We use TeKmar on our platens when printing shirts but i have worries about the sweatshirts pulling up during printing, and we use the web type spray adhesive to backup the Tekmar.
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Thanks for all the advice. I've been using the water based adhesive for a couple of weeks and I'm sold on it (probably already saved $15 in spray cans...)
Keeping the pallets clean is indeed the secret. I got a brush and a bottle of the Mean Green and I use it often. What I've found works well is to scrub the pallet, then wipe it off with a T-shirt and dry it with the flash. It instantly regains all the tack.
From now on the spray cans are only for fleece.
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Rip, you never have to go back to spray. On fleece if you simply clean the pallets as you describe and throw on a new coat of WB you will be able to trap rats with the tac.
You will need to clean the pallets every load to get the super hold but it is better than ruining hoodies.
If ultimately you need to dull it down some just sprinkle on some baby powder and brush it around / off with a stiff brush, we use a wall paper brush because it is wide and quite stiff for the purpose.
Let me know if you want to see a video I can easily demo the ultra hold you can easily get with WB on fleece.
mooseman
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Rip, you never have to go back to spray. On fleece if you simply clean the pallets as you describe and throw on a new coat of WB you will be able to trap rats with the tac.
You will need to clean the pallets every load to get the super hold but it is better than ruining hoodies.
If ultimately you need to dull it down some just sprinkle on some baby powder and brush it around / off with a stiff brush, we use a wall paper brush because it is wide and quite stiff for the purpose.
Let me know if you want to see a video I can easily demo the ultra hold you can easily get with WB on fleece.
mooseman
I did some black hoodies yesterday on my manual with waterbased tack and it didn't work worth a hoot. (CCI Top Bond mixed 50/50 with water...just like usual. Brushed on with a foam brush, also like usual.)
The backart was a large-ish solid white plastisol block, actually a Cattle Branding-Iron logo. Front art was just a left chest and it worked fine, as always... but this backart was a beast to clear the mesh in my 60 degree shop.
Like playing winter rules golf, some adjustments have to be made for cold weather screenprinting, but it was to no avail. These suckers were "picking up" and I needed a 2nd pass for opacity. I NEARLY went back to web spray. I had warmed my ink, platens, and sweatshirts.
No joy....
So it doesn't ALWAYS work to use the Waterbased Adhesive in my experience. I don't do huge runs of hoodies, or I might just have to try something else...the last choice of which would be spraytac. Web spray, with a cardboard "mask" to control overspray, maybe.... I used to do that for hoodies, regardless.
(Hey Mike, give me a call regarding your 3000's. I've hit a shipping hiccup. You should have my phone, but PM me if you don't. Stan)
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I don't thin my Tekmar HV for T's let alone fleece.
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I don't thin my Tekmar HV for T's let alone fleece.
I probably won't try diluting mine either, since full strength it works fine and the stuff is cheap enough as it is (in my case it's free, because I bought it ten years ago and it's just been sitting on the floor all this time...) At the rate I've used it the last two weeks, the gallon I have might well last me another ten years.
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Rip, you never have to go back to spray. On fleece if you simply clean the pallets as you describe and throw on a new coat of WB you will be able to trap rats with the tac.
You will need to clean the pallets every load to get the super hold but it is better than ruining hoodies.
If ultimately you need to dull it down some just sprinkle on some baby powder and brush it around / off with a stiff brush, we use a wall paper brush because it is wide and quite stiff for the purpose.
Let me know if you want to see a video I can easily demo the ultra hold you can easily get with WB on fleece.
mooseman
I saw your video about Mean Green, that's where I learned about it. Do you have another video?
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I don't thin my Tekmar HV for T's let alone fleece.
I haven't tried that brand.
Is it a white liquid that would just remind you of Elmer's Glue? That's what mine looks like, and I decided on day one, it is WAAAY too sticky for tees undiluted....but I maybe should revisit the idea.
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Rip, you never have to go back to spray. On fleece if you simply clean the pallets as you describe and throw on a new coat of WB you will be able to trap rats with the tac.
You will need to clean the pallets every load to get the super hold but it is better than ruining hoodies.
If ultimately you need to dull it down some just sprinkle on some baby powder and brush it around / off with a stiff brush, we use a wall paper brush because it is wide and quite stiff for the purpose.
Let me know if you want to see a video I can easily demo the ultra hold you can easily get with WB on fleece.
mooseman
I saw your video about Mean Green, that's where I learned about it. Do you have another video?
no but I can shoot one pretty easily your call but the WB will hold fleece like iron
mooseman
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I'll give it a try next time. So I should put new adhesive on before I do fleece?
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Mr Moosey,
Count me in on the Mean Green Video too!
Thanks!
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Mr Moosey,
Count me in on the Mean Green Video too!
Thanks!
Mr. Moosey. That was one of the puppets on Captain Kangaroo. (Oh wow, I'm showing my age...)
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...because I bought it ten years ago and it's just been sitting on the floor all this time...) At the rate I've used it the last two weeks, the gallon I have might well last me another ten years.
Ten years?! That's a lot of self ass kicking todo. ;)
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...because I bought it ten years ago and it's just been sitting on the floor all this time...) At the rate I've used it the last two weeks, the gallon I have might well last me another ten years.
Ten years?! That's a lot of self ass kicking todo. ;)
I know, right? When I think of how many spray cans I've bought at $7 each... Back then I used the adhesive for awhile, but the mistake I made was continuously adding more to the pallet as the lint built up until I was printing on an eighth of an inch layer of lint. And it took longer and longer to dry the more the lint soaked it up. And after a couple of months I finally tried to get the whole disgusting layer off the pallet, and needless to say was unsuccessful. That's when I switched to the aerosol.
My new habit of scrubbing the lint off a couple times a day has left my pallet relatively lint free after two weeks and I'm lovin' it (and also kicking myself in the ass...)
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Yeah, I can see that frustration.
Lucky for us, I knew there were people out there loving the stuff so I did my research to figure out what they were doing that made them so happy with it and Mooseman was kind enough to make that video of him cleaning his.... and away we went. I NEVER wanted my equipment to have fur coats. :)
I'll ask my guy how often he thinks he cleans ours off.
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Just another reminder of a tip I've tried to spread for 20 years;
If you have to use spray, keep it a little neater and cleaner. Use a mask on the board.
Easily made of corrogated cardboard, or step up to Coroplast or Masonite
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Thanks Andy!
The above mask is the ONLY way I've done (cursing....) Spray Tac (huck....phooey!) since I read about this in one of your posts. I don't know why I didn't think of it myself. Oh well....
I hate to even type the ***** *** words.
I've got some more hoodies in queue today. White ink, of course. I'ma try me some water based liquid.... NOT reduced with water this time. We'll see if it works as soon as UPS shows up with those cursed things.
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Mr Moosey,
Count me in on the Mean Green Video too!
Thanks!
Mr. Moosey. That was one of the puppets on Captain Kangaroo. (Oh wow, I'm showing my age...)
you are correct the character was Mr. Moose...what was the one thing he was obsessed with? do you remember?
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Ok here is a video of what we do to stick fleece to a pallet with WB adhesive.
mooseman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7brpA_Dn_w&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7brpA_Dn_w&feature=youtu.be)
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And there it is.
Thanks Mike!
What kind/brand of brush did you use to remove the fuzz, after spraying the Simple Green?
I couldn't quite see it. I've been using a sponge backed (green) Scotch Brite pad, soaked in tap water.
I printed the Hoodies From Hades yesterday, but todays batches went smooth with your method. BIG blocks of white ink on black fleece is just gonna be hard, I guess...
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We just use a BS <= shaped brush for general cleaning, I don't think it matters much for the cleaning.
We WEB tack for fleece, for the record.
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Tekmar and/or CCI Prochem is my fav.
Start with CLEAN pallet tape.
I use a small disposable foam paint roller, the mini trim kind. Fits in a quart or 1/2 gallon pail which you can keep covered.
Add adhesive and dilute slightly.
Roll on thick and flash dry.
Scrub built up lint off with a little water and a scrub pad. (yes, just water is fine)
Tip: spray down one pallet and let soak a half minute. Not a ton of water, just mist the pallet. Now spray the next one, while it's soaking scrub the first one. The lint will fly off. Repeat for all pallets, indexing with the flash on.
Tip: wipe the pallet down with an old tee just after your scrub it. ALL the lint will come off. Get the pallet as close to clean as you can each time. Flash dry and re-apply adhesive as needed. (usually every 2 or 3 scrubs you'll need to re-apply) This keeps the overall lint build up way down and the pallet tape will basically last until you do another fleece job.
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Mr Moosey,
Count me in on the Mean Green Video too!
Thanks!
Mr. Moosey. That was one of the puppets on Captain Kangaroo. (Oh wow, I'm showing my age...)
you are correct the character was Mr. Moose...what was the one thing he was obsessed with? do you remember?
Was it Niagra Falls?
youtube.com/watch?v=5LDgpQyuvAo (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5LDgpQyuvAo)
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Mr Moose back in the old days before PBS and color TV would trick Captain K into saying a trip word. Mr Moose would tell riddles and knock-knock jokes that would result in hundreds of ping pong balls falling from above, and hitting the Captain on the head.
The Captain would be frustrated and Mr. Moose would be mesmerized as the balls bounced on the counter. Your are correct sir Niagara Falls ;)
mooseman
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And there it is.
Thanks Mike!
What kind/brand of brush did you use to remove the fuzz, after spraying the Simple Green?
I couldn't quite see it. I've been using a sponge backed (green) Scotch Brite pad, soaked in tap water.
I printed the Hoodies From Hades yesterday, but todays batches went smooth with your method. BIG blocks of white ink on black fleece is just gonna be hard, I guess...
Hi Stan,
the brush is just like this one, about 10 inches long x 2 1/2 inches wide with stiff bristles.
mooseman
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you are correct the character was Mr. Moose...what was the one thing he was obsessed with? do you remember?
Last time I watched the show I was about five...but I remember Mr. Moose cracking knock-knock jokes and the speedy Rabbit ripping off carrots all the time...There was also the bear that played the drums LOL.